RifE 1.20 Ideas, Requests, and Feedback

[adecoy95]

is it intended for the archos to have strength 12 spider swarms by turn 20?

 

[Sarisin]

I'm also seeing some bizarre things like this. The Svartalfar with Rangers before Turn 100. The Mechanos with Hand Gunners around Turn 75. Champions and iron weapons appearing in games before Turn 100. The Illians built Wilboman exactly on Turn 67. These really shocked me especially since they always build that stupid Samhain from the get-go.

I am playing at Normal speed and I just don't get these early stronger units UNLESS the AI is very lucky popping goody huts or something. I play at Emperor and I know the goody huts I hit for tech usually give me only 40 beakers or thereabouts. I had one the other day that gave me 1 beaker!

Maybe they are beelining certain techs to get these early stronger units and maybe that helps keep them in the game against uber-animal units. But, still, I rarely get units like this until much later in the game.

This is one reason I like being able to capture animals to compete with the AI stronger units showing up very quickly.

And, I am always mystified when you see something like Arthuras Thorne founding ROK on Turn 62.

 

[adecoy95]

its probably because of your difficulty settinng, what im referring to is from player control

the archos is a pretty cool faction, but they should not have a 10% chance after every combat to have the spiders turned into a spider swarm, couldent it be tied to a tech, like the other animal factions animals?

 

[Valkrionn]

They no longer do. Looking at Vermicious's updated files now; No animals (but Hamsters, apparently. ) have the ability to upgrade post combat. Instead, all upgrades are done via spell, and only when the animal has aged enough (rely on age promotions like Jotnar; 100, 150, 200, 300).

Lots of other changes in store as well.

 

[odalrick]

Instead, all upgrades are done via spell

Why by spell rather than automatic?

 

[Valkrionn]

Why by spell rather than automatic?

How exactly would it be done automatically? The animals do not have cities where they can upgrade normally. Upgrading via combat doesn't work, as it leads to strong animals too early. Any other option?

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Why by spell rather than automatic?

The spell is a convenience that allows me to do it all in XML. Human players will never see or use the spell.

What you will see is animals that have been allowed to survive and wander transform to bigger, nastier versions. The current rate at which that will happen is a first draft...I will probably adjust based on tester feedback.

 

[Sarisin]

I'm anxious to see how this will work. Are you saying that these aged, bigger and nastier animals will still be capturable?

If so, I think this will be a lot of fun. Again, the strategy (as it is now with Animals, Orthus, etc.) would be to use lesser units to weaken the 'beast' and then, capture/kill it. Now, you wouldn't go and give them all cannibalize would you.

I agree that often animals get promoted to a more powerful version too easily. However, I currently have a strength 3 Lizard with more than 100 XP -figure that one out! I'd still like to see a CHANCE of a surprise upgrade based on combat. Oh, make it 1% or something.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

I'm anxious to see how this will work. Are you saying that these aged, bigger and nastier animals will still be capturable?

If so, I think this will be a lot of fun. Again, the strategy (as it is now with Animals, Orthus, etc.) would be to use lesser units to weaken the 'beast' and then, capture/kill it. Now, you wouldn't go and give them all cannibalize would you.

I agree that often animals get promoted to a more powerful version too easily. However, I currently have a strength 3 Lizard with more than 100 XP -figure that one out! I'd still like to see a CHANCE of a surprise upgrade based on combat. Oh, make it 1% or something.

They will eventually become beasts, but it takes a very long time. So...always capturable, but more difficult as time goes on.

 

[adecoy95]

will they age after they have been captured?

 

[Vermicious Knid]

will they age after they have been captured?

Yes...but you won't be able to do anything triggered on age. All of that is limited to the animal civ.


There are more animal changes that Valk hasn't touched on. Suffice it to say that strategies based on animal capture will require some adjustment.

 

[Valkrionn]

Yeah, gonna keep the rest as a surprise. Testers will be getting the files soon.

 

[adecoy95]

well as long as i can play with the archos without feeling like im cheating, i will be happy

 

[odalrick]

How exactly would it be done automatically? The animals do not have cities where they can upgrade normally. Upgrading via combat doesn't work, as it leads to strong animals too early. Any other option?

The way I do it is place an upgrade effect in the PyPerTurn of a promotion that is acquired when the unit should upgrade.

Excerpt from Golem Workshops:

Spoiler :

PromotionInfos:

<PromotionInfo>		<!-- Turn Back to Wood Golem -->			
    <Type>PROMOTION_TURN_BACK_TO_WOOD_GOLEM</Type>
    <Description>TXT_KEY_PROMOTION_TURN_BACK_TO_WOOD_GOLEM</Description>
    <PromotionPrereqOr1>PROMOTION_WORKSHOP_WOOD_GOLEM</PromotionPrereqOr1>
    <PromotionPrereq>PROMOTION_WORKSHOP_CONTRACT_ENDED</PromotionPrereq>
    <bEffectProm>1</bEffectProm>
    <bAutoAcquire>1</bAutoAcquire>
    <bMustMaintain>1</bMustMaintain>
    <bNoXP>1</bNoXP>
    <PrereqbAllowNULLUnitCombat>1</PrereqbAllowNULLUnitCombat>
    <PrereqUnits>
        <PrereqUnit>UNIT_WORKSHOP_GOLEM</PrereqUnit>
    </PrereqUnits>
    <bGraphicalOnly>1</bGraphicalOnly>
    <Button>Modules\NormalModules\Golem_Workshops\art\golem_workshops.dds</Button>
    <PyPerTurn>pCaster.cast(gc.getInfoTypeForString('SPELL_BECOME_WOOD_GOLEM'))</PyPerTurn>
</PromotionInfo>

SpellInfos:

<SpellInfo>			<!-- Become Wood Golem -->
    <Type>SPELL_BECOME_WOOD_GOLEM</Type>
    <Description>TXT_KEY_SPELL_BECOME_WOOD_GOLEM</Description>
    <Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_SPELL_BECOME_WOOD_GOLEM_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
    <TechPrereq>TECH_NEVER</TechPrereq>
    <bDisplayWhenDisabled>0</bDisplayWhenDisabled>
    <ConvertUnitType>UNIT_WOOD_GOLEM</ConvertUnitType>
    <AddPromotionType1>PROMOTION_CLEAR_WORKSHOP_CONTRACT</AddPromotionType1>
    <bBuffCasterOnly>1</bBuffCasterOnly>
    <PyRequirement>False</PyRequirement>
    <bGraphicalOnly>1</bGraphicalOnly>
    <Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Wood Golem.dds</Button>
</SpellInfo>

The spell is a convenience that allows me to do it all in XML. Human players will never see or use the spell.

If upgrading animals become an Animal civ only thing, it doesn't matter that they have to cast a spell. Only if humans could chose not to upgrade would it be weird.

It does beg the question of what will happen to Archos Baby Spiders, though.

 

[Valkrionn]

Baby spiders have a promotion which is similar to what you displayed; Involves python as it's a rand, but they've had it for a LONG time. Going to try to set it up so that HN units with the bAnimal tag display the animal flag; Archos will get HN UU's of the spiders, able to upgrade. Not sure if it will be normally or via combat.

 

[xienwolf]

Easier than making the HN animals show animal flag would be to have the flag just fail to show at all for HN units, and remove the Leader Name from their mouseover text.

 

[Valkrionn]

Easier than making the HN animals show animal flag would be to have the flag just fail to show at all for HN units, and remove the Leader Name from their mouseover text.

What would I modify for that?

Though then again, the whole point of HN is for it to look like it could be a barb; Removing the flag means you know for SURE it's not a barb.

 

[Valkrionn]

I had an idea about salvaging the uber-strength animals, in an attempt to keep the 'world's a dangerous place feel' and maybe bring back some of what Kael's talking about in this thread. Specifically:



What about, instead of having the powerful creatures free to rampage around the map as they please, you turn their lairs into cultural zones like forts, and the powerful creatures are only able to move around in their cultural zones/territory? Weaker units, under the guise of having to "go out to find territory" would be the only ones free to leave the borders. If a weak animal unit somehow survives long enough, maybe to the point of becoming a beast (or later still if balance requires it), the unit forms a lair and a new territory region for that creature is spawned.

Inside these territory regions would roam either packs or strong (e.g. the currently bugged out strength, maybe a little weaker) single units to simulate these areas being extremely savage and requiring an organized effort to clear and make safe. These territory regions should also take precedence over your cultural borders, showing that it takes an organized effort to make the region safe (and to prevent potential bugs like creatures getting pushed into your territory, then free to run about as they please, when they should not be able to). Owing to this, lairs should probably not spawn for the first couple of turns, and they should not spawn within several tiles of cultural borders either, though the intent is to make it feel like these lairs and regions have been around for centuries, before civilizations begin to re-emerge.

This might also be applied to barb units, although I guess cities work fine there. (On the flip side, if barbs only use forts, you can allow players to populate the fort after conquering it, turning it into a city, maybe with some initial defensive buildings.) In this case, though the barb population is very dense in their "cultural" radius or territory (simulating a very barbaric region that needs to be pacified), they send out raiding parties whose strength is based on the world's tech level. Depending on how much lag it induces the units inside the territory should fight themselves and (very) slowly gain in strength, as you'd imagine barbarians would do when they're not out raiding. The raiding parties would be independent and would be more akin to the current flavor of barbs who venture out and invade your territory.

This allows you to keep some of the stronger units around, like minotaur and hill giants (or sabertooth tigers or giant scorpions), but they are limited to their territories. Weaker units would be pushed out, the ones who need to establish their own territory, and they are the ones you need to defend against.

From what little I know of such things, I suspect it would be difficult to use map-generated features (like mountains and rivers, as Kael mentions) to limit territories, but that would be a neat addition if it is possible.

Hmm... That's a very intriguing idea.

While doing it exactly as you describe would be a bit complex (Would need to use the leash mechanic, so either lots of python or lots of DLL work moving it into XML), it would probably be quite simple to add a new tag to units/promotions which forces a unit to remain in it's civ's territory, and enabling lairs as 'forts'. We could then have strong animals wandering the 'Wilderness', but they'd be able to wander the full extent of the 'wilderness' instead of just that around their own lair.

This post had nothing to do with my moving the Leash mechanic into XML. Nothing at all. Honest.

 

[Palius84]

The Great Generals as captains is a great addition to any mod. I would just wish that someone would take is a step further and try to be do what the people in The History of Three Kingdoms Mod did! (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7610520) They added an interface for choosing which units to add to the leaders. Quite a few other things. I wish this mod would be able to include some of those wonderful things. This modmod is a wonderful addition to the already great parent mods.

 

[xienwolf]

To remove the flags and leader names, you would search the DLL for VisualOwner. That shouldn't get you too many other results than those which are important. And I am relatively certain I remembered the function name properly

Yes, no flag means you know it isn't a barbarian unit, unless barbarians semi-frequently also have HN status, which would be the case for most HN animal types.

I suppose that since the barbarians are unable to spawn anything which isn't specifically listed as a valid unit for them, you could fairly easily check which barbarian civ would possibly spawn the HN unit, and show the appropriate civ as the visible owner. Or just a unitinfos tag which states who they should appear to belong to if ever HN for a simple solution.