[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Lord Xavius]

Wait... was there a leak I missed?

Did someone leak Celts and Zulus?

Someone who claims to be responsible for translating Civilopedia entries into Chinese says (on a Chinese forum) that the Zulu are in the game. They also made a random reference to Braveheart in the same post.

 

[God of Kings]

Someone who claims to be responsible for translating Civilopedia entries into Chinese says (on a Chinese forum) that the Zulu are in the game. They also made a random reference to Braveheart in the same post.

That leak should be taken with a large grain of salt. We will have a much better idea tomorrow.

 

[Sagax]

Someone who claims to be responsible for translating Civilopedia entries into Chinese says (on a Chinese forum) that the Zulu are in the game. They also made a random reference to Braveheart in the same post.

He does QA for localization. Slightly different thing.

That leak should be taken with a large grain of salt. We will have a much better idea tomorrow.

Not necessarily. They don’t have to release Zulu tomorrow for it to be potentially true.

 

[God of Kings]

He does QA for localization. Slightly different thing.

Not necessarily. They don’t have to release Zulu tomorrow for it to be potentially true.

We will wait and see then.

 

[Disgustipated]

Not much for clues in today's English Wikipedia. Still, there are 2 references to Italy. An opera that debuted in Venice, and on this day section mention of Galileo.

There is still the possibility of Italy, right? No one has seen any of their cities on live stream I believe. But if the Celts are in, I doubt Italy would be in. I'd actually prefer Italy over the Celts, but we'll see.

 

[Phrozen]

Statuary typically depicts him as a knight in armor. His coat of arms was a bow though.

The kilt hadn't been invented yet in Wallace's time. He was a fairly wealthy land owner and minor nobility so he would have had armor.

 

[Zaarin]

The kilt hadn't been invented yet in Wallace's time. He was a fairly wealthy land owner and minor nobility so he would have had armor.

The great kilt was definitely around (which is more like a short toga than the modern kilt), but yeah, he would have worn armor.

 

[KevinHann]

Don't take this wrong, guys, but of all the exciting possible civs I find it odds modern Italy is so popular. Why is that? Is it because it was a popular civ in previous iterations of the game and people have grown to accept and enjoy it? Other than that I personally find it hard to appreciate it over other Italy-related civs like Venice or Genoa, and particularly against other European civs, considering it is so cramped and space for new additions will limit them to just a few. On top of it we do have Rome already.

I'm not having a go at those who want it in, nor am I going to argue against having it included at length, I'm just curious where the popularity stems from?

 

[Guandao]

Don't take this wrong, guys, but of all the exciting possible civs I find it odds modern Italy is so popular. Why is that? Is it because it was a popular civ in previous iterations of the game and people have grown to accept and enjoy it? Other than that I personally find it hard to appreciate it over other Italy-related civs like Venice or Genoa, and particularly against other European civs, considering it is so cramped and space for new additions will limit them to just a few. On top of it we do have Rome already.

I'm not having a go at those who want it in, nor am I going to argue against having it included at length, I'm just curious where the popularity stems from?

Maybe some people don't want multiple Civs based on Italian Renaissance city-states? And would rather fold them into a pan-Italian one?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Don't take this wrong, guys, but of all the exciting possible civs I find it odds modern Italy is so popular. Why is that? Is it because it was a popular civ in previous iterations of the game and people have grown to accept and enjoy it? Other than that I personally find it hard to appreciate it over other Italy-related civs like Venice or Genoa, and particularly against other European civs, considering it is so cramped and space for new additions will limit them to just a few. On top of it we do have Rome already.

I'm not having a go at those who want it in, nor am I going to argue against having it included at length, I'm just curious where the popularity stems from?

When I say Italy, like many others, I want a Renaissance themed Italy Civ, specifically because I don't necessarily want to play as a single city-state.
With multiple leaders you can have a leader from Florence, Genoa, Venice, or Milan with different abilities and playstyles. Same thing goes with Pericles from Athens and Gorgo from Sparta.

 

[God of Kings]

Maybe some people don't want multiple Civs based on Italian Renaissance city-states? And would rather fold them into a pan-Italian one?

A pan-Italian civ would work with multiple leaders representing different Italian city-states.

 

[Phoenix1595]

When I say Italy, like many others, I want a Renaissance themed Italy Civ, specifically because I don't necessarily want to play as a single city-state.
With multiple leaders you can have a leader from Florence, Genoa, Venice, or Milan with different abilities and playstyles. Same thing goes with Pericles from Athens and Gorgo from Sparta.

I agree with @Alexander's Hetaroi -- I have no interest in a civ depicting modern Italy. Rather, a truly viable idea is a civ depicting the various Renaissance city-states (or even just throw us one, a la Civ5 Venice). The Greek multi-leader model is perfect to roll in Medici Florence, Sforza/Visconti Milan, Doria Genoa, and Venice into one civ slot.

 

[WillowBrook]

Don't take this wrong, guys, but of all the exciting possible civs I find it odds modern Italy is so popular. Why is that? Is it because it was a popular civ in previous iterations of the game and people have grown to accept and enjoy it? Other than that I personally find it hard to appreciate it over other Italy-related civs like Venice or Genoa, and particularly against other European civs, considering it is so cramped and space for new additions will limit them to just a few. On top of it we do have Rome already.

I'm not having a go at those who want it in, nor am I going to argue against having it included at length, I'm just curious where the popularity stems from?

Some people who expect Italy don't necessarily prefer it over other possibilities, but think that the lack of any Italian city states is good evidence for its inclusion. Genoa also appeared in a list of civs in a game file at one point, suggesting they were thinking of doing something with the peninsula post-Rome.

 

[Thormodr]

Both the Scots and the Zulu have warriors who traditionally wear kilts.

The kilt was invented by the English so that the Scotts could work in their charcoal plants.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Some people who expect Italy don't necessarily prefer it over other possibilities, but think that the lack of any Italian city states is good evidence for its inclusion. Genoa also appeared in a list of civs in a game file at one point, suggesting they were thinking of doing something with the peninsula post-Rome.

I prefer it over other inclusions, at least out of all the other European ones.

 

[KevinHann]

When I say Italy, like many others, I want a Renaissance themed Italy Civ, specifically because I don't necessarily want to play as a single city-state.
With multiple leaders you can have a leader from Florence, Genoa, Venice, or Milan with different abilities and playstyles. Same thing goes with Pericles from Athens and Gorgo from Sparta.

I see, with that clarification I can absolutely agree and I'd support the idea. It was not what I understood by "Italy civ" when I saw it thrown around a few times. Is there a common English term adopted that covers the Renaissance city states that could be used as a name, avoiding possible confusion with modern Italy? I've felt uneasy with Greece for the same reason, though I do appreciate the connection is clear and de facto the same principle could work with Italy regarding the city states. It's just that Greece is widely associated with the ancient city states while there are many more stages Italy has gone through that could be associated with the name.

Of course that could just be me, don't kill me with stones if you find my concern trivial or negligible

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I see, with that clarification I can absolutely agree and I'd support the idea. It was not what I understood by "Italy civ" when I saw it thrown around a few times. Is there a common English term adopted that covers the Renaissance city states that could be used as a name, avoiding possible confusion with modern Italy? I've felt uneasy with Greece for the same reason, though I do appreciate the connection is clear and de facto the same principle could work with Italy regarding the city states. It's just that Greece is widely associated with the ancient city states while there are many more stages Italy has gone through that could be associated with the name.

Of course that could just be me, don't kill me with stones if you find my concern trivial or negligible

I'm not sure of a different name they could use for that. However me being a history nerd whenever I hear or think of Italy, my mind goes to "it was the birthplace of the Renaissance" and much of Italy today was built off of that and not "that's the nation that Garibaldi united and Mussolini ruled". Same thing with Greece, as in I think of Homer, birthplace of democracy, and the Peloponnesian War whenever I hear that word. But that's just me.

 

[KevinHann]

A history nerd might hold me for this, but my mind goes to Rome first. Perhaps that's where my own confusion stems from as there is no such issue with Greece.

It is a trivial concern anyway, thank you for satisfying my curiosity

 

[Phoenix1595]

I see, with that clarification I can absolutely agree and I'd support the idea. It was not what I understood by "Italy civ" when I saw it thrown around a few times. Is there a common English term adopted that covers the Renaissance city states that could be used as a name, avoiding possible confusion with modern Italy? I've felt uneasy with Greece for the same reason, though I do appreciate the connection is clear and de facto the same principle could work with Italy regarding the city states. It's just that Greece is widely associated with the ancient city states while there are many more stages Italy has gone through that could be associated with the name.

Of course that could just be me, don't kill me with stones if you find my concern trivial or negligible

The Italian Republics is the best I can think of.

 

[liv]

When I hear Italian Republic I think of the territory that France controlled during the Revolution
(When I hear "Italy" I think of pasta)