[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[bbbt]

Ugh. God forbid. If we get a male leader for England, let it be Henry V.

I'm not sure he really fits for Civ 6: How many tv shows has he been in that weren't Shakespeare? Henry VIII is featured in like a new show every decade. On the surface, he may seem like a bad fit with the whole 'female leaders' push they are doing, but think of the all the posts featuring of screenshots with him and 6 of the female leaders!? It's like a can't miss marketing opportunity

 

[Ferocitus]

Ugh. God forbid. If we get a male leader for England, let it be Henry V.

What an insipid, predictable choice.
At least they'd be able to get a decent quote or two for Henry V. (My wife and I
watch the two versions - Olivier's and Branagh's - every year when there's
nothing new around.)

No love for more controversial and/or loopy ones? e.g. Richard III, George III,
Matilda or Mary I?

 

[Zaarin]

What an insipid, predictable choice.
At least they'd be able to get a decent quote or two for Henry V. (My wife and I
watch the two versions - Olivier's and Branagh's - every year when there's
nothing new around.)

No love for more controversial and/or loopy ones? e.g. Richard III, George III,
Matilda or Mary I?

I'd love to see Matilda. I'd love to see James I (probably the...safest Stuart choice). I'm probably one of the few who would genuinely like to see Mary Tudor. George III would be...entertaining, at least. Especially when he's addressing trees as the king of France.

 

[Guatenadian]

I know most people think that it will be a European Civ next, but the Americas haven't received any love since the Aztecs. There is a chance that the next Civ will be perhaps an Indigenous Civ due to the lack of them currently.

 

[PhilBowles]

What an insipid, predictable choice.
At least they'd be able to get a decent quote or two for Henry V. (My wife and I
watch the two versions - Olivier's and Branagh's - every year when there's
nothing new around.)

No love for more controversial and/or loopy ones? e.g. Richard III, George III,
Matilda or Mary I?

Matilda wasn't technically an English ruler (she could technically be a German one, as she was Empress of the HRE), and Stephen's not exactly one of our better monarchs.

They could use Richard I (not exactly a non-obvious choice, I'll admit), but if so they'd better have him speak French.

I'd love to see Matilda. I'd love to see James I (probably the...safest Stuart choice). I'm probably one of the few who would genuinely like to see Mary Tudor. George III would be...entertaining, at least. Especially when he's addressing trees as the king of France.

They could use George IV, purely to get Hugh Laurie to voice him in Blackadder form, though I'll admit that could stretch the budget.

I'd be happy with James I.

 

[Zaarin]

I know most people think that it will be a European Civ next, but the Americas haven't received any love since the Aztecs. There is a chance that the next Civ will be perhaps an Indigenous Civ due to the lack of them currently.

That would make me ecstatic (unless it's the Sioux), but I'm not expecting it. I truly, deeply hope there are at least one or two civs indigenous to the Americas, but I wouldn't expect them to be announced second. The first two or three civs have to be the "face of the expansion," after all.

 

[pgm123]

I want him very badly, but I want him given the Alexander treatment, leading the Kingdom of Wessex.

I kind of just want him for England. Seondeok was for Korea and not Silla. Would you really want a different infrastructure, unit, and two abilities?

 

[Zaarin]

I kind of just want him for England. Seondeok was for Korea and not Silla. Would you really want a different infrastructure, unit, and two abilities?

Yes. When I think of Alfred the Great or the Anglo-Saxons, redcoats, sea dogs, and the British Royal Museum aren't exactly what comes to mind.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Ugh. God forbid. If we get a male leader for England, let it be Henry V.

I'd say if we get a second England leader, it's likely to be leader with Longbowmen UU. And this makes Henry V to be top candidate.

However, India is in much more need for alternative leader, so if we have to pick 1, I'd pick 1 for India.

 

[Zaarin]

I'd say if we get a second England leader, it's likely to be leader with Longbowmen UU. And this makes Henry V to be top candidate.

However, India is in much more need for alternative leader, so if we have to pick 1, I'd pick 1 for India.

Agreed. India, Egypt, and France are all higher priority for me--but I'd put England right after them. I really don't care for their choice of Victoria.

 

[PhilBowles]

I kind of just want him for England. Seondeok was for Korea and not Silla. Would you really want a different infrastructure, unit, and two abilities?

Yes, Huscarls were beautiful models in Civ V but only available for a scenario. :-(

Agreed. India, Egypt, and France are all higher priority for me--but I'd put England right after them. I really don't care for their choice of Victoria.

As I've said before I like the choice a lot.

As to the portrayal ... I am not amused. Her hysteria borders on offensive more than a humorous caricature, especially her tendency to denounce people by sneezing at them.

 

[Zaarin]

As I've said before I like the choice a lot.

As to the portrayal ... I am not amused. Her hysteria borders on offensive more than a humorous caricature, especially her tendency to denounce people by sneezing at them.

Indeed. While I'm not terribly familiar with Victoria as compared to Elizabeth, I understand a level-headedness, sense of propriety, and preference for restraining her emotions characterized her (or at least her public persona) even from a young age. Her tantrums and hissyfits seem much more appropriate for Elizabeth I, who was notoriously moody and mercurial.

 

[Guandao]

Indeed. While I'm not terribly familiar with Victoria as compared to Elizabeth, I understand a level-headedness, sense of propriety, and preference for restraining her emotions characterized her (or at least her public persona) even from a young age. Her tantrums and hissyfits seem much more appropriate for Elizabeth I, who was notoriously moody and mercurial.

Philip II's outbursts are also unfitting of his real life personality according to others.

 

[Guatenadian]

I wonder if we might get the Muisca Confederation for South America, not to replace the Inca but to have another South American Indigenous group. I was somewhat surprised to see so many people backing a Gran Colombian Civ. While Bolivar has the personality for Civ and the long-lasting influence, Gran Colombia lasted for just over a decade and should a Civ that lasted for 12 years really be seriously considered?

 

[PhilBowles]

Philip II's outbursts are also unfitting of his real life personality according to others.

Yes, I'd say Phillip's portrayal is the worst in the game so far - but Victoria may be second.

Which has caused me to reflect on something - I used to absolutely loathe the Civ VI leader animations and styles and now somewhat like them ... at least, some of them. I've realised that it's not that I've become more used to or accepting of them - the ones in the vanilla game are, for the most part, simply much worse than the DLC ones (Prince Charming aside).

Philip, Victoria, Mzemba, Peter, Cleopatra, the potato - they're uniformly terrible, with only Roosevelt and Hojo (EDIT: Okay, also Tomyris and both Greeks) of the first batch having any redeeming qualities whatsoever (though Qin's actual animation is better than most once you get past the fact that he's a talking potato in fancy dress).

 

[Guandao]

I wonder if we might get the Muisca Confederation for South America, not to replace the Inca but to have another South American Indigenous group. I was somewhat surprised to see so many people backing a Gran Colombian Civ. While Bolivar has the personality for Civ and the long-lasting influence, Gran Colombia lasted for just over a decade and should a Civ that lasted for 12 years really be seriously considered?

Depends on how much effort Firaxis is willing to take to get the language right (it's extinct today, but decently well-documented by the Spanish). I wouldn't want the Muisca leader to speak Quechua.

 

[Xefjord]

This may be a little off-topic, but this is the rise and fall general thread. I just wanted to comment that I find it interesting how on the r/civ subreddit there was a massive megathread trashing Seondeok's appearance (For not being Korean enough). Then there was another large thread defending her looks (Although I have the top comment on there pointing out why her looks are still wrong and it has almost as many upvotes as the OP's post), then there was a large thread trashing the choice of Seondeok for leading Korea, now there is a massive thread defending the choice of Seondeok to lead Korea. It has really been a learning experience all around.

 

[Guandao]

This may be a little off-topic, but this is the rise and fall general thread. I just wanted to comment that I find it interesting how on the r/civ subreddit there was a massive megathread trashing Seondeok's appearance (For not being Korean enough). Then there was another large thread defending her looks (Although I have the top comment on there pointing out why her looks are still wrong and it has almost as many upvotes as the OP's post), then there was a large thread trashing the choice of Seondeok for leading Korea, now there is a massive thread defending the choice of Seondeok to lead Korea. It has really been a learning experience all around.

That's why I usually avoid reddit nowadays.

 

[Xefjord]

The TL;DR verdict for the whole thing (Based on what received the most up-votes thus far) seems to just be: There are some Koreans that look like Firaxis's model, but its pretty out of the norm and more people are upset than people not upset; so Seondeok's looks should be changed. Seondeok is not the greatest Korean leader, but she isn't that bad either so she doesn't have to be switched out for a different leader.

 

[God of Kings]

This may be a little off-topic, but this is the rise and fall general thread. I just wanted to comment that I find it interesting how on the r/civ subreddit there was a massive megathread trashing Seondeok's appearance (For not being Korean enough). Then there was another large thread defending her looks (Although I have the top comment on there pointing out why her looks are still wrong and it has almost as many upvotes as the OP's post), then there was a large thread trashing the choice of Seondeok for leading Korea, now there is a massive thread defending the choice of Seondeok to lead Korea. It has really been a learning experience all around.

A mod made a comment in the Korea First Look thread that this thread (the General Discussion thread) is the most appropriate thread to discuss Seondeok's depiction and reactions to it.

By the way, I agree that Reddit is toxic, especially large subreddits.