Role Play Challenge: Peter Spy Extraordinaire

[Halt]

Can you get any other AI's to help you in a war with Ragnar? You need to take out the two holy cities they will help your economy and you can't allow Ragnar to have them.

However you need to get out of Hindu to lose that diplomatic penalty, you also risk the AI's mad for attacking their friend.

Try to steal Metal Casting for defensive of the seas and....

Obviously sue for peace with Ragnar as quickly as possible after this.

The Religon issues will be tricky...

Good fun so far.

 

[Hereditary Rule]

I would attack Ragner - He's already Financial and techs very well for an AI so giving him all this extra shrine income seems wrong.

On the flip side, not attacking ensures you'll have a fast teching AI to steal techs from all day long.

 

[Puzzlemaker]

Don't attack yet... Use diplomacy to try to get people to dogpile on Ragnar. You can use spies to change someones religion, if enough of their cities have it, so you might be able to get a few positive points with that. Also use spies to cripple Ragnar if you can.

 

[Halt]

You have a quest that gives you 4/5 free Swordsman if you move quickly and take Timbuktu.

I think you need to take the active decision to get off Hindu and start making friends having them attack Ragnar after you engage, then making peace first with Ragnar.

If you do not attack now you will lose the Two Shrine cities to the AI's. If someone else takes out the Jewish Shrine before you get there what will you do attack them as well? Three wars would be killer....


Wow... Great fun!

 

[Blizzard15]

I think u should see if you can get a small fleet to scope out Ragnar's fleet 1st, and then attack if it is small

 

[madscientist]

Peter Spy Extraordinaire: Part IV

OK Folks, we played out the game for a bit and stole some techs. I will show what we did, not too bad. However, our impending doom is approaching and I see no way out of it. SO while I will play this out to the bitter end, perhaps we should reconsider this spy economy and how to approach it in another RPC.

With limited screenshots, We declared war on Ragnar and took the holy Hindu city. We then marcked onto The Judaist holy city only to realize we were inefficiently manned ot take it (damn Skirmishers). We declared peace with Mansa. Also during this time Degaulle declares war on us. We eventually we get peace with Ragnar and Degaulle (at the cost of meditation).

Bottom line is we have the Hindu holy city and peace.

We popped a GS which we built Scottland yard in the horse city.

We are popping our espionage up well. we stoil;e several tech and made decent trades, actullay stealing up to fuesdalism for longbows.

We even go Justinian to

Which shocked me

We popped a Prophet in the Hindi holy city which we used for a GA. All l.ooks well until

The problem is that in Malinese territory is a massive stack of Zulu warriors that We cannot defend against.

I has to be heading towards us. I cannot figure a way to stop is as Shaka keeps giving me "We have enough on our hands".. We have never gotten a buddhist city, so that option is out.

Basically I see this RPC as a failure . Although alot of poster swear by the EE, my feeling playing it is that it's a bit impotent as you are always playing behind the leader. I am still considering an EE game, but perhaps with an always peace option forcing a complete game of diplomacy and espionage for a win.

Any comments? If we can defend against Shaka I am willing to play the game out. If we lose the Hindu holy city things look real bleak.

 

[TRJS]

I assume you have tried trading with something to Shaka to force ten turns of peace.

 

[Halt]

You are right...If Shaka attacks you it is over...

I have played only a few EE games and they are fun to play.

I think adopting a religion unless it is the universal religon is too limiting on your diplomacy and you are better off not adopting any as the diplomatic hit is too great.

If I was even half as good explainer as you I would post my games.

The EE's I run tend to be more of an SE/EE Hybrid with Fredrick of Germany with limited cottages (1 city maybe) until post Democracy (unless nothing else an option).

Sorry friend I can not be much more help.

 

[absimiliard]

My gut is that an EE needs to use it's first GSpy to infiltrate the tech-leader. Then you steal all the cheap stuff while doing deep beelines with your own research.

-abs

 

[semirami]

I assume you have tried trading with something to Shaka to force ten turns of peace.

I think Shaka is not that stupid. Even with 10 turns delay, I still cant see, how you'll defend against this stuck. The best units you have are axes and swords. It's just a hopeless situation.

Why not shut down this game and try another?
If you are not familiar with the EE, there is no shame, if you decrease the difficulty level.

 

[madscientist]

Well friends, as we discussed this I tried it out and lost all but one city to the Zulu.

SO as I have handled a wide assortment of styles in teh RPC games, I tanked the first EE game.

No shame as these are fun, but for the life of me I cannot see how to get this strat to work. I mean The other AIs have techs that decimate my military. Diplomacy only goes so far!!!

So we have several options

1) Play the EE style game again as this was, but lowering the difficulty and using the first GS to infiltrate, then go from there.
2) Play a normal tech game until a later point the switch over.
3) Play a peace always game (I never played this and would be interested) with the EE tules and see if we can win diplomatic or space.
4) Move onto the next RPC.

 

[Puzzlemaker]

I just tried a EE game. It was interesting.

I went the way of religion, which was helpful. I got open borders, spammed missionaries and spies. I then used a lot of those spies to change peoples religion for the diplomatic and espionage boost.

I also didn't switch to an EE right away, which also helped.

Try it again, but this time, don't switch to an EE immediately. Get your economy in place, fight the early wars, ect, before you do. It seems to me you can't really run an EE until you get courthouses at least for the spy specialist. It should be a diplomacy game up until CoL.

 

[Halt]

1) Play the EE style game again as this was, but lowering the difficulty and using the first GS to infiltrate, then go from there.
2) Play a normal tech game until a later point the switch over.
3) Play a peace always game (I never played this and would be interested) with the EE tules and see if we can win diplomatic or space.
4) Move onto the next RPC.

1. Use the first spy as a settled 2nd for scotland yard (IMHO)
2. I keep spy slider at no more than 20-30% until I get to "Paper"
3. Bah peace is for kids
4. I do not think you are having much fun running this game I think you should move on.


I have attached a save game I am playing now just so you can get a sense of what i am doing. What I am in the process of doing is building a "defensive" military and a swift reaction force, stealing Enginnering from Mao, Steal Feudalism from Brennus, starting the process of after that of getting the world to war while "I Spy" and target a weak link that will help my diplomatic situation.

 

[absimiliard]

Halt makes a good point. If you aren't having fun with it you should move on.

-abs

 

[madscientist]

To be honest, stealing the techs had a certain charm to it but I felt the game was going nowhere. More of a novelty feel than a real game. However, I like the idea of playing a game utilizing the espionage feature. So I think I'll alter it a bit

1) I'll use espionage as I see fit. Stealing techs while behind seams like playing from aposition of weakness with no clear victory path.
2) I think first GS goes on a mission but that can change.
3) Diplomacy is still the main objective.
4) Cornering the corp market is a main goal.

So perhaps a series of upping the ep slider
A) 10-20% after alphabet
B) 30-40% after paper as per Halt's suggestion
C) 50-60% after democracy and communism
D) 60-80% once the espionage building structure are intact.

Espionage is an important and fun aspect of BTS but I have never quitte gotten it right, so I am interested in trying this again. But palying from a position of weakness all game doesn't make sense.

Now to illustrate the power of corps and Ep to help diplomacy I would like to keep a smaller, compact empire. SO maybe 6-10 cities max.

Sound like a plan???

I'll likely still play as Peter.

 

[Halt]

To be honest, stealing the techs had a certain charm to it but I felt the game was going nowhere. More of a novelty feel than a real game.

I agree... If all you are doing is EE you are basicly the Soviets stealing last years secrets trying to figure out how to install them with an economy looking for better farming and you bring back a Compass.

1) I'll use espionage as I see fit. Stealing techs while behind seams like playing from aposition of weakness with no clear victory path.
2) I think first GS goes on a mission but that can change.
3) Diplomacy is still the main objective.
4) Cornering the corp market is a main goal.
.

1. Agreed... EE is a combo of stealing techs + sabotage of the enemy. I agree Victory paths are less clear until late game.
2. Unless you you are certain you know who the leader is going to be it could be an expensive mistake.

So perhaps a series of upping the ep slider
A) 10-20% after alphabet
B) 30-40% after paper as per Halt's suggestion
C) 50-60% after democracy and communism
D) 60-80% once the espionage building structure are intact.

I am not upping the slider past 30-40% until I get Castles going. Then the 25% Bonus kicks in.

I think the key thing is unlike an SE or CE the EE is more of a tool rather than an ecomomy booster. Too much too soon places you on a sprial down it is hard to battle back from... Just like the Soviets.... Interesting how it mirrors history!

 

[Hackapell]

I know you've started the next game thread, but here are a few espionage -related thread that may be useful.

EE with no Gspy Infiltration

With GSpy infiltration
Recovering from a REX by espionage

Hope this helps!

 

[madscientist]

I know you've started the next game thread, but here are a few espionage -related thread that may be useful.

EE with no Gspy Infiltration

With GSpy infiltration
Recovering from a REX by espionage

Hope this helps!

Thanks!!! I will definitely read these before starting the next attamept at the Russian Spy.

 

[shyuhe]

There was a successful EE SG game a while ago. Emperor with 100% espionage after alphabet:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=235474

The two keys are 1) you have to be militarily aggressive and get lots of land to secure production (to compensate for the lack of a tech lead) and 2) you need to play diplomacy very well.

In this game, did you try bribing Mansa to stop trading with Shaka? That will close borders and stop Shaka's troops from reaching you.

 

[matthewthegreat]

3) Play a peace always game (I never played this and would be interested) with the EE tules and see if we can win diplomatic or space.

I have only played one game doing a EE but I thought it was great for war. The down side of a EE is you can not get more advanced then you rivals and you can not chose your tech path. but the up side to it is the fact that techs cost less in a EE and some buildings give you free EPs so you have more money for rushing and upgrading units you also can spend money on unit support. so what I found is you don't defeat your enemies with more advanced units but instead with MORE units!