Role Play Challenge: SeaFaring Victoria

[Carabodes]

Love it, congrats!

Nice job with Qin - and at the same time showing the others that you're not to be messed with.

Looking forward to the summery

 

[madscientist]

To recap the RPC Game

1) A Trade ecnomy can work!!!! Not just to get enough military techs to crush someone, but as a game long economy to will teh space race.
2) Never built a single cottage although we did take advantage of those already in place within the 5 conquered cities. Now, I ran this economy to hopefully prove a point, that the TE can work very nicely given the right map and early wonders. I will say it is NOT the most efficient way I could have played it, cottaging would have been the best way to manage the cities on the eastern part of the continent. ON the other hand, working all those sea tiles was the best way to leverage the financial trait as there were very few rivers to explot.
3) Diplomacy pays off, even with agressive AIs. I was able to settle copper with city 2, and block DeGaulle off with city #3 (I am still puzzled why DeGaulle did not move up yto the critical juntion to block me off). I took DeGaulle's iron out early, then moved onto his core once I had Fuedalism. I also kept Shaka relatively happy being the same religion and overseas. Once DeGaulle was out of the way and I had a navy I could rest abit regarding AI agression. Kicking Shaka off the continent was the final thing to solidify our continent.
4) TEchpath was rather unconverntional for me. We dragged out the GL for a very long time, but by the time we got corporation there was a slight but no disasterous rop in trade route commerce. Obsoleting the Colossus had no bad effects since Astronomy providing a boost from foreign trade.
5) Privateers were used primarily against Shaka (Charles and Darius could defend themselves from them) which netted me 2 GGs. They were fun and productive. Very sorry to see them go but against Frigates they do not stand up long. BTS needs a destroyer Privateer.
6) Science: For all the commerce from trade routes, we never built an academy (I am not sure if Paris had one) and got OXford so late it was never a big help. And still won a space race.
7) GPs: Great Merchants were fantastic in keeping the economy stronge. Those 2 Prophets early on were a real pain, both used in later GAs with another GP. I would have preferred to have 2 extra Merchants and no GAs. GPs were used for trade missions, GAs, corps. Never bulbed a tech, never built any GP building.
8) CORPS: OK where is that thread asking if corps are helping you win. Getting the GE for the Mining Corp was the pivotal turning event of the game. I was getting an extra 12-17 hammers (before building effects) per city with minimal cost. The General Cereals corp has less of an effect but gained us a much larger profit. Corps absolutely rule.
9) Agressive AIs were very happy to battle each other to our profit, to be honest in this situation it made the game easier. It killed there own trade economy, to our benefit. A stronge Navy and decent powergraph numbers kept most off our backs. Once went to FR Charles was much less of a threat, Darius proved to be generally peaceful even with agressive AI, Shaka an Stalin were so tech behind they were non-issues. Qin proved to be the classic backstabber but we were prepared.

Finally, some ideas about the reade economy.

The ToA was more of a problem than worth simply because or the 2 Prophets I got. Next time I go down this route and get the ToA I will make sure to get one of the later religions so I can get a shrine.

The Great Lighthouse is one of the most powerful wonders in the game given the right map. To double the AIs trade route before economics/corporation is just Brutal. To get the most out of it requires alot of diplomacy. What most do not do on these forums is prioritize sailing early enough.

Another comment/observation regarding BTS 3.13, can anyone have more than 1 vassal? Everytime one AI beat up another and vassaled them, the other vassal broke away. Happened to me also in another game. I like it as it makes domination a little easier, and UN diplomatic win more challenging.

Well, that's enough for now. I'll try another RPC game in a few weeks. Let me know if you have any questions about the game

Thanks for the interest.

Edit: Paris did in fact come with an academy. We produced three Prophets, all were used indifferent GAs.

 

[Carabodes]

Thank you so much for the good game, I’ve really enjoyed it immensely.

You don’t mention the Internet, so I’ll put in some remarks:
The beeline to the Net was primarily done to be able to snatch some techs. But Darius being so way ahead of the others (and the only one that really was your competitor tech-wise) made the profit from the Net negligible apart from getting Fission for free (although you did make some money off DR).
In hindsight I would say that wasting hammers on the Internet is only worth it if several AIs are on the more or less same technology level or if the AI has Computers and you want to snatch the Net, thus preventing the AI from getting free techs.
It was my suggestion in the first place, and I think I’ve learned yet another lesson on the road towards “No excessive wonder-building!”

A Trade ecnomy can work!!!!

Not only can it work, I was surprised to see how well it worked, good income and slider high almost all trough the game. It’s definitely a good alternative to the other kinds of economies, especially with a lot of coastal cities.

Diplomacy pays off, even with agressive AIs… … … Agressive AIs were very happy to battle each other to our profit, to be honest in this situation it made the game easier. It killed there own trade economy, to our benefit. A stronge Navy and decent powergraph numbers kept most off our backs. Once went to FR Charles was much less of a threat, Darius proved to be generally peaceful even with agressive AI, Shaka an Stalin were so tech behind they were non-issues. Qin proved to be the classic backstabber but we were prepared.

With those neighbours, I was expecting much more warfare towards you, but your good balancing of diplomatic relations and keeping a good eye on the power graph let you “live a relatively peaceful life”, almost all wars were fought amongst the AIs (which I loved ).

TEchpath was rather unconverntional for me. We dragged out the GL for a very long time, but by the time we got corporation there was a slight but no disasterous rop in trade route commerce.

Although unconventional, combining the loss of the GL with the construction of airports turned out to be a very good move, it kept the income steadily flowing even if it did delay the construction of Wall Street. It would have been nice to know if it was better than building Wall Street earlier on, maybe your unconventional tech-path is the way to go on a more regular basis?

BTS needs a destroyer Privateer.

Oh, yes, I’ve missed that many a time!

Getting the GE for the Mining Corp was the pivotal turning event of the game. I was getting an extra 12-17 hammers (before building effects) per city with minimal cost. The General Cereals corp has less of an effect but gained us a much larger profit. Corps absolutely rule.

The hammer boost from Mining Inc. was “just what the doctor’s ordered”. It was a joy to see you hammer output going up … up … up …
You never did go international with your corps, though, I wonder what that would have done to your revenue.

I'll try another RPC game in a few weeks.

Oh, yes, please do, I’ll be looking forward to it.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Congrats, feel guilty about recommending the ToA now after you getting 3 prophets.

Enjoy the Guinness!

 

[madscientist]

Congrats, feel guilty about recommending the ToA now after you getting 3 prophets.

Enjoy the Guinness!

Thanks. The ToA was a good suggestion and the purpose of the ganme was to test out the trade economy. We now know that the ToA is secondary in this type economy.

 

[TRJS]

Perhaps the ToA needs to be built in a city that will not generate Great People. That might take some shuffling around but should be possible.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Well the thing with the ToA is you want it in a high pop coastal city with a harbour and a castle.

 

[mice]

You never did go international with your corps, though, I wonder what that would have done to your revenue.

I think it's crazy to give hammers to the opposition. Revenue at that stage in the game can't be converted into victory nearly as well as hammers can.

Great game madscientist. Really enjoyed it.

 

[madscientist]

Thank you so much for the good game, I’ve really enjoyed it immensely.

You don’t mention the Internet, so I’ll put in some remarks:
The beeline to the Net was primarily done to be able to snatch some techs. But Darius being so way ahead of the others (and the only one that really was your competitor tech-wise) made the profit from the Net negligible apart from getting Fission for free (although you did make some money off DR).
In hindsight I would say that wasting hammers on the Internet is only worth it if several AIs are on the more or less same technology level or if the AI has Computers and you want to snatch the Net, thus preventing the AI from getting free techs.
It was my suggestion in the first place, and I think I’ve learned yet another lesson on the road towards “No excessive wonder-building!”

One free critical tech is worth the hammers. LOndon would have been building military units anyway which were pretty insignificant

Not only can it work, I was surprised to see how well it worked, good income and slider high almost all trough the game. It’s definitely a good alternative to the other kinds of economies, especially with a lot of coastal cities.

Yes it can which I knew from experience. Talking about and showing it are twop different things. Again I could have done better if I did build cottages, but the point was to show the power of coastal cities combined with certian wonders.

With those neighbours, I was expecting much more warfare towards you, but your good balancing of diplomatic relations and keeping a good eye on the power graph let you “live a relatively peaceful life”, almost all wars were fought amongst the AIs (which I loved ).

Power graph and the navy sitting off the coast. Plus lack of reason, those AIs really hated each other. I was fortunate to take out the biggest threat early.

Although unconventional, combining the loss of the GL with the construction of airports turned out to be a very good move, it kept the income steadily flowing even if it did delay the construction of Wall Street. It would have been nice to know if it was better than building Wall Street earlier on, maybe your unconventional tech-path is the way to go on a more regular basis?

The optimaltechpath for theis economy requires a little thinking outside the box. Wall streat was not even worth the hammers until I got the corp.

Oh, yes, I’ve missed that many a time!

The hammer boost from Mining Inc. was “just what the doctor’s ordered”. It was a joy to see you hammer output going up … up … up …
You never did go international with your corps, though, I wonder what that would have done to your revenue.

My view on corps are that they give you a real edge over the AI. Why would I spread it to another? I guess Degaulle was a possibility but I did not want to risk him spreading it to Darius. Money was not an issue for the corps, it was about production and food.

Oh, yes, please do, I’ll be looking forward to it.

Thinking of a less-serious diplomativc game with Washington or another instructive game with Saladin using a religious economy.

Thanks for the input. Good to have feedback as the posting of screenshots are time consuming.

 

[madscientist]

Perhaps the ToA needs to be built in a city that will not generate Great People. That might take some shuffling around but should be possible.

ToA is AI popular so I needed to get it through a GE (not happening in my game) of London. It's an odd wonder, if I ran a religious economy desiring Prophets I would have gotten too many Great Merchants.

Still the +100% trade yield was not insignificant, nor were the GA's from the prophet a bid thing. Glad I built it, and I would not have if the suggestion were not made.

 

[madscientist]

I think it's crazy to give hammers to the opposition. Revenue at that stage in the game can't be converted into victory nearly as well as hammers can.

Great game madscientist. Really enjoyed it.

I agree, in a space race I don't want Darius (or any AI) with that production. Bad enough there's alot of coasts.

Thanks for the interest.

 

[madscientist]

Well the thing with the ToA is you want it in a high pop coastal city with a harbour and a castle.

Castles should fit better into this strat. It's just that economics and the free Great Merchant/Free Trade is a big thing and it's a different techpath form liberalism (guilds/banking vs. Philosphy).

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Agreed, ToA city is the only place I ever build a castle normally (and I capture it from the AI rather than build it myself). It's good to boost the TE though.

 

[Carabodes]

I think it's crazy to give hammers to the opposition. Revenue at that stage in the game can't be converted into victory nearly as well as hammers can.

I didn't mean he should have done it, and especially not with Mining Inc. (He had Cereal Mills as well.)
I was just generally curious about the size of the revenue from corporations, since I've only used them once myself, and to my economic ruin.

Guess I'll have to give it another go myself, and see if I can make better than last time I tried. (But before I do, I'll go and read up on "The power of Sushi"-article.)

 

[mice]

Guess I'll have to give it another go myself, and see if I can make better than last time I tried. (But before I do, I'll go and read up on "The power of Sushi"-article.)

It all changed with the patch. Now your gold/turn can go up when you found a new branch. State property can still be good though with +10% prod.

 

[Carabodes]

It all changed with the patch. Now your gold/turn can go up when you found a new branch. State property can still be good though with +10% prod.

And I never patched because of OOS-problems in IP-direct connect, so I'll never see the benefit of money from corps, then. So I'll just continue with my State property, which I've always loved anyway.

 

[madscientist]

And I never patched because of OOS-problems in IP-direct connect, so I'll never see the benefit of money from corps, then. So I'll just continue with my State property, which I've always loved anyway.

The Corps are still very powerful even without the patch. You just have to make sure they are built in the Wall Street city and you limit the number of resources you get for them (You cannottrade for surplus like I did in this game).

There are laos some unofficial patches that address some of the corp issues that you may want to try.

 

[Carabodes]

Thanks for the input. Good to have feedback as the posting of screenshots are time consuming.

It's me that should be thanking you. I know all those screenies indeed are timeconsuming, makes them all the more appreciated. Beeing able to follow your game up close even though I haven't patched was great, and I've learned a lot.

The Corps are still very powerful even without the patch. You just have to make sure they are built in the Wall Street city and you limit the number of resources you get for them (You cannottrade for surplus like I did in this game).

Did you mean I can't trade for surplus resources because that would kill me financially, or did you mean I'm not allowed to trade for surplus resources?

The one time I did try out corps - Sid's Sushi -(the same day the game entered my mailbox, had to try out every new feature at once, never mind the RTFM), I did have it in my Wall Street city. However, I did then not know that you were supposed to grab as many sources of the needed resources as possible. I discovered that by trading for another resource (think the deal was supposed to be silver for gems iirc), and the AI then threw something like 5 fishes, 3 mussels and a couple of rice into the deal. Was it me accepting all those sushi-resources that killed my economy? 'Cause obviously I'm allowed to trade for them, even without patching.

There are laos some unofficial patches that address some of the corp issues that you may want to try.

Then I'll have to make my MP/IP-connect friend patch too, or else the OOS-problems would skyrocket! (And stubborn as we are, we don't want to even try disabling random events, they're too much fun, even the disastrous ones - when they hit the other party! )

Anyway, thanks again for all your help, and the good game.

I'll filter through the articles-section to improve myself and do the best of my 3.03-version while working around my stubborn "No, I will not not patch"-issues. (Surprisingly, 3.03 has never given me problems, all it apparently did was fix the extremely silly UAC-issues with Vista.)

 

[madscientist]

Did you mean I can't trade for surplus resources because that would kill me financially, or did you mean I'm not allowed to trade for surplus resources?
:

I mean it will kill you financially.

 

[Carabodes]

Okey, now I see, :suicide:
Never again will I jump to the AI baite that makes me kill myself.