DWilson
Where am I? What turn is it?
Not to mention they certainly mixed with native Africans. IIRC, e.g., Hannibal was possibly ethnically African.
[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread
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SammyKhalifa
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Yeah right or wrong in my mind I split out classical "Mediterrranean" civs from the rest of Europe, Africa, ME.
Indeed. There is coinage bearing his image and he looks distinctly African.
http://www.blackhistoryheroes.com/2012/07/hannibal-barca-of-carthage-north-africa.html
To be fair, the website is somewhat biased but the coin is an actual item.
Archeological excavations also reveal an interesting picture:
The anthropological examination of skeletons found in tombs in Carthage proves that there is no racial unity [...] The so called Semitic type, characterized by the long, perfectly oval face, the thin aquiline nose and the lengthened cranium, enlarged over the nape of the neck has not been found in Carthage. On the other hand, another cranial form, with a fairly short face, prominent parietal bumps, farther forward and lower down than is usual is common [...] most of the Punic population in Carthage had African and even Negro ancestors" (Daily Life in Carthage at the Time of Hannibal, Charles Picard)
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Ondolindë
Emperor
I'd prefer Korea offer something like celadon and songpyeon, which is a traditional celebration food.
The commoners certainly mixed with Berbers, but there's definitely evidence that the elite preferred to keep to themselves, much like the Ptolemies in Egypt or the European nobility. It's worth remembering that the native people of the area around Carthage were Berbers, who are still Mediterranean, not black Subsaharan Africans. The Romans also didn't see the Carthaginians as looking strikingly different from other peoples of the Mediterranean (which is still no evidence for or against intermarriage with Berbers, of course).
sonicmyst
Emperor
I will still stick on my prediction of 1 African civ, 1 South American, 1 European and 1 Middle Eastern civs for the remaining FLs.
pgm123
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Just curious, how can you tell that's a coin of Hannibal Barca? Googling it says that it is a depiction of the Phoenician god Melqart, but there seem to be much more Levantine depictions of Melqart on coins as well. I'm not 100% sure why Hannibal would appear on Carthaginian coins at all.
I do hope Korea does not offer Kimchi.
While they did ferment vegetables in the time period of the three kingdoms, it wouldn’t have been anything like the version of Kimchi that we are all familiar with. Chilli peppers were introduced by the Portuguese in the 17th Century.
Celadon originated in China so I am not sure that would be appropriate, either.
Songpyeon would work. It’s delicious and commonly eaten at Chuseok, the Korean version of Thanksgiving.
While they did ferment vegetables in the time period of the three kingdoms, it wouldn’t have been anything like the version of Kimchi that we are all familiar with. Chilli peppers were introduced by the Portuguese in the 17th Century.
Celadon originated in China so I am not sure that would be appropriate, either.
Songpyeon would work. It’s delicious and commonly eaten at Chuseok, the Korean version of Thanksgiving.
Most things originated in China.
But the Chinese agree that it was the Koreans who perfected celadon. That would be much later than Seondeok, though; I hadn't considered that.
Scholars seem to be divided on the issue. Some say it is Hannibal and others say it is a diety.
It would be interesting to have the Cartheginians worshipping an obviously negroid diety, however. That would indicate something in regards to racial relations and identity, that’s for sure.
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Most things originated in China.
Historical records talk about the quality of Korean celadon in the Goryeo dynasty period which was much later than the three kingdom period, yeah. I suppose if the Korean leader was from a later period, it might be appropriate.
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Yet Jayavarman VII offered fried spiders. Frying batter did not exist in Khmer territory during his time.
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"Hello, I'm Seondeok. Could I interest you in some religious teachings?"
It can't possibly be worse than, "I am Julius Caesar. Of Rome. Would you care for some salad? I made it myself."
Yeah, that is likely anachronistic. I believe eating tarantulas only became popular during the dark days of the Khmer Rouge when starvation was rampant.
The first historical record of frying food goes back to 5th Century BC in Greece, however. So, it is not out of the question that the Khmer could have fried some food.
Phillip II makes frequent references to "God" and "the Lord," and Saladin references Allah, so it wouldn't be without precedent. Had Darius II led Persia, he would no doubt have invoked Ahura Mazda (or Auramazda, in Old Persian). Harald Hardrada (anachronistically) invokes Odin and says he's bound for Valhalla. Monty invokes Huitzilopochtli. Jadwiga also references God and the Lord.
Lord Lakely
Idea Fountain
and she wonders why she doesn't get invited to parties.
I'd much rather discuss theology than celebrity gossip, the weather, or whatever it is people blabber about at parties. Then again, I don't get invited to parties either.
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