Richard Sherman - Thug?

[bhsup]

That dude just earned another subscriber!

 

[Bulldog Bats]

I continue to argue with the concept the "thug" equals "African American". Prior to this incident, look up thug and football, and you get
- the fan assaults at NFL games;
- European football/soccer houligan fan violence;
- Oakland Raiders, whose patriarch was Al Davis.

They got called thugs because of their attitudes and behavior, not the color of their skin.

 

[Evie]

Thug doesn't equal African American.

There are things that will get a white person called a thug. But in this case, thug is still being used in a racist way, because it's used against an african-american over something that would never get a white person called a thug.

And that's the issue here. The fact that people jump at the "thug" accusation much more easily if you are black than if you are white.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

If Sherman were white, I'd still call him out on his behavior. Although white or black, would probably use punk rather than thug.

 

[JollyRoger]

Many of those calling Sherman a thug over this would call a white player acting the same way "passionate about the game." It is part of the lunch pailing that goes on with sports.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

And yet here I am, an American, who has not had a clue about it meaning anything of the sort. No, I do not pay any attention to any sports media at all beyond watching games. Does that mean I am not an American? When I hear thug, to be honest the first thing that pops into my mind is Tony Soprano, not a Seattle Seahawks player.

I don't believe I accused anyone of anything, except non-Americans of not understanding the American lexicon. That doesn't mean people who don't know it are not American.

Honestly, I feel like I should still be able to use thug as it has always been used and screw anyone who thinks I mean anything else. If they want to ask for clarification, sure, no problemo, but I am not going to be denied the use of a perfectly apt word if I want to call a thug a thug.

You believe in personal responsibility, right? Well words have power, and you have to own up to the responsibility of your words when you use them. Words carry connotations, both historical and current, and word choice continues to forward misconceptions and meanings which those words have come to bear. Just as all words once had innocent meanings, like negro (and other related N words for Blacks) from the Spanish word for the color black), and Redskin from the color of the Native American skin, or as a female dog (which it is still used as a technical term within veterinary fields), but that doesn't give you free license to call Blacks negroes, or Native Americans redskins, or women es, because that word doesn't have that meaning to you. Thug is no different. It's not your fault you were ignorant of its more evolved meaning, but now you are aware, and it behooves you to behave responsibly in your choice of words, because they affect others, regardless of your intent.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

I don't agree. Find me an example. I am not sure I can think of something similar, but:

1. When Clemens blew up and threw the bat at Piazza, he was villified.
2. Marc Gastnieau was considered an idiot by all but the most rabid Jet fans for his sack dances.
3. Mark Avery, from the NHL has been called a thug and otherwise for his taking of cheap shots on the rink.

The worst part is he made it seem like he made the greatest play in the game. Heck, he only knocked the ball away. He did not even give credit to the other player who made the interception.

 

[Hygro]

I continue to argue with the concept the "thug" equals "African American". Prior to this incident, look up thug and football, and you get
- the fan assaults at NFL games;
- European football/soccer houligan fan violence;
- Oakland Raiders, whose patriarch was Al Davis.

They got called thugs because of their attitudes and behavior, not the color of their skin.

Three examples you gave:
1) people attacking people. That's thuggish.
2) people attacking people. Also thuggish.
3) I live and grew up in Raider's territory, and thuggish folk around here are disproportionately Raider's fans. The team brand cultivates this, probably more so when it was in LA than in Oakland (not coincidentally as thug-glorification is a commercial media thing, and Oakland doesn't have a very commercial culture) so this one gets a very borderline pass.

None of those are similar to Sherman's act.

If Sherman were white, I'd still call him out on his behavior. Although white or black, would probably use punk rather than thug.

Right. So why are you defending the racists who rally around the misuse (or deliberate theft) of the word thug?

You believe in personal responsibility, right? Well words have power, and you have to own up to the responsibility of your words when you use them. Words carry connotations, both historical and current, and word choice continues to forward misconceptions and meanings which those words have come to bear. Just as all words once had innocent meanings, like negro (and other related N words for Blacks) from the Spanish word for the color black), and Redskin from the color of the Native American skin, or as a female dog (which it is still used as a technical term within veterinary fields), but that doesn't give you free license to call Blacks negroes, or Native Americans redskins, or women es, because that word doesn't have that meaning to you. Thug is no different. It's not your fault you were ignorant of its more evolved meaning, but now you are aware, and it behooves you to behave responsibly in your choice of words, because they affect others, regardless of your intent.

This just means don't call a black person a thug unless they are actually a thug, like crowbar wielding muggers for hire, and don't call a white or otherwise person a thug because their behavior reminds you of a black person for whatever reason. We can still use the word thug to mean thug.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

Those were as close as I could come to Sherman's actions - find me something closer, and I'll listen.

I agree that "thug" is being mis-used, and that punk would be more appropriate. I just don't see the racial motivation. I think if he were white, and said the same things, with the same demeanor, he would be treated the same.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

This just means don't call a black person a thug unless they are actually a thug, like crowbar wielding muggers for hire, and don't call a white or otherwise person a thug because their behavior reminds you of a black person for whatever reason. We can still use the word thug to mean thug.

I'm not sure that I agree.

 

[Evie]

"As close to" in this case meaning "Not anywhere near, but I can't find an example of someone white being called a thug for doing what Sherman did,"

 

[Formaldehyde]

They got called thugs because of their attitudes and behavior, not the color of their skin.

Trayvon Martin for merely standing out of the rain while black - thug.

Anonymous people getting a black toddler to cuss for a Facebook video - thugs.

Sherman acting in a manner than made some whites uncomfortable - thug.

WND: Why liberals foster a black 'thug culture'


Link to video.

As a result of the movie industry's practices, young black males have become a disposable commodity that help to further the modern black-thug stereotype.

This has created a cycle that in turn helps to sustain the stereotype of black skinned males as violent individuals first, humans second.

 

[bhsup]

Cheezy, just because some sports writers or whoever try to use a word wrongly doesn't change the word. Now, if in a couple of decades its continued use like this becomes mainstream as it did when gay started changing meaning, then I'll adjust. Until then as far as I am concerned, anyone using thug in a racial way is on the wrong side of the word and -they- need to take some personal responsibility and quit doing that.

 

[Evie]

The idea that we should stop using thug is laughable.

The idea that some people will label black people thug at the drop of a hat (or the wearing of a hoodie, as the case may be), though, is somethign we need to own up to, all of us. And it's somethign we need to question in ourselves when calling other people out on their actions- "Have I ever called out a white person on doing this? If not, is it because I never met one? Would I do it? Am I using double standards?"

Because, while I'm sure most of us go out of our ways to avoid being consciously racist, that doesn't mean we're free of subconscious racism. It's why taking a critical look when you use the word "Thug" toward a black person to make sure you're not letting subconscious racism seep through is important.

Ultimately, that's the issue here. A subconscious racist that most if not all of us suffer from, and that we need to be constantly watching out for at the conscious level.

 

[Zack]

Those were as close as I could come to Sherman's actions - find me something closer, and I'll listen.

I agree that "thug" is being mis-used, and that punk would be more appropriate. I just don't see the racial motivation. I think if he were white, and said the same things, with the same demeanor, he would be treated the same.

Look at Richard Sherman, what a punk! You'd be pissed at Crabtree too after that.

 

[Berzerker]

I don't think anybody is arguing that a violent criminal shouldn't be called a "thug" if you wish to do so. But using the term to refer to those who are not even convicted of any crime is an entirely different matter.

If someone walks up and attacks you they're a thug and you dont need a jury to tell you that

Trayvon Martin for merely standing out of the rain while black - thug.

Zimmerman didn't call Martin a thug and he was not standing in the rain

 

[Bulldog Bats]

My reaction was more for how he acted after that, in his interviews.

 

[Zack]

My reaction was more for how he acted after that, in his interviews.

For being mad that Crabtree shoved him in the face after Sherman tried to congratulate him? What an awful human being.

 

[Formaldehyde]

If someone walks up and attacks you they're a thug and you dont need a jury to tell you that

Again, Zimmerman falsely stereotyped Martin as being a criminal long before lying about being "attacked" by him.

Zimmerman didn't call Martin a thug and he was not standing in the rain

Some think Zimmerman said "thug". Others think he said a racist slur instead, including the Examiner, a right-wing publication. Take your pick. And he was definitely portrayed as a "thug" afterwards by the usual suspects.

I know Martin wasn't standing in the rain. He was merely standing OUT of the rain while black, as I stated above. Zimmerman claimed there was "something wrong with him" before he did anything even remotely suspicious, and despite Zimmerman's lies to the contrary.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

No, for making everything about him and talking trash about the other players. I think he was acting immature and like a punk.

And frankly, I don't think he was congratulating Crabtree - I think he was rubbing the loss in his face. Crabtree never should have shoved him - he should have just walked away.

Obviously neither of us are going to change the other's opinion.