[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Guandao]

I wonder if we might get the Muisca Confederation for South America, not to replace the Inca but to have another South American Indigenous group. I was somewhat surprised to see so many people backing a Gran Colombian Civ. While Bolivar has the personality for Civ and the long-lasting influence, Gran Colombia lasted for just over a decade and should a Civ that lasted for 12 years really be seriously considered?

Depends on how much effort Firaxis is willing to take to get the language right (it's extinct today, but decently well-documented by the Spanish). I wouldn't want the Muisca leader to speak Quechua.

 

[Xefjord]

This may be a little off-topic, but this is the rise and fall general thread. I just wanted to comment that I find it interesting how on the r/civ subreddit there was a massive megathread trashing Seondeok's appearance (For not being Korean enough). Then there was another large thread defending her looks (Although I have the top comment on there pointing out why her looks are still wrong and it has almost as many upvotes as the OP's post), then there was a large thread trashing the choice of Seondeok for leading Korea, now there is a massive thread defending the choice of Seondeok to lead Korea. It has really been a learning experience all around.

 

[Guandao]

This may be a little off-topic, but this is the rise and fall general thread. I just wanted to comment that I find it interesting how on the r/civ subreddit there was a massive megathread trashing Seondeok's appearance (For not being Korean enough). Then there was another large thread defending her looks (Although I have the top comment on there pointing out why her looks are still wrong and it has almost as many upvotes as the OP's post), then there was a large thread trashing the choice of Seondeok for leading Korea, now there is a massive thread defending the choice of Seondeok to lead Korea. It has really been a learning experience all around.

That's why I usually avoid reddit nowadays.

 

[Xefjord]

The TL;DR verdict for the whole thing (Based on what received the most up-votes thus far) seems to just be: There are some Koreans that look like Firaxis's model, but its pretty out of the norm and more people are upset than people not upset; so Seondeok's looks should be changed. Seondeok is not the greatest Korean leader, but she isn't that bad either so she doesn't have to be switched out for a different leader.

 

[God of Kings]

This may be a little off-topic, but this is the rise and fall general thread. I just wanted to comment that I find it interesting how on the r/civ subreddit there was a massive megathread trashing Seondeok's appearance (For not being Korean enough). Then there was another large thread defending her looks (Although I have the top comment on there pointing out why her looks are still wrong and it has almost as many upvotes as the OP's post), then there was a large thread trashing the choice of Seondeok for leading Korea, now there is a massive thread defending the choice of Seondeok to lead Korea. It has really been a learning experience all around.

A mod made a comment in the Korea First Look thread that this thread (the General Discussion thread) is the most appropriate thread to discuss Seondeok's depiction and reactions to it.

By the way, I agree that Reddit is toxic, especially large subreddits.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

A mod made a comment in the Korea First Look thread that this thread (the General Discussion thread) is the most appropriate thread to discuss Seondeok's depiction and reactions to it.

By the way, I agree that Reddit is toxic, especially large subreddits.

I don't think Leif said that? I thought it was you who suggested it? In any event, it would probably be best to move past that particular discussion and accompanying reactions on reddit, youtube, etc., as it has become fairly nasty.

 

[God of Kings]

I don't think Leif said that? I thought it was you who suggested it? In any event, it would probably be best to move past that particular discussion and accompanying reactions on reddit, youtube, etc., as it has become fairly nasty.

I was a little confused.

 

[Kheznik]

I hope we see more "interesting" female leaders with wild personalities. I'd personally like to see an overzealous Lady Xoc, whose devotion to the Maya's crazy religious customs (such as pulling a thorned rope through her pierced tongue) would definitely make for an interesting leader. Idk about y'all but I'm kinda tired of the kind, smiling, dainty princesses we've been getting (Seondeok).



Chick was wild.

 

[Meluhhan]

Why did Australia stole the Dutch colors anyways? Are orange and white relevant colors in Australia?

Historically, mainland Australia was known as New Holland by the Europeans.
Realised this while playing the Outback Tycoon scenario. They have named the continent New Holland in the scenario.

 

[Duckfromstatefarm]

I hope we see more "interesting" female leaders with wild personalities. I'd personally like to see an overzealous Lady Xoc, whose devotion to the Maya's crazy religious customs (such as pulling a thorned rope through her pierced tongue) would definitely make for an interesting leader. Idk about y'all but I'm kinda tired of the kind, smiling, dainty princesses we've been getting (Seondeok).



Chick was wild.

I honestly Don't mind seeing Lady Xoc in the game as I'll be happy to take a new face for the Mayans and I'd be happy to learn more about her, any new leader in the Americas especially the Mayans will do for me, even if it means someone like Lady Xoc coming into Civ 6.

 

[Leyrann]

Honestly some of the color choices for VI seem a bit questionable. I'm not sure why they chose to invert Egypt's scheme for instance--Rome was yellow-on-purple in V, while Egypt was purple-on-yellow. No issue there. So obviously the correct thing to do in the next game is to keep Rome yellow-on-purple.. and then make Egypt ALSO yellow-on-purple? Then Norway/Indonesia/Korea all sharing the same colors in VI even though Indonesia had a different scheme in V with Gajah Mada, who was contemporaneous with Gitarja. I get swapping colors to make them more historically accurate, and if Korea ends up using something more akin to the yellow and red in its older flags that would make sense, but the changes from V seem somewhat arbitrary and nonsensical. Australia "stealing" Netherland's colors is another thing, but I can understand changing Netherland's colors at least if it's a different leader than, say, William of Orange.

All Dutch monarchs are called "of Orange" though. William III of Orange, king William I of Orange, queen Wilhelmina of Orange, and now king William-Alexander of Orange. (and a bunch more I didn't bother mentioning because they're neither considered as possible Dutch leader nor currently ruling)

 

[Guandao]

The suspense is killing me. I kind of wish we got a hint like for the base game (that leader pictures "puzzle"), concerning the leaders.
Now we have to wait for Monday to get a clue.

 

[God of Kings]

I hope we see more "interesting" female leaders with wild personalities. I'd personally like to see an overzealous Lady Xoc, whose devotion to the Maya's crazy religious customs (such as pulling a thorned rope through her pierced tongue) would definitely make for an interesting leader. Idk about y'all but I'm kinda tired of the kind, smiling, dainty princesses we've been getting (Seondeok).



Chick was wild.

Lady Xoc puts the "Xoc" in "Xoc value." Note that Mayan Romanization is based on old Spanish orthography, which means that "x" makes an "sh" sound.

 

[evanaurora]

Agreed. India, Egypt, and France are all higher priority for me--but I'd put England right after them. I really don't care for their choice of Victoria.

I'm a Catherine defender 'til the end, but India and Egypt desperately need love, and Victoria is such a weird choice... I get that she's heavily associated with England for a lot of reasons, but Elizabeth I is even more iconic, and it's strange to me that they haven't pulled other major English figures for variety before now. Perhaps because England's such a consistent provider of an undeniably important female ruler... but then, Elizabeth?!? I doubt anyone would have complained.

9 times out of 10 I prefer a female over a male ruler, but I have to say, I'd love to see Henry V....

Ultimately, though, India seems to me the most urgent. What with the multiple rulers capability, NOT including an alternate to Gandhi-- if they had to include him at all, as the "joke" is beyond tiresome and honestly kind of offensive at this point-- is basically Video Game Malpractice lol. Plus they could take India in so many interesting directions.... what's the downside?!

All that said... I'm very concerned they're going to go with America or Rome........

 

[Guandao]

I'm a Catherine defender 'til the end, but India and Egypt desperately need love, and Victoria is such a weird choice... I get that she's heavily associated with England for a lot of reasons, but Elizabeth I is even more iconic, and it's strange to me that they haven't pulled other major English figures for variety before now. Perhaps because England's such a consistent provider of an undeniably important female ruler... but then, Elizabeth?!? I doubt anyone would have complained.

9 times out of 10 I prefer a female over a male ruler, but I have to say, I'd love to see Henry V....

Ultimately, though, India seems to me the most urgent. What with the multiple rulers capability, NOT including an alternate to Gandhi-- if they had to include him at all, as the "joke" is beyond tiresome and honestly kind of offensive at this point-- is basically Video Game Malpractice lol. Plus they could take India in so many interesting directions.... what's the downside?!

All that said... I'm very concerned they're going to go with America or Rome........

I think they wanted a different English leader than Elizabeth I for Civ6, but still wanted a female one, so they chose Victoria.

 

[PhilBowles]

I think they wanted a different English leader than Elizabeth I for Civ6, but still wanted a female one, so they chose Victoria.

Isn't it possible they simply wanted to represent the British Empire, as the civ uniques attest, and just chose the most appropriate leader for that period?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think they wanted a different English leader than Elizabeth I for Civ6, but still wanted a female one, so they chose Victoria.

Yes. Elizabeth is/was overplayed, and a fine example of bad Civ V leader-screens. She needed a break.

 

[Guandao]

Isn't it possible they simply wanted to represent the British Empire, as the civ uniques attest, and just chose the most appropriate leader for that period?

That's also a possibility. Though, they could've picked a Prime Minister from that period as the leader.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Yes. Elizabeth is/was overplayed, and a fine example of bad Civ V leader-screens. She needed a break.

"Would you be interested in a trade agreement with England?"

Also, sixty-two days.

 

[AvianBritish]

As much as I would love for Elizabeth to return, it might be a good idea for her to sit 6 out to refresh herself; I'm all for King James I of England and Ireland (AKA, King James VI of Scotland) as I think it would be a great way to represent Scotland without having people complaining that Scotland shouldn't be in the game as a full Civ. Blue and White and the capital of Edinburgh (because London belongs to Victoria) I think it would be great! (Also he can have a cool wee Scottish accent!)

As for "Elizabeth is the most famous English Ruler" that's certainly not the case here in England/Britain. For us here in the United Kingdom, Victoria is probably with out a doubt our most popular monarch and our most popular "leader" would be Winston Churchill. Elizabeth was... one of the leaders along with Henry VIII that people get thought of in primary school here (Primary school is the first stage of school; followed by High School) but otherwise Victoria is defiantly more popular over here.