Rise and Rule for Civ3:Conquests

[Pfeffersack]

@ KingOfCiv

Have you tried Jaretts 180x180 worldmap? It is available at CDG:

http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/viewtopic.php?t=7725



@ jimmygeo

(...)
A copule of little problems, though. 1) the game date stays at 'NOV.'!!?! no matter what turn you are on. And 2) the 'build colony' command is not present on the screen nor can you use 'B' from the keyboard. I checked with the editor and the appropriate box is checked for the worker/slave units, so what's the matter?

Thanks for any help with these minor irritants so that the mod can become perfect.

jimmygeo

1) Never notices such a thing.Which game date? The mod plays in years?
2) Never have a problem with this.Perhaps you try to use a slave for building a colony (you wrote it has checked the box in the editor; this isn't the case and it is on purpose to limit the abilities of slaves).IIRC, colonies can only be built on strategic or luxury ressources, too - perhaps you try to build on a bonus ressource (they are quite plentiful, too and might look like strategic/luxuries at the first glance...)



@ Dragonlord

You can build a clan with a pop-2-town...the hardy one! This also aplies for the next following steps of the settler line - you always have the choice of building a unit for colonization purposes which costs less population at the cost of more shields.I agree, this takes more time (but you get the additional benefit of being able to cross mountains+settle jungles and swamps), but this is on purpose and it works as intented.Scouting a couple of turn might be a benefit if you are able to locate a food bonus.You will get the invested turns back by faster growth and it will give you a definite advantage over the AI which simply plops its settler down on the starting position.

 

[tonevdik]

Plece tell me how and from were I can download your modpack!
Tyou

 

[Pfeffersack]

Plece tell me how and from were I can download your modpack!
Tyou

The link is in the first post on the first page of this thread.It might take time to get the download started and the download is huge, but there are also some mirrors (to find them use the link to the download section of the DyP website; the link to it can be also found in the first post).

 

[EvilCommieMan]

Are there any other maps based on the DyP kal-el one for RAR? The jarrett one is, how can I say this... obscenely and ridiculousy hard to the umpteenth degree.

I open up the editor and select jarrett's map, hoping to find an accurate representation of the Kal-El map I've grown to favor above all other earth maps... and I find this.

Can you say "Hokee smokes!!!"??

I'm currently going through the mind-numbing task of deleting most of the barbarian camps, I'm no CivIII scenario guru, so if there's a faster way of doing this, please tell me, as I estimate there's at least150 barbarian camps on the map

And I actually tried playing the map btw, optimistic that maybe the barbarian camps would balance things. Nope. I was attacked within 2-3 turns, and without sufficient defense, it was goodbye Russia. And this was on Regent btw.

 

[dreamvirus]

This is the best mod to Civ3 that I've ever played. I'd go so far as to say that it's a superior addition to the game than Conquests itself - I think with Conquests Firaxis took the safe option every time, not changing anything that people liked, and not adding anything that they thought people would complain about (with the possible exception of the changes to the Forbidden Palace corruption model). I can understand that since they have commercial interests to think about, but it just goes to show that amateurs come up with the best stuff every time...

At first many aspects of R&R frustrated me. I dropped down a level or two to Emperor to test it out, and played with the Sioux, and I quickly found that my entire early-game strategy from Civ3 was going to have to be thrown out the window. First of all - no irrigation! no mines on grassland!! and losing 3 pop from a city to build a settler-type unit!!! This all might not have been so much of a problem to someone who hadn't spent so much time in "normal" civ3 developing an early-game strategy that by now verges on the mechanical. I was very doubtful, especially about the fact that my workers could only build roads at the start, but decided to continue on.

After a while I got used to the slower expansion, and actually realized it was nice that the entire globe wasn't going to fill up before the Middle Ages. I also realized that city placement strategy was going to be very different - no more of the "bonus grassland or bust" strategy, hills and mountains are now far more important for production and I like that. You can have a couple of cities with lots of grassland/plains that will grow lots of pop for cash or science, and you can have another few cities that get to size 6 or 7 and stay there, working a couple of hills/mountains and churning out units. You can also mine forests, which is nice, especially as it now takes longer to chop them.

I LOVE the fact that you can build production-enhancing improvements almost from the very start. This totally changes another normal Civ3 game strategy of dragging yourself kicking and screaming into the industrial ages, building factories and coal plants, ramping up production and going ballistic. Now you can gradually build up your cities' production, alternating between that and other improvements or military. I found myself alternating between building and military, cranking out a stream of units to make some limited war for territory or resources, then relaxing into another build cycle, at the end of which my production capacities would have increased even more. By the time the industrial ages arrived I had some truly fantastic production powerhouses going. In one of my cities which is located beside 2 mountains, I was able to build the forge, water mill, wind mill, guild hall, factory, coal plant and iron works, and then a park to keep the pollution under control! I've neglected the commercial side to my entire civ, but I think on a higher level I might not have been able to do that. I think this mod is a builder's dream because of the options it gives you. I started Civ3 as an almost pure builder, and switched to warmongering as it was the only way to tackle the highest levels, but the building is by far the most interesting part of this mod and I believe there is much more scope for a human to outplay an AI non-militarily. I can't wait to test that theory

The tech pace IS very fast, but then, there are more techs and each one is worth comparatively less, so this seems reasonable to me. At one point I fell quite far behind, but then I made some war and grabbed some resources and found that I could trade resources for tech at a very nice ratio, and caught up again. I had the option to build the encyclopedie, but by that point I was able to keep even on tech purely through researching non-required tech and trading for what the AI researched, so I didn't bother. Higher levels might be more difficult, but the fact that there is more than one Great Library-type wonder gives the human more options - no more of the "Miss the Great Library by 1 turn and have to start a new game" that you can have on Deity or Sid in Civ3. Plus I love the new techs, so much thought has been put into them. So much that, really, it's a pity that you only have 1 tech for about 3 or 4 turns before you have another However I don't regard that as a flaw. At first I got stressed about the fact that I didn't have time to build all the improvements and units that I was able to, then I realized that this is good, it means there is a lot more scope for the expression of individual building styles and strategies. You don't have to build all the improvements - you don't need to.

Something I noticed about war - the AI piles huge numbers of defensive units into its capital. I learned this the hard way. One of my usual war strategies has always been to make a beeline for the enemy capital and destroy or capture it, totally rupturing their empire. This strategy is now far more difficult, and it makes much more sense to attack the fringes of the empire first, destroying their economy and snatching their resources. I had a couple of attacks repulsed easily before I learned that before you attack the capital you need a very significant force. Maybe the AI does this because of the addition of the princess? Whatever the reason is, it's a good strategy and makes war more interesting. I also approve of the changes to armies. Everyone knows that they are overpowered in Conquests, and the reduction to 2 units means that you have to be a bit more careful with them than before. Balance against this the nice fact that there are now several wonders that allow a city to build armies - it's not such a disaster to lose one to a bad run of luck against an uber-pikeman.

In fact that deserves a mention all of its own: there are so many wonders! It's very nice to know that basically whatever happens, you will have the chance to build one or more of these, unless you play on a very high level with 31 civs or something.

Thank you to all who have obviously spent so much time thinking about and working on this mod. It's fantastic. To be honest, I don't see myself wanting to go back and play "normal" Civ3 after this.

 

[zappara]

* Stealth attack units will find their way in, since this is somethingthe AI surprisinglycan handle extremely well.

Do you have any suggestions to this?

In my game, I've edited the scenario file and so far added Stealth Attack flag to the following units:
Radar Artillery (all enemies, except missiles/nuclear weapons/submarines)
Submersible (all ships, except submarines/modern ships)
Submarine (all ships, except submarines/modern ships)
Attack and Boomer Submarines (all ships, except submarines)
Precision Missiles (all enemies, except submarines/ICMB)

I've also thinking adding Stealth Attack to the following units:
Advanced Fighter (against planes)
Mounted units (against early foot units)
Modern helicopters (against tanks/foot units)
Metallic ships (against wooden ships)
Early Ships (against slower ships)
Archers (against foot/mounted units)
Paratrooper units (against artillery units)
Commando/Special Forces/Delta Force...Shadow Force (against artillery/foot units/mounted units)
TOW infantry (against tank/armored units)
... and so on.

 

[Dragonlord]

can[/B] build a clan with a pop-2-town...the hardy one! This also aplies for the next following steps of the settler line - you always have the choice of building a unit for colonization purposes which costs less population at the cost of more shields.I agree, this takes more time (but you get the additional benefit of being able to cross mountains+settle jungles and swamps), but this is on purpose and it works as intented.Scouting a couple of turn might be a benefit if you are able to locate a food bonus.You will get the invested turns back by faster growth and it will give you a definite advantage over the AI which simply plops its settler down on the starting position.

Thank you - you're quite right, of course! I completely overlooked the hardy settlers costing less population!
The problem with the food bonuses though is that they aren't all visible right from the start - scouting isn't much help there!

@dreamvirus

I totally agree with your observations! Looks like we play the same game style..

The Princess thing can be turned off - I only had one in my very first RAR game, it's one of the game options at the start.

@mod makers: Is it intended to play in the Princess mode ('Reverse Capture the Flag' I think it's called in the options)? It was enabled by default in the mod, IIRC.

 

[EvilCommieMan]

Ok, I deleted ALL of the barbarians on the worldmap, and placed some goodyhuts where the barbarian swarms used to be. The game should now have that DyP flavor with the RAR goodies, on the best map avalable

Here's the map... (This is ok to do, right??)

 

[Pfeffersack]

Thank you - you're quite right, of course! I completely overlooked the hardy settlers costing less population!
The problem with the food bonuses though is that they aren't all visible right from the start - scouting isn't much help there!

@dreamvirus

I totally agree with your observations! Looks like we play the same game style..

The Princess thing can be turned off - I only had one in my very first RAR game, it's one of the game options at the start.

@mod makers: Is it intended to play in the Princess mode ('Reverse Capture the Flag' I think it's called in the options)? It was enabled by default in the mod, IIRC.

About the food boni...not all of them are visible, but nevertheless it happens quite often that you find one - RaR has a great variety of ressources and a great number of them offer at least a slight food bonus (be sure to check the civilopedia - there are huge differences to standard epic games! For example horses and elephants give food, too).
But even if you don't find one in the beginning - there might show some up near your cities after researching some techs.So it is important in the first line to avoid killing them by building a city on the top of them - for example, I usually prefer placing cities on bonus grasslands over standard grassland. Simply because here is zero chance to get a food bonus.Hills, Forests, Jungle or any kind of only shield/commerce giving ressources are good city sites, too.

No princesses unless you enable them by rule - I tested it, press "default rules" does not enable them.However, I noticed the better defended AI capitals, too...especially on the higher levels when the AI has the units for doing this.I think this behaviour occurs since Conquests, never noticed it before, but nothing special about RaR.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Don't forget, the Palace includes Baracks and Walls, so captitals are intentionally hard to take (but this also assures your survival early in the game, unless you leave the city open...).

 

[dreamvirus]

No princesses unless you enable them by rule - I tested it, press "default rules" does not enable them.However, I noticed the better defended AI capitals, too...especially on the higher levels when the AI has the units for doing this.I think this behaviour occurs since Conquests, never noticed it before, but nothing special about RaR.

I've played Conquests a LOT and I've never noticed this before. I have only seen it in some of the scenarios, e.g. Sengoku, where a capital where the AI is keeping its Daimyo usually has an abnormally large number of defenders. Otherwise, I haven't noticed this behaviour, that's why I wondered if it was the presence of the Princess was causing the AI to prioritise the defense of this city more than it normally would. Just as an example, when I was finishing off the Koreans, in most of their cities they had 2 or 3 defenders, but in their capital they had at least 15.

 

[Pfeffersack]

I've played Conquests a LOT and I've never noticed this before. I have only seen it in some of the scenarios, e.g. Sengoku, where a capital where the AI is keeping its Daimyo usually has an abnormally large number of defenders. Otherwise, I haven't noticed this behaviour, that's why I wondered if it was the presence of the Princess was causing the AI to prioritise the defense of this city more than it normally would. Just as an example, when I was finishing off the Koreans, in most of their cities they had 2 or 3 defenders, but in their capital they had at least 15.

15 is quite a lot, but I noticed up to 10 in my current RaR game (Emperor, without princesses).Here is late game shot of the Japan capital (but it isn't restricted to the modern age, saw some similar defended capitals while setting up embassies in the middle ages):

 

[Hatshepsut]

I have a simple question. How can I play the RaR mod with conquests' civilizations? I mean Byzantines, Hittites and others. Although? the mod is superb, but I don't like those primitives like Polinesia, Tibet and others.

And the second. How about governments. It seems that AI don't use all your governments. I see it likes more republic, fundamentalism, less democracy federal republic. Why it never uses Feudal Monarchy, Theocracy etc.

Thanks again for such a great mod. I'm waiting for your answer.

 

[move_quietly]

About the food boni...not all of them are visible, but nevertheless it happens quite often that you find one - RaR has a great variety of ressources and a great number of them offer at least a slight food bonus (be sure to check the civilopedia - there are huge differences to standard epic games! For example horses and elephants give food, too).

i really like this about the mod, about not finding food right at the beginning. one thing i found is that it makes food i normally don't pay much attention to very important in the early part of the game, fish for example. [EDIT] this mod is terrific. another difference in play style for me is instead of rushing settlers out all over the place i seem to be building up cities a little more early in the game, actually building shrines to keep the population happy early on, etc, instead of ... spearman, settler .. spearman, settler .. spearman, settler. horses as mentioned above are apparently very yummy, one of my early games depended almost entirely on chowing on them to get the first few cities built. edit// and i also like that you aren't destined for the poor house from the very beginning of the game, with this mod you actually have some money early on since you can't peg the tech slider and automatically bankrupt your treasury.

 

[Pfeffersack]

I have a simple question. How can I play the RaR mod with conquests' civilizations? I mean Byzantines, Hittites and others. Although? the mod is superb, but I don't like those primitives like Polinesia, Tibet and others.

And the second. How about governments. It seems that AI don't use all your governments. I see it likes more republic, fundamentalism, less democracy federal republic. Why it never uses Feudal Monarchy, Theocracy etc.

Thanks again for such a great mod. I'm waiting for your answer.

Conquests civs: This isn't possible, unless you mod them in yourself (which would be possible, but a huge work and propably disturbing game balance).
One reason why there are different civs in the mod is the fact that they better fit in a world map (instead of crowding Europe even more, there are civs for North America, Africa and East Asia).However, I agree with you - I personally like the Conquests civs, too (simply because it is easier to identify with an European civ if you are from Europe), although I wouldn't call the extra civs primitive - neither from a historical view nor in terms of game balance.


AI governments: This is one of the toughest things to mod.Getting the AI to use as many governments as possible...RaR might no be perfect in this aspect, but I think it is on a very good way.I have seen Chiefdom, Monarchy, Democracy, Republic, Fundamentalism, Const. Monarchy, Federal Republic, Soc. Democracy and Fascism so far.Those are 9 out of possible 13 (both numbers without Anarchy), which I think is good amount of variety.
Theocracy and Feudal Monarchy are both governments for very special situations, so it is unlikely to see them very often in game.The first is best for a one city state, the second for a rather small underdeveloped empire full a of towns...
I tend to agree on Absolute Monarchy and Communism, the AI seems to neglect them, (at least in the games I have played), although both are good governments.
More feedback on this subject is welcome and further adjustments are possible, if there is unhealthy leaning of the AI towards some forms of government.

 

[Ronnoc]

You know what it must be? The creators had PtW still installed. I reinstalled everything over again--minus PTW. I guess if I download the ptw extras and stick them in my RAR folder it will work.

So does this mean that we need to download that goodies download from the DyP site or someplace else? Does this mean needing to uninstall everything and reinstallation?

How do you change to Snoopy's terrain in RaR?

Thanks.

 

[CiverDan]

Couple things I noticed about the Mod. Scientific is much more useful, especially if you can get a Tech lead. Nothing beats SGL's to rush stuff like the Crystal Palace. Agr is really toned down. I also agree you really have to set cities for specific purposes (e.g. science, mil prod, big, wonder builder. Using one city as a super science city (cap. if possible) if very important.

You have to make decisions on what wonders are most important. To me, these are Collusus style wonders, Big shield boosters, and most stuff that dont expire, and GL types at higher levels. I generally avoid the +50% sci wonders that expire, there is usually better stuff to build. Free barracks wonders are nice, but expire a lot. Usually better to buid a few barracks at important locations, unless you are in a AW style game.

 

[Digger532]

Cant wait to download this mod and give it a try..looks and sounds fantastic

 

[torrasque]

So does this mean that we need to download that goodies download from the DyP site or someplace else? Does this mean needing to uninstall everything and reinstallation?

Download the World War 2 unit pack from here (it's under the Terrain Set subheading for some reason). Unzip it into Civilization III\Conquests\Scenarios\RAR\Art\Units.

Question: Which improvement/Great Wonder/Small Wonder allows you to gain interest on your treasury? And waht tech makes it available?


On another note, when is the first RaR SG going to be started? It would be fascinating to watch some skilled players trying their hands at RaR.


torrasque

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Question: Which improvement/Great Wonder/Small Wonder allows you to gain interest on your treasury? And waht tech makes it available?

Central Bank; requires 5 Banks, just like in Civ3

On another note, when is the first RaR SG going to be started? It would be fascinating to watch some skilled players trying their hands at RaR.

I for one will wait a few more days, to check if any crucial bugs show up, and then start a Deity SG and a training game on Monarch.