Rise and Fall of House Julii

The Guardian · Oct 29, 2011

Virote_Considon said:
The only problem is, the AI won't know what to do with them until they know all worker actions

Well, that sucks. :cry:

Thanks Firaxis :wallbash:

nick0515 · Nov 1, 2011

It's not a great solution but how about have basic dirt roads as roads, and roman roads as railways.

Personally I don't like railways though so I never use them. To unrealistic having unlimited move. Juts thought I'd suggest it though incase it appeals to you.

If you are going to make roads available later in the game and your worried about resources you could place resource under pre paced citites.

The Guardian · Nov 1, 2011

nick0515 said:
It's not a great solution but how about have basic dirt roads as roads, and roman roads as railways.

Personally I don't like railways though so I never use them. To unrealistic having unlimited move. Juts thought I'd suggest it though incase it appeals to you.

If you are going to make roads available later in the game and your worried about resources you could place resource under pre paced citites.

No railroads. In the first ver of the scenario, each civ starts with one city and builds from there. By doing it this way, the scenario seems to follow a historical time line. Not exactly but close enough.

I am working on a second scenario where the cities are preplaced. Rome is essentially isolated, trade wise, from all others civs and must remain so for game purposes. All civs except rome require the same strategic resource. Rome requires a separate unique resource. This relates to unit production. Rome can only build certain units in its home territory and certain units are only available to Rome in foreign territory. Example: Praetorian units can only be built in Rome. Units of the Roman Legio Etruria (2nd Legion) can only be built in the Etrurian Capital after Rome has taken that city and then built the Castra Etruria. Roman Auxiliaries can only be produced in their respective homelands. In this way, as rome conquers more and more enemies, her strength and power grows more and more. Romes enemies can weaken her by cutting her supply lines (roads). Without supply of capital resources, Rome can not build auxiliary units. believe me, this was not easy to accomplish.

The Guardian · Nov 1, 2011

Ares de Borg said:
About "longships": I've written a dissertation about norse shipbuilding not long ago, and to my surprise found no evidence of larger sail-powered vessels before the Middle Ages. There is evidence for long, row-powered boats though. I wish somebody made such an unit...

Summa summarum: No longboats as we know them in antiquity...

Ares I found found this, what do you think?

I hope someone will make one.

Babylon746 · Nov 1, 2011

Well, that looks more like a very basic galley from the Mediterranean.

In Scandinavia, ships like the following were found from the Iron Age:
Hjortspring boat, ~300-400 BC
Nydam boat, ~300 AD

The Guardian · Nov 1, 2011

Babylon746 said:
Well, that looks more like a very basic galley from the Mediterranean.

In Scandinavia, ships like the following were found from the Iron Age:
Hjortspring boat, ~300-400 BC
Nydam boat, ~300 AD

Yes Babylon, I believe the second image is similar to the one I posted, but actually a better example of what Pliny described in his text " able to move in either direction".

Which means they could get out of trouble as quickly as they got into it.

Ares de Borg · Nov 1, 2011

The 2nd picture looks better than the 1st, scandinavian vessels weren't supposed to ram.

T-mun · Nov 2, 2011

The Guardian said:
Do you think you could find that for me. I would be interested in reading it. Can you remember any more details, such as dates, locations etc. It would be helpful.

Sorry it took me some time to answer. It is in French, but I'll try to translate it in the coming days.

"Long before the Romans came ... " would indeed be a long long time ago.

I meant Gauls had their first contacts with Greek traders long before they settled on the littoral borders of Gaul, and the city of Massilia was founded around 600 BC. That was a bit before the Romans even conquered Italy

The Guardian · Nov 2, 2011

themanuneed said:
Sorry it took me some time to answer. It is in French, but I'll try to translate it in the coming days.

I meant Gauls had their first contacts with Greek traders long before they settled on the littoral borders of Gaul, and the city of Massilia was founded around 600 BC. That was a bit before the Romans even conquered Italy

But that does not indicate that there were roads. The first references I have, refer to trails, cow paths, and dirt pathways, which the roman legions made better by clearing away brush and over growth, building bridges across streams and rivers, and laying gravel in wet and marshy areas.
There is evidence that Greeks and Romans were trading with the Suiones long before any Roman or Greek presence was established in that area. In fact, no Greek or Roman settlements were ever established in that area and there is no reference of any real roads in that area, yet a robust trade in amber exited.

If you have a varifiable reference please let me know what reference you are quoting so that I can justify the inclusion of roads at an earlier time period. It will make a great difference in the mod.

Wolfshade · Nov 2, 2011

Guardian, I had an idea about the 2nd scenario with pre-placed cities you told about - it's possible to use roads & railroads with the same .pcx pic. To limit movement by the reailroads, you can use roads + railroads following the scheme: 1 tile road + 2 tiles railroads. So the movement will be fast but limited anyway.

The Guardian · Nov 2, 2011

Wolfshade said:
Guardian, I had an idea about the 2nd scenario with pre-placed cities you told about - it's possible to use roads & railroads with the same .pcx pic. To limit movement by the reailroads, you can use roads + railroads following the scheme: 1 tile road + 2 tiles railroads. So the movement will be fast but limited anyway.

If you use the same graphic, how will you tell the difference between road types?

Wolfshade · Nov 2, 2011

Different graphics usage in my idea is an optional thing, not required one. And if roman roads should look different as well - it's a good possibility to show the difference.

nick0515 · Nov 2, 2011

Wolfshade said:
Guardian, I had an idea about the 2nd scenario with pre-placed cities you told about - it's possible to use roads & railroads with the same .pcx pic. To limit movement by the reailroads, you can use roads + railroads following the scheme: 1 tile road + 2 tiles railroads. So the movement will be fast but limited anyway.

That's actually a very good idea. The roads and railroads would need to be preplaced, and you'd probably have to turn off pillaging, which might be too big a sacrifice. Plus make it so workers can build more otherwise they would put railways everywhere.

Babylon746 · Nov 2, 2011

Another idea (for the scenario with pre-placed cities and roads/railroads) could be to enable the crossing of rivers only with a late tech (or not at all).
Then, every time a Roman/advanced road (=railroad) crossed a river, the movement would be slowed down.

To make movement even slower, you could make mountains (make jungle if you use it as a dense, primeval forest) unroadable. Crossing a big mountain range - like the Alps - would take considerably more time then, and it wouldn't be possible to build a "railroad" over these mountains.

I don't think you should make it impossible for the more "primitive" cultures of Gaul and Northern Europe to build roads.
Long-distance trade in these times mostly happened via rivers, but sadly that isn't possible to implement in Civ3. Or is it?

Wolfshade · Nov 2, 2011

Babylon, some kind only. For example:
1) there's a building auto-produces flag unit "Luxuries", this building requires a specific resource within the city radius to be built;
2) resource is somewhere on the map far enough from the victory point location;
3) the most comfortable way to deliver "Luxuries" from the city they were auto-produced to the victory point city is a river.
This will make an effect of "Luxuries" movement around the territory, but I'm not sure AI will handle it (I didn't try it, so I have no idea). It's possible to even isolate a "city-autoproducer" with impassable mountains and left the only way by the river - and see what AI will do. But this discussion is seems to be an off-topic in the current thread.

The Guardian · Nov 2, 2011

Wolfshade and Babylon

In the mod, roads can not be built on mountains and there is 0 commerce on mountains, and they are impassable for wheeled units. There is also LM terrain that blocks trade between Rome and all other civs. There is no water trade.

I am currently exploring a couple of ideas regarding how to handle trade. One idea involves creating auto produced flag units (trade goods) requiring specific strategic good in cities other than the capital. The capital would have a victory location marker and goods would have to be transported there to be redeemed. The problem with this is that once the capital falls there is nowhere to redeem the goods. An additional idea is to place Victory locations at the ports or at the capital and at least one port.

Wolfshade
Any topic which has anything to do with this mod is ok. I don't believe your comments are off topic. Any comments or ideas that could improve the MOD are appropriate.

Wolfshade · Nov 2, 2011

Guardian said:
The problem with this is that once the capital falls there is nowhere to redeem the goods.

I met this problem on my own mod development. Well, it's a problem for those who lost a capital city, but they have to fight it back. After that they will have a possibility to redeem goods they accumulated - so it's not a terrible thing. If they won't - accumulated goods will be a pleasant "present" to the conquerors, it seems to be fair to me.

An additional idea is to place Victory locations at the ports or at the capital and at least one port.

Seems like an acceptable idea.

Any topic which has anything to do with this mod is ok. I don't believe your comments are off topic. Any comments or ideas that could improve the MOD are appropriate.

Thank you.

I just want your thread to be clean - since it's informative and I follow it.