[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[ferretbacon]

this first reveal is definitely going to be a couple big names, they need faces to sell the expansion. Think about the first people we saw for vanilla, USA leader was first, and a week later was Cleopatra, then Victoria, then Tokimune, Qin. They went with the big guns in terms of marketability, name recognition, etc. first. France was next but that was Catherine which was sorta the first "oh?" pick. Brazil was next which i think was also a surprise for folks that Brazil would be in vanilla at the time. They had Teddy and Cleopatra all over their advertising for the remainder of pre-release, so anticipate one or two big recognizable people to be first. Genghis Khan definitely fits the mold. Getting a Korean leader out early also fits the mold. They are heavily referenced in the trailer. I can't see how one of these two, if not both, come this week. A western civ COULD sneak in to 2nd reveal, but I'm not sure which one they could pick that would be so recognizable as to go above a korean leader.

Interesting way to look at it. To lend more credence to this, I recall that Boudica and Attila were the poster children of the Gods and Kings expansion.

 

[Guandao]

They might do another AI battle royale on the extra week at the end. They could also do Wonder movies.

Maybe a wonder movie for that Feitoria/Ottoman Hammam/Swahili palace thingy, if it is a world wonder.

 

[God of Kings]

They might do another AI battle royale on the extra week at the end. They could also do Wonder movies.

That reminds me of something: what happened to @Zeusmoltar9:

 

[Zaarin]

this first reveal is definitely going to be a couple big names, they need faces to sell the expansion. Think about the first people we saw for vanilla, USA leader was first, and a week later was Cleopatra, then Victoria, then Tokimune, Qin. They went with the big guns in terms of marketability, name recognition, etc. first. France was next but that was Catherine which was sorta the first "oh?" pick. Brazil was next which i think was also a surprise for folks that Brazil would be in vanilla at the time. They had Teddy and Cleopatra all over their advertising for the remainder of pre-release, so anticipate one or two big recognizable people to be first. Genghis Khan definitely fits the mold. Getting a Korean leader out early also fits the mold. They are heavily referenced in the trailer. I can't see how one of these two, if not both, come this week. A western civ COULD sneak in to 2nd reveal, but I'm not sure which one they could pick that would be so recognizable as to go above a korean leader.

I don't think we'll see Genghis, personally. I think we'll either see Kublai Khan or one of the female leaders others have mentioned: Khutulun or Mandukhai Khatun.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The Mongols would be a perfect test for whether or not they will replace a Great Person and make him/her a civ leader.

 

[nzcamel]

I don't think we'll see Genghis, personally. I think we'll either see Kublai Khan or one of the female leaders others have mentioned: Khutulun or Mandukhai Khatun.

But Genghis is BIG personality. Dunno bout those others so much...

 

[God of Kings]

But Genghis is BIG personality. Dunno bout those others so much...

Genghis Khan is the first name most people think up when they hear the word "Mongols." Kublai Khan though is the second name.

 

[Zaarin]

The Mongols would be a perfect test for whether or not they will replace a Great Person and make him/her a civ leader.

I'm really hoping the answer is no, because it rules out Joan of Arc, Napoleon, and best of all Boudicca.

But Genghis is BIG personality. Dunno bout those others so much...

So does Kublai Khan.

 

[God of Kings]

Maybe a wonder movie for that Feitoria/Ottoman Hammam/Swahili palace thingy, if it is a world wonder.

The wonder quote for Statue of Liberty should be the famous "The New Colossus" sonnet. However, knowing Firaxis, it can be quite likely that Sean Bean would read an excerpt of the below:

"Liberty enlightening the world," indeed! The expression makes us sick. This government is a howling farce. It can not or rather does not protect its citizens within its own borders. Shove the Bartholdi statue, torch and all, into the ocean until the "liberty" of this country is such as to make it possible for an inoffensive and industrious colored man to earn a respectable living for himself and family, without being ku-kluxed, perhaps murdered, his daughter and wife outraged, and his property destroyed. The idea of the "liberty" of this country "enlightening the world," or even Patagonia, is ridiculous in the extreme.
​

Source: "Postponing Bartholdi's statue until there is liberty for colored as well". The Cleveland Gazette. Cleveland, Ohio. November 27, 1886. p. 2.

 

[IdiotStyle]

i think removing a great person seems as possibleas removing a city state which happened.

Edit: + it would make possibility for great person reworks with new mechanics.

 

[nzcamel]

Genghis Khan is the first name most people think up when they hear the word "Mongols." Kublai Khan though is the second name.

So does Kublai Khan.

Oh I know of Kublai...but he doesn't have Temujin's widespread infamy. Few names in history come with the Jaws soundtrack attached...

 

[Zaarin]

The wonder quote for Statue of Liberty should be the famous "The New Colossus" sonnet. However, knowing Firaxis, it can be quite likely that Sean Bean would read an excerpt of the below:

"Liberty enlightening the world," indeed! The expression makes us sick. This government is a howling farce. It can not or rather does not protect its citizens within its own borders. Shove the Bartholdi statue, torch and all, into the ocean until the "liberty" of this country is such as to make it possible for an inoffensive and industrious colored man to earn a respectable living for himself and family, without being ku-kluxed, perhaps murdered, his daughter and wife outraged, and his property destroyed. The idea of the "liberty" of this country "enlightening the world," or even Patagonia, is ridiculous in the extreme.
​

Source: "Postponing Bartholdi's statue until there is liberty for colored as well". The Cleveland Gazette. Cleveland, Ohio. November 27, 1886. p. 2.

No, no, it either has to be astonishingly mundane ("Oh my, what fun we've lost!") or allegedly humorous ("The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese."), with very rarely a quote actually befitting the subject (like the quote from TS Elliot's "Four Quartets" or the LotR quote). A much more likely Statue of Liberty quote is:

The ceremony included speeches by the president and famed French engineer Ferdinand de Lesseps, among others, as well as music and gun salvo. The finale? The statue’s designer, Frederic-Auguste Bartholdi, who was perched in the statue’s torch, pulled a rope removing a large French flag from the front of the statue, revealing Lady Liberty’s face to the crowd.​

...from the New York Times.

Oh I know of Kublai...but he doesn't have Temujin's infamy. Few names in history come with the Jaws soundtrack attached...

Yes, but we weren't talking about Attila.

 

[God of Kings]

@Zaarin

What I thought when I pulled the Cleveland Gazette quote about the Statue of Liberty, I was thinking of quotes similar to those used for the Ruhr Valley, Class Struggle (by Warren Buffet), and such.

 

[nzcamel]

Yes, but we weren't talking about Attila.

Attila-smilla... Not even in the same ball park

 

[Zaarin]

@Zaarin

What I thought when I pulled the Cleveland Gazette quote about the Statue of Liberty, I was thinking of quotes similar to those used for the Ruhr Valley, Class Struggle (by Warren Buffet), and such.

I've only built the Ruhr Valley once, but that one time I did...I mean, aren't wonders supposed to be inspiring, not depressing? Maybe the game should introduce Teddy with a quotation from The Grapes of Wrath or Upton Sinclair's The Jungle or something.

Attila-smilla... Not even in the same ball park

It's probably Civ5's chubby apple blossom-cheeked Genghis, but somehow he just doesn't make me tremble like the Scourge of God.

 

[God of Kings]

I've only built the Ruhr Valley once, but that one time I did...I mean, aren't wonders supposed to be inspiring, not depressing? Maybe the game should introduce Teddy with a quotation from The Grapes of Wrath or Upton Sinclair's The Jungle or something.

I never understood Firaxis's choice of quotes...

 

[nzcamel]

It's probably Civ5's chubby apple blossom-cheeked Genghis, but somehow he just doesn't make me tremble like the Scourge of God.

Yeah that'll do it. In V the Great Kahn is a very likable guy. Attila's growl is all menace.

I've only built the Ruhr Valley once, but that one time I did...I mean, aren't wonders supposed to be inspiring, not depressing? Maybe the game should introduce Teddy with a quotation from The Grapes of Wrath or Upton Sinclair's The Jungle or something.

I never understood Firaxis's choice of quotes...

And the yawnfest you get re the Apandana.
I don't mind the odd funny quote, but there is too many in VI... to many convoluted jokes, and too many dirges.

 

[nzcamel]

 

[IdiotStyle]

in before achievement: get genghis khan while playing genghis khan as a leader.

 

[clapyourhands]

in before achievement: get genghis khan while playing genghis khan as a leader.

Technically something like it already exists in the game. In Alexander's scenario you play as Alexander the Great and start with the Great General Alexander the Great, and if Alexander the Great the Great General dies then Alexander the Great the player loses.