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The Great Wall in RARR provides city walls to every city on the continent.
This effect is cancelled when that wonder becomes obsolete with tech metallurgy.
Rise And Rule Revisited (epic mod)
- Thread starter Civinator
- Start date
This effect is cancelled when that wonder becomes obsolete with tech metallurgy.
BuDDaH
Chieftain
I had a similar issue.
The Great wall provided free walls in the inventory of city improvements on the city screen. But walls were not visible around the cities on the strategic map.
Another issue is that I cannot build the Great Lighthouse. Sailing is researched, Harbor built but there is no option to build the Great Lighthouse. I checked the .biq file, everything is fine there.
I used the RARR 1.08 extended scenario.
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If I understand this correct, the city walls provided with the GW Great Walls are providing the additional defense of city walls in the cities, but are not shown in the graphics of the cities on the map.
The settings of the GW Great Lighthouse by the ancient master creators of RAR/DYP are somewhat tricky. Besides the prerequisites you have mentioned, this GW allows city size 3. This means, that this GW can only be built in a city that has at least city size 2. If you don´t have such a coastal city, even the tech Sailing and the building harbor are not enough to build that GW.
BuDDaH
Chieftain
I don't know whether the bonus is provided. Don't know how I can check it. There is City wall improvement in the list of improvements built in a city.
And yes, walls are not shown in the graphics of the cities on the map. Maybe it is fine for the unmodded civ3 because the GW is built, not walls in a city.
The Great Lighthouse worked as you said! I could start building this once the city reached the population of 8. I guess it is worth adding in the civilopedia description that the city must have the population of at least 8 to be able to build The Great Lighthouse.
Danke schoen fuer die Hilfe! Un fuer der mod, es ist wuderbar!
BuDDaH
Chieftain
By the way may I ask a question? I guess I'm no the first one to check this.
Why are there no conquest nations in the mod? Maya, Sumerians, Hittite, Dutch, Portugal etc. Only Inca are in the mod.
But there are some strange nations and leadeheads like Sioux and Tibet.
The mode uses seafaring and agricultural traits introduced in C3C but does not use the nations supplied with the expansion pack. Is it possible to add more nations to the mod?
The great thing about the mod is that I have played about 40 hours and there was not a single error or crashing. Great job indeed!
Why are there no conquest nations in the mod? Maya, Sumerians, Hittite, Dutch, Portugal etc. Only Inca are in the mod.
But there are some strange nations and leadeheads like Sioux and Tibet.
The mode uses seafaring and agricultural traits introduced in C3C but does not use the nations supplied with the expansion pack. Is it possible to add more nations to the mod?
The great thing about the mod is that I have played about 40 hours and there was not a single error or crashing. Great job indeed!
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In civ 3 you can only have 31 civs (plus the Barbarians) in the game. If you want to introduce a new civ to a mod or a scenario, you have to delete one of the existing civs.
The civs in the predecessor mods of RARR (RAR and DYP) in my eyes were chosen wisely by having an eye on a possible worldmap, played with the Civ 3 game mechanics. Put the Sumerians, Hittites additional to the Babylonians, Osmans, Persians on a worldmap and you can see the problem very soon: There is next to no place for an expansion for all of them. The same problem exists for the Dutch between France and Germany.
When reflecting about axing out one or two civs of RARR, my first candidat would be the Celts. The Celts cause the same problems of expansion in a RARR worldmap and additionally they are represented mostly by France. So the Celts being replaced by the Maya (or the Tupis/Brazil) could be an interesting change of Civs in RARR. I agree, that Tibet in my eyes is somewhat lame. But what civ should replace it as a civ between the Mongols, China and Russia, which all have such a lot of room for expansion? Turkestan as it is in the TETurkan mod??
The seafaring and agricultural traits in RARR are given to other existing civs in that mod. Per example Greece in RARR is seafaring and Babylon is agricultural.
BuDDaH
Chieftain
Ah I see, this totally makes sense. And that a considering replacing Celts by the Maya or Tupis. Let it be Tibet for the balanced world map, I see no problem here. Too bad there can't be more that 31 civs in the game.
With respect to the GW wonder, I understand the spearman with the tank, but It seemed very suspicious to me that two cities, both with fortified pikemen, were taken out by swordsman with only one loss on each city.
Could you build city walls in addition to the GW? Would they add any additional defensive strength?
Could you build city walls in addition to the GW? Would they add any additional defensive strength?
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Simply try it.
The German Wiki only additionally says, that city walls provided by the Great Wall, other than normal city walls, cannot be destroyed by artillery.
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Observations:
1. The English only have Gold as Resources - that's how it appears in their Resources! The Americans and Mali do not have Elephants or Horses as Resources (I checked carefully!) but because they have trade relations with the English, they now have Elephants Rider and Heavy Horseman units...
- to understand that the Resources as well as the Technology are somewhat ... "secret"!? Kinda weird!
2. Heavy Horseman (Iroquise) – "will retire...unless another fast unit...t." – most of the time they die in the fight against a Spearman (who is not fast united...)!!! They do not retreat! For example: out of 20 Heavy Horseman vs Spearman fights, with equal values 5/5, only 2-3 times Heavy Horseman withdrew... However, a Heavy Horseman has 4-2-2 and a Spearman 1-3-1 ... I understand that he cannot defeat the Spearman, but also that several Heavy Horseman die attacking only one Spearman... This happens with all the units that have incorporated "withdraw" in their action! They don't really retreat, they fight until the end...
3. There are Barracks in the city, and my Horseman did not heal in a one turn...!!!
4. Spearman's amphibious attack is interesting but also very strange, considering that it is a defense unit (according to Civpedia!!!), but more than that, the attack is very strong, considering that there are only 1 to attack . , my Speareman barely lasted... with 1 llife line!!!
5. The Siamese "Army" consisting of a Spearman and a catapult... The catapult bombards the city and that's it - is this a form of siege!?
6. I bombarded the Siamese "Army" consisting of a catapult and a Spearman - the Spearman reached one lifeline, the catapult at 2 lifelines, then I attacked with a Brave 5/5, the first to "defend" was the catapult... not the spearman... Who is protecting whom?
7. Another "Army" formed also Catapult+Spearman: I bombarded the "Army", the Spearman reached 1 lifeline, the catapult was not affected, but the "Army" does not retreat, although the Spearman is almost useless in these conditions and obviously they will be destroyed in a new attack! (Iroquois/Monarchy/Jan-79 AD)
8. Siam is besieging me with 2 Catapults and 2 Spearmen - he has no attacking units in his opponent! Another siege?– Jan/250 AD
9. I attack with Brave 5/5 a 4/4 catapult and Brave is left with 1 life line and retreats... Wow!
10. Again... a single catapult was landed to "attack" a small town on an island! – Jan/280 AD
Thank you for your attention!
1. The English only have Gold as Resources - that's how it appears in their Resources! The Americans and Mali do not have Elephants or Horses as Resources (I checked carefully!) but because they have trade relations with the English, they now have Elephants Rider and Heavy Horseman units...
- to understand that the Resources as well as the Technology are somewhat ... "secret"!? Kinda weird!
2. Heavy Horseman (Iroquise) – "will retire...unless another fast unit...t." – most of the time they die in the fight against a Spearman (who is not fast united...)!!! They do not retreat! For example: out of 20 Heavy Horseman vs Spearman fights, with equal values 5/5, only 2-3 times Heavy Horseman withdrew... However, a Heavy Horseman has 4-2-2 and a Spearman 1-3-1 ... I understand that he cannot defeat the Spearman, but also that several Heavy Horseman die attacking only one Spearman... This happens with all the units that have incorporated "withdraw" in their action! They don't really retreat, they fight until the end...
3. There are Barracks in the city, and my Horseman did not heal in a one turn...!!!
4. Spearman's amphibious attack is interesting but also very strange, considering that it is a defense unit (according to Civpedia!!!), but more than that, the attack is very strong, considering that there are only 1 to attack . , my Speareman barely lasted... with 1 llife line!!!
5. The Siamese "Army" consisting of a Spearman and a catapult... The catapult bombards the city and that's it - is this a form of siege!?
6. I bombarded the Siamese "Army" consisting of a catapult and a Spearman - the Spearman reached one lifeline, the catapult at 2 lifelines, then I attacked with a Brave 5/5, the first to "defend" was the catapult... not the spearman... Who is protecting whom?
7. Another "Army" formed also Catapult+Spearman: I bombarded the "Army", the Spearman reached 1 lifeline, the catapult was not affected, but the "Army" does not retreat, although the Spearman is almost useless in these conditions and obviously they will be destroyed in a new attack! (Iroquois/Monarchy/Jan-79 AD)
8. Siam is besieging me with 2 Catapults and 2 Spearmen - he has no attacking units in his opponent! Another siege?– Jan/250 AD
9. I attack with Brave 5/5 a 4/4 catapult and Brave is left with 1 life line and retreats... Wow!
10. Again... a single catapult was landed to "attack" a small town on an island! – Jan/280 AD
Thank you for your attention!
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Your list of obsevations are for the most part, just the way Civ3 works, which no .biq-only mod can change -- and/or which Flintlock has not (yet) altered in C3X.
(1) The English were presumably selling their spare Horses and Elephants to America and Mali, so had none left to sell to you...?
(2a) Fast units only have a chance to retreat, and only if they reach 1 hitpoint (HP) while their opponent has 2 or more HP left. If the defending unit reaches 1 HP before the attacker, retreat is not possible
(2b) It seems you may be making a common (noob) error of looking only at the raw A/D values. But attack 4 against defence 3 is already a nearly even match (defender has a 3/7 = 43% chance to win each combat-round), and if the defender also has bonuses from e.g. being fortified (+25%, in unmodded Civ3), behind Walls (+50%), across a River (+50%), and/or on a Hill (+50%), the attacker's probability of overall victory can/will drop sharply (if a D=3 defender had all 4 bonuses I mentioned, it would actually defend at an effective D = 8.25, making it more than twice as likely to win each combat-round compared to the A=4 attacker !)
(3) A unit must have full movement-points remaining to heal in 1 turn. If you move a unit into a Barracks-town at the end of Turn 1, since it has used some of its movement that turn, it will not begin to heal until the end of Interturn 2/ start of Turn 3 -- assuming you keep it fortified. However, if you use that unit to attack another incoming unit near the town during Turn 2, it will not heal until the end of Interturn 3/start of Turn 4.
(4) As I understand it, Amphibious units get an invisible (+25%?) bonus to their attack-value, when attacking from a boat
(5) This behaviour is (unfortunately) typical for C3X. Although the patched AI does now build Bombardment units, they still do not use them very intelligently. And they now also tend to over-build defensive units as escorts for those bombardiers (i.e. they have fewer shields available for "Offensive"-flagged units). You (or Civinator?) may want to consider toning down the bombard-unit build-frequency in the C3X scenario_config.ini that goes with RARR
(6) When a bombard-capable unit occupies the same tile as a defender, the bombardier will fire one "defensive-bombard" per interturn, against an incoming attacker. And when D-values of 2 units occupying the same tile are similar, the unit with more remaining HP usually defends -- even if it has a lower D-value. Again, this is normal Civ3 behaviour
(7) Yes, even when badly damaged, the "bombard-pair" defenders rarely retreat -- unless another bombard-unit has lost its defender, and has already retreated. I am not sure why, but it is possibly because the unit-controlling AI 'decides' what to do with any given unit on an individual unit-by-unit basis, rather than looking at the strategic "big picture" (so it does not 'understand' that it might be better for the bombard-pair to retreat together).
(8) Same problem as (5)
(9) Yes, as I said above: see (2)
(10) I understand from this, that this particular Catapult-unit in RARR has a non-zero A (and D?) value(s)? As such, the AI may/will treat it as a normal "Offensive unit", and so send it out on attack-missions without an escort.
(1) The English were presumably selling their spare Horses and Elephants to America and Mali, so had none left to sell to you...?
(2a) Fast units only have a chance to retreat, and only if they reach 1 hitpoint (HP) while their opponent has 2 or more HP left. If the defending unit reaches 1 HP before the attacker, retreat is not possible
(2b) It seems you may be making a common (noob) error of looking only at the raw A/D values. But attack 4 against defence 3 is already a nearly even match (defender has a 3/7 = 43% chance to win each combat-round), and if the defender also has bonuses from e.g. being fortified (+25%, in unmodded Civ3), behind Walls (+50%), across a River (+50%), and/or on a Hill (+50%), the attacker's probability of overall victory can/will drop sharply (if a D=3 defender had all 4 bonuses I mentioned, it would actually defend at an effective D = 8.25, making it more than twice as likely to win each combat-round compared to the A=4 attacker !)
(3) A unit must have full movement-points remaining to heal in 1 turn. If you move a unit into a Barracks-town at the end of Turn 1, since it has used some of its movement that turn, it will not begin to heal until the end of Interturn 2/ start of Turn 3 -- assuming you keep it fortified. However, if you use that unit to attack another incoming unit near the town during Turn 2, it will not heal until the end of Interturn 3/start of Turn 4.
(4) As I understand it, Amphibious units get an invisible (+25%?) bonus to their attack-value, when attacking from a boat
(5) This behaviour is (unfortunately) typical for C3X. Although the patched AI does now build Bombardment units, they still do not use them very intelligently. And they now also tend to over-build defensive units as escorts for those bombardiers (i.e. they have fewer shields available for "Offensive"-flagged units). You (or Civinator?) may want to consider toning down the bombard-unit build-frequency in the C3X scenario_config.ini that goes with RARR
(6) When a bombard-capable unit occupies the same tile as a defender, the bombardier will fire one "defensive-bombard" per interturn, against an incoming attacker. And when D-values of 2 units occupying the same tile are similar, the unit with more remaining HP usually defends -- even if it has a lower D-value. Again, this is normal Civ3 behaviour
(7) Yes, even when badly damaged, the "bombard-pair" defenders rarely retreat -- unless another bombard-unit has lost its defender, and has already retreated. I am not sure why, but it is possibly because the unit-controlling AI 'decides' what to do with any given unit on an individual unit-by-unit basis, rather than looking at the strategic "big picture" (so it does not 'understand' that it might be better for the bombard-pair to retreat together).
(8) Same problem as (5)
(9) Yes, as I said above: see (2)
(10) I understand from this, that this particular Catapult-unit in RARR has a non-zero A (and D?) value(s)? As such, the AI may/will treat it as a normal "Offensive unit", and so send it out on attack-missions without an escort.
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I'd also like to point out regarding this, that RARR has reduced retreat bonuses compared to the base game. A regular unit only has a retreat bonus of 15 in RARR, whereas a regular in base game has 50. This means that the retreat chance of a regular fast unit attacking a regular defender is only 21,5% in RARR, whereas a similar situation in the base game has a chance of 49%, or at least if I've understood and applied Flintlock's explanation correctly.
BuDDaH
Chieftain
Another observation regarding the GW. You CAN build city walls improvement in after you have constructed the GW, and when the city wall is completed in a city, its graphics does appear on the global map.
The Statue of Zeus can't be constructed as it requires knowledge of Mythology which can't be researched.
No animations of captured workers while digging mines and roads, though terrain improvements are done correctly.
The Statue of Zeus can't be constructed as it requires knowledge of Mythology which can't be researched.
No animations of captured workers while digging mines and roads, though terrain improvements are done correctly.
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Thank you very much for reporting that error.
I should have seen this, too. The Statue of Zeus only needs three temples and incense in the city, but no special technology. The prerequisite tech Mythology will be deleted in the next version of RARREdited: Or even better, it will be tied to tech Polytheism, the tech that allows the construction of temples, so the GW can appear in that techbox when looking at the techtree. Here is a screenshot with the fixed tech for that GW:
The enslaved workers for mining should use the animation EnslavedWorker-Build.flc and for roads the animation EnslavedWorker-Shovel.flc. I will have a look at this in DEBUG mod, when I have the time for it.
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Thank you very much for posting this observation.
BuDDaH
Chieftain
Bad pedia page of Blood Temple
Bad pedia page of Gold Mine
Monastery:
- in pedia: reduced cost for scientific and religious civs, in game: reduced cost only for religious civs
- in pedia: incense is required to build, in game: no resource is required.
Bad pedia page of Gold Mine
Monastery:
- in pedia: reduced cost for scientific and religious civs, in game: reduced cost only for religious civs
- in pedia: incense is required to build, in game: no resource is required.
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BuDDaH, one more time a big thank you very much for your reports and your sharp eyes on this mod.
The Blood Temple was a part of very early versions of RARR and RAR. As far as I have seen, in the current version of RARR there are only two links remaining to this building. In the current version of RARR it was replaced by the Holy Relic. It is a civilopedia problem - and so I think this is fixed now, there can exist several more of them, especially in parts of the civilopedia, that were written in different phases of the mod long ago and are not been used a lot during the games.
This is also a civilopedia problem due to an old entry for that building with a GOOD_ key. It is now fixed by changing GOOD_ to BLDG_
In the next version of RARR the monastery is set to the traits scientific and religious and needing incense in the city. It now will become obsolete by an era 3 tech, but I still have to decide what tech fits best (in time and with an open slot in the techbox).
So, you are thinking of setting the monastery to traits of scientific and religious. Does that mean that only those civilizations will be able to construct it? If you plan on making the monastery go obsolete, I would suggest either printing press (one of the "scientific" purposes of monasteries was the preservation of older books by hand copying them and the need for copying obviously declined with the printing press). If you use this early obsolete, the monastery should be significantly cheaper, possibly even less than academy/library, which are permanent city improvements. A later obsolete would be radio. This would also probably require a slight downward revision in the cost of the monastery.
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