[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[shaglio]

As someone who likes moderately large cities, I like seeing big numbers there. It's hard to get used to them not being there. On Quill's stream, I couldn't even tell what size his cities were.

I haven't had the chance to watch the streams yet . . . where are the city sizes located now?

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Chops look unchanged as jungle in Quill youtube video showed jungle with 14-14 yield during the early game.

 

[Disgustipated]

I haven't had the chance to watch the streams yet . . . where are the city sizes located now?

On the right side, just to the left of the current production icon

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I noticed that we now get a notificaiton about what happens when we get beaten to a wonder.

As Quill once again got beaten to a Petra.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

So I got home from work to find out that there is no hint today, but instead new preview livestreams. I guess it's not as bad as last Monday.

 

[Sagax]

So I got home from work to find out that there is no hint today, but instead new preview livestreams. I guess it's not as bad as last Monday.

Considering how much we have found out, we might as well call it the official Zulu teaser

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Considering how much we have found out, we might as well call it the official Zulu teaser

I found out on the thread before I got to watch.

 

[AvianBritish]

Brazil's new UD Water Park replacement - Copacabana:

Spoiler :

Eh... this is the worst new feature for me. I like things being standardised and rules followed. I understand Rome secretly getting the Roman Fort in addition to it's Bath but Brazil getting two unique districts is completely and utterly immersion breaking for me... I'm not one for complaining about little things but... You can always build a a Street Carnival; you are never "shafted" unless you settle on a 1 tile island. Why don't they just let Brazil build both Street Carnivals AND "Water Parks" like England can build both Royal Navy Dockyards AND Commercial Hubs. Or perhaps England could also be given "Royal Mint" too as as a unique commercial hub just in case England get's "shafted" being land locked?

I hate those who whinge about silly little things, but I feel like I've now joined that club. I'm not exaggerating when I say that Brazil getting two UIs made my day from ecstatic to it's disgusted...

 

[conorbebe]

If you're not incredibly disgruntled by insignificant details, you're not truly British

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Brazil's new UD Water Park replacement - Copacabana:

Spoiler :

Brazil just got better for one tile island cities. Not that you would do that with any other Civ in the first place except Indonesia.

 

[Sagax]

Eh... this is the worst new feature for me. I like things being standardised and rules followed. I understand Rome secretly getting the Roman Fort in addition to it's Bath but Brazil getting two unique districts is completely and utterly immersion breaking for me... I'm not one for complaining about little things but... You can always build a a Street Carnival; you are never "shafted" unless you settle on a 1 tile island. Why don't they just let Brazil build both Street Carnivals AND "Water Parks" like England can build both Royal Navy Dockyards AND Commercial Hubs. Or perhaps England could also be given "Royal Mint" too as as a unique commercial hub just in case England get's "shafted" being land locked?

I hate those who whinge about silly little things, but I feel like I've now joined that club. I'm not exaggerating when I say that Brazil getting two UIs made my day from ecstatic to it's disgusted...

1. CH and harbors are completely different districts. Trade route and gold for adjacency are literally the only things they share in common.

2. You need to compare this with other civs under the same circumstances. If England is landlocked, then it can’t build harbors - neither can any other civ. If Brazil is on a 1-tile island without Copacabana, then it is shafted completely - while every other civ can bypass the amenity problem with Water Parks. Sure, this is an extreme case, but not any more far fetched than England having zero access to water while having coastal bias - unless you play on Pangaea, but then you should know what you’re signing up for by playing as England on Pangaea.

3. Entertainment Complex is just underwhelming in comparison with other districts. Not the end of the world if Brazil get a buff in this aspect.

 

[AvianBritish]

1. CH and harbors are completely different districts. Trade route and gold for adjacency are literally the only things they share in common.

2. You need to compare this with other civs under the same circumstances. If England is landlocked, then it can’t build harbors - neither can any other civ. If Brazil is on a 1-tile island without Copacabana, then it is shafted completely - while every other civ can bypass the amenity problem with Water Parks. Sure, this is an extreme case, but not any more far fetched than England having zero access to water while having coastal bias - unless you play on Pangaea, but then you should know what you’re signing up for by playing as England on Pangaea.

3. Entertainment Complex is just underwhelming in comparison with other districts. Not the end of the world if Brazil get a buff in this aspect.

I still would prefer the ability to build both a Street Carnival and a Water Park in each city rather then giving Brazil two separate districts (although they are practically the same).

It just doesn't seem right for official content; it's because of little rule-breaks like this that don't follow the status quo are why I don't use mods.

 

[conorbebe]

2. You need to compare this with other civs under the same circumstances. If England is landlocked, then it can’t build harbors - neither can any other civ. If Brazil is on a 1-tile island without Copacabana, then it is shafted completely - while every other civ can bypass the amenity problem with Water Parks. Sure, this is an extreme case, but not any more far fetched than England having zero access to water while having coastal bias - unless you play on Pangaea, but then you should know what you’re signing up for by playing as England on Pangaea.

But nobody is suggesting Brazil shouldn't also be able to build Water Parks. I don't see how Brazil is getting shafted when they are at worst on-level with every other civ in the situation that you describe.

It just doesn't seem right for official content; it's because of little rule-breaks like this that don't follow the status quo are why I don't use mods.

I can relate. Too much.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I think that Dark Ages should be more punishing.

Developers clearly stated why they don't want Dark Ages to be more punishing.
Also, it's only ok to go early dark age. Later on, it would be very painful.

How exactly would Brazil be shafted by this? The Water Park isn't stronger than the Street Carnival.

You can't build Street Carnival in the same city with Water Park. So Brazil would lost ability to build unique district in those cities.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I still would prefer the ability to build both a Street Carnival and a Water Park in each city rather then giving Brazil two separate districts (although they are practically the same).

It just doesn't seem right for official content; it's because of little rule-breaks like this that don't follow the status quo are why I don't use mods.

There are already four Civs that can build two unique units, although that's from leader abilities, so it might not be as big of a stretch. Who knows maybe in the future other civs will get to have another UI by a leader.
The other reasoning is it will give Brazil an incentive to at least build the water park district, where otherwise it wouldn't. Although your reasoning sounds just as good.

 

[AvianBritish]

You can't build Street Carnival in the same city with Water Park. So Brazil would lost ability to build unique district in those cities.

Hence why Brazil should just be able to built both the Street Carnival and Water Park in the same city.

 

[conorbebe]

You can't build Street Carnival in the same city with Water Park. So Brazil would lost ability to build unique district in those cities.

You could make that same argument about a BUNCH of civilisations and their unique infrastructure.

 

[Sagax]

I still would prefer the ability to build both a Street Carnival and a Water Park in each city rather then giving Brazil two separate districts (although they are practically the same).

It just doesn't seem right for official content; it's because of little rule-breaks like this that don't follow the status quo are why I don't use mods.

But nobody is suggesting Brazil shouldn't also be able to build Water Parks. I don't see how Brazil is getting shafted when they are at worst on-level with every other civ in the situation that you describe.

Firaxis shot themselves in the foot when they decided to have Water Parks as a standalone district. And we can argue on this, but their "hard" rule is that EC and WP can't be built together. You are suggesting that Brazil should just be allowed to build both, but how is that any less "rule-breaking" than them having two unique districts that are functionally identical? And let's not forget that in your proposal Brazil is essentially getting double the amenities emanating from one city.

A better question should be why they handled the amenity district aspect the way they did, instead of just allowing EC to be built on water tiles, with mutually exclusive buildings depending on the district placement. But given what we have, the change to Brazil is as reasonable as it can be, even though they stem from a strange underlying design choice.

 

[Greywulf]

Brazil's new UD Water Park replacement - Copacabana:

Spoiler :

Argh...I was hoping that they would have played with one of the last 3 civs/leaders by now. We know who they all are now anyway.. We just want to know their UX's.

 

[Sagax]

Argh...I was hoping that they would have played with one of the last 3 civs/leaders by now. We know who they all are now anyway.. We just want to know their UX's.

Ikanda for Zulu pretty is much confirmed - check out one of the screenshots floating around..