Silv Something
Pi(e) Loving Maniac
Sub post + love the title: "Mad Scientists, A New World Order: Taking Control of the Weak Minded".
Role Play Challenge, TNG: Mad Scientist, A New World Order
- Thread starter madscientist
- Start date
Maybe something like Isolated or Xenophobic as a name instead then? Secretive conjures a more "cloak and dagger" image, not a "fish and seed-planter" image.
iggymnrr
Deity
- Joined
- May 20, 2003
- Messages
- 2,298
0% economies are still economies. Want some sick fun try TMIT's suggestion of a creative leader as Arabia between two dangerous AI's. They won't get bent out of shape at the culture press, they'll bend over. Then throw sushi at them. Worked well for me as Pericles on a Terra.
vicawoo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 3,226
Industrious, seafaring look amazing, and financial is still probably good. Philosophical, I'm betting you can use it to expand extremely aggressively and hit 0% slider without stalling your economy. In the face of those overpowered traits, protective, imperialistic, aggressive, creative and some others look awful. Charismatic might still be ok. No idea about secretive, on one hand you get food, on the other can it really keep up with a more ubiquitous +1 hammer or +1 commerce? If you can accumulate enough espionage for an early city revolt, maybe it's good.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Mad Scientist, A New World Order: What Happens When Fools are Left in Charge
SLAVE! I GROW TIRED. YOU AR IN CHARGE WHILE I REST, DO NOT SCREW UP.
"uhm, yeah don't screw up" The simple Brennus tells the now dormant voice in his head. The Celts decide a simple techpace, knowign they are nor a supposedly Secretive people rather then Spiritual, they beeline alphabet after finishing alphabet.
Nice man Shaka sending settlers to south.
Big boss voice won't be happy, he wanted to block Zulu.
And Sumemria is to the south
As the Zulu settle the coast
Ohh, big boss voice be mad. We better settle next area big boss wanted
This good, nice Shaka man blockade entire south and west, er, yeah west for Celtics so Summeria no settle.
We settle another city for copper. Celtics make mighty warriors with big axes, scare Summeria away.
Brennus smart, be learn his letters
we make big trade with Summeria!
Yeah, Celticia have iron, make bigger axes.
But mean Shaka not so nice
Brennus use slavery to ship big axeman, save Bribrate, Big boss voice be happY
Oops
YOU IDIOT, WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE. I TURN MY BACK FOR ONE MILLENIUM AND THIS IS WHAT I FIND! STEP ASIDE MY INTELLECUALLY CHALLENGED OAF, LET ME SHOW HOW THINGS ARE
"But mean Shaka?"
I WILL FIX THAT. RESTART THE GAME, AND WE WILL PLAY IT MY WAY!
"You can do that??"
YOU BET I CAN!
Yes folks, I restarted the game after this disasterous play! I want to play out the Mod at least once, so I am going to post what I did on the replay. You can consider this a loss, a restart, a cheat, whatever. After all, it is my Mod!
SLAVE! I GROW TIRED. YOU AR IN CHARGE WHILE I REST, DO NOT SCREW UP.
"uhm, yeah don't screw up" The simple Brennus tells the now dormant voice in his head. The Celts decide a simple techpace, knowign they are nor a supposedly Secretive people rather then Spiritual, they beeline alphabet after finishing alphabet.
Nice man Shaka sending settlers to south.
Big boss voice won't be happy, he wanted to block Zulu.
And Sumemria is to the south
As the Zulu settle the coast
Ohh, big boss voice be mad. We better settle next area big boss wanted
This good, nice Shaka man blockade entire south and west, er, yeah west for Celtics so Summeria no settle.
We settle another city for copper. Celtics make mighty warriors with big axes, scare Summeria away.
Brennus smart, be learn his letters
we make big trade with Summeria!
Yeah, Celticia have iron, make bigger axes.
But mean Shaka not so nice
Brennus use slavery to ship big axeman, save Bribrate, Big boss voice be happY
Oops
YOU IDIOT, WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU DONE. I TURN MY BACK FOR ONE MILLENIUM AND THIS IS WHAT I FIND! STEP ASIDE MY INTELLECUALLY CHALLENGED OAF, LET ME SHOW HOW THINGS ARE
"But mean Shaka?"
I WILL FIX THAT. RESTART THE GAME, AND WE WILL PLAY IT MY WAY!
"You can do that??"
YOU BET I CAN!
Yes folks, I restarted the game after this disasterous play! I want to play out the Mod at least once, so I am going to post what I did on the replay. You can consider this a loss, a restart, a cheat, whatever. After all, it is my Mod!
.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Mad Scientist, A New World Order: What Happens when a Man of Genius is put in Charge
OK, obviously my mistake for once again underestimating Shaka. New strategy, we start by building an archer
Followed by whipping out a settler
It is pointless to try and block off Shaka, we need to build a fast military and claiming the copper is the best way.
Before I get any further, the tech path
writing/fishing/sailing/pottery/alphabet and saved
And here
Yes Shaka goes after the same spot to settle. We let him whiel we settle
And set both workers to build a road and copper mine.
Looking to make friends with someone not planning to kill us
although we have to wait until sailing to get a foreing trade route.
And here you can see where Shaka dropped his city
Quickly we get the copepr hooked up to build
Axemen! The happy cap is 7 right now and that will expand in a bit, nice NOT have to worry about monarchy! Also we can get those cheap collesiums at construction for 2 happy faces (one normal and an extra for being charismatic).
As with the Brennus fiasco, Shaka continues to try and surround up, however, we are not building settlers, we are building military. Let the Zulu stretch out his defenses!
And here you can see what happens when a Mad Scientist has control rather than a hapless Celtic Moron
Not knowing what to expect in Shaka's lands, we aimed for the nearest city
While not the best, it does have corn (6 food for us) and cuts the Zulu empire in half.
This leaves Shaka a little confused and we leverage that indecision to move on towards his capital
I promoted the axemen mostly along the combat line, followed by shock. Being Charismatic they get promoted very fast!
In a gamble we manage to take Ulandi
and start whipping out archers to defend it! We also allowed our army to heal here.
Shaka did send a stack against Vienne, but we had a dun, 2 guerilla II archers and whipped an axeman which fought off the stack. Worked well for us because with the Great Wall we got
Settled him in Vienne which is our temporary military production capital.
Also we find that Confuscianism has spread to us
Founded by Gilgamesh, also adopted by Shaka, it solidifes relations with Sumemria so we do not face a two fronted war!
Next we got our first Great person
We use him to build Scotland Yard, I plan to still leverage the Secretive Trait, although not as early as I had hoped.
Once the army healed in Ulandi, we sent it North to take the next Zulu coastal city
Lucky for us we have a good road system already built and this city has quicte a few beaver!
While the Celtic army was terrorizing the home cities of Shaka, we constructed an second army to start picking off the oversettled cities
Nice of Shaka to build all these cities for us, saves us building settlers.
As our economy started to crash (-6 gold at 0% science meant restructring tiles worked) to to support research to get alphabet we whipped out a library to run some scientists.
And after finishing a lighthouse in Tosla
Getting the extra food from the crabs!
We started moving troops towards the last northern coastal city of Shaka, but unfortunately left the beaver city too weakly defended.
Tried to send troops from 2 directions and Shaka had catapults to take out the srcher. Hey, even us genius Mad Scientists make mistakes!
The next Great general was settled in Bribrate, giving us two cities to produce ,ilitary with 2 promotions.
We continue the plan on capturing the Zulu coastal city
Just as we finish researching alphabet!
The situation
Alot of possibilities so I wanted to stop and get some suggestions.
Right now Shaka will give us meditiation for peace and Gilgamesh will trade us either math or iron working for alphabet.
We also have enough eps against either leader to steal any tech, I am thinking of stealing HBR from Shaka and IW from Gilgamesh, but I do need a few spies (yes spies get 100% production bonus for Secretive leaders, I will alther the second post listing it).
The map
Shows where most of the Zulu cities are, although there are more as he has 6 cities total.
Finally, the cities
and espionage
So the biggest questions are
1) do we continue the war against Shaka (I would at least like to get the beaver city back).
2) Do we fire off the trade with Gilgamesh and start leveraging the Secretive trait while we can. Gilgamesh is also Secretive and has the early Ziggarets, however we have more cities which give us a slight espionage edge (as well as a Scotland Yard).
OK, obviously my mistake for once again underestimating Shaka. New strategy, we start by building an archer
Followed by whipping out a settler
It is pointless to try and block off Shaka, we need to build a fast military and claiming the copper is the best way.
Before I get any further, the tech path
writing/fishing/sailing/pottery/alphabet and saved
And here
Yes Shaka goes after the same spot to settle. We let him whiel we settle
And set both workers to build a road and copper mine.
Looking to make friends with someone not planning to kill us
although we have to wait until sailing to get a foreing trade route.
And here you can see where Shaka dropped his city
Quickly we get the copepr hooked up to build
Axemen! The happy cap is 7 right now and that will expand in a bit, nice NOT have to worry about monarchy! Also we can get those cheap collesiums at construction for 2 happy faces (one normal and an extra for being charismatic).
As with the Brennus fiasco, Shaka continues to try and surround up, however, we are not building settlers, we are building military. Let the Zulu stretch out his defenses!
And here you can see what happens when a Mad Scientist has control rather than a hapless Celtic Moron
Not knowing what to expect in Shaka's lands, we aimed for the nearest city
While not the best, it does have corn (6 food for us) and cuts the Zulu empire in half.
This leaves Shaka a little confused and we leverage that indecision to move on towards his capital
I promoted the axemen mostly along the combat line, followed by shock. Being Charismatic they get promoted very fast!
In a gamble we manage to take Ulandi
and start whipping out archers to defend it! We also allowed our army to heal here.
Shaka did send a stack against Vienne, but we had a dun, 2 guerilla II archers and whipped an axeman which fought off the stack. Worked well for us because with the Great Wall we got
Settled him in Vienne which is our temporary military production capital.
Also we find that Confuscianism has spread to us
Founded by Gilgamesh, also adopted by Shaka, it solidifes relations with Sumemria so we do not face a two fronted war!
Next we got our first Great person
We use him to build Scotland Yard, I plan to still leverage the Secretive Trait, although not as early as I had hoped.
Once the army healed in Ulandi, we sent it North to take the next Zulu coastal city
Lucky for us we have a good road system already built and this city has quicte a few beaver!
While the Celtic army was terrorizing the home cities of Shaka, we constructed an second army to start picking off the oversettled cities
Nice of Shaka to build all these cities for us, saves us building settlers.
As our economy started to crash (-6 gold at 0% science meant restructring tiles worked) to to support research to get alphabet we whipped out a library to run some scientists.
And after finishing a lighthouse in Tosla
Getting the extra food from the crabs!
We started moving troops towards the last northern coastal city of Shaka, but unfortunately left the beaver city too weakly defended.
Tried to send troops from 2 directions and Shaka had catapults to take out the srcher. Hey, even us genius Mad Scientists make mistakes!
The next Great general was settled in Bribrate, giving us two cities to produce ,ilitary with 2 promotions.
We continue the plan on capturing the Zulu coastal city
Just as we finish researching alphabet!
The situation
Alot of possibilities so I wanted to stop and get some suggestions.
Right now Shaka will give us meditiation for peace and Gilgamesh will trade us either math or iron working for alphabet.
We also have enough eps against either leader to steal any tech, I am thinking of stealing HBR from Shaka and IW from Gilgamesh, but I do need a few spies (yes spies get 100% production bonus for Secretive leaders, I will alther the second post listing it).
The map
Shows where most of the Zulu cities are, although there are more as he has 6 cities total.
Finally, the cities
and espionage
So the biggest questions are
1) do we continue the war against Shaka (I would at least like to get the beaver city back).
2) Do we fire off the trade with Gilgamesh and start leveraging the Secretive trait while we can. Gilgamesh is also Secretive and has the early Ziggarets, however we have more cities which give us a slight espionage edge (as well as a Scotland Yard).
Proofeta
Chieftain
Looks like the big bad zulu owned you 
I would stop the war to rebuild the economy, but I think that capturing the beaver city wouldn't hurt.
I would stop the war to rebuild the economy, but I think that capturing the beaver city wouldn't hurt.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Whoever was chastising me for using chariots vs zulu can see the alternative rush plan in action now.
This is exactly why the fact that Sisuitil won't change his advice on chariots in his rush guide really annoys me. We have a close-to-worst case scenario for chariots vs axes, and the chariots still win out just because the resource is a bit closer and they move faster...meaning I saw WAY less resistance than mad did.
This is exactly why the fact that Sisuitil won't change his advice on chariots in his rush guide really annoys me. We have a close-to-worst case scenario for chariots vs axes, and the chariots still win out just because the resource is a bit closer and they move faster...meaning I saw WAY less resistance than mad did.
Yes, but you were playing with the odds, if your invasion had hit a dead stop you would had been
ed.... ive been there, even on Noble...i'd admit, the faster movement is a win 5 less hammers ect ect ect... but, im not risking a loss, not again...
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Yes, but you were playing with the odds, if your invasion had hit a dead stop you would had been
i'd admit, the faster movement is a win 5 less hammers ect ect ect... but, im not risking a loss, not again...
An eye on the power graph and unit spam reduces the factor the RNG plays.
For the first 3 cities I struck (which had the vast majority of his production and his only metal was cut the turn after I declared), I hit cities with around triple the # of attackers as defenders. Shaka does not have protective archers. The only way I lose is if every damned unit was an impi ---> and the AI does not do that.
Note: I had 16 chariots sitting on shaka's border by the time mad could even hook up his copper to the capitol. On top of that, the stack moves @ 2/turn and would kill the average AI defense composition more consistently. If anything is "playing with the RNG", it's delaying the rush and hitting weaker/slower initially.
vicawoo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 3,226
Is it fair to compare an efficient chariot rush to an inefficient axe rush? 3rd city, no road to target, wasted roads, forests over unimproved mines?
And someone made an argument about barracks not being worth it if you build under 300 hammers of units from one city. Not that it usually matters, but you could send all your chops to your capital (which has a barracks) and only build unimproved units from your 2nd city.
And someone made an argument about barracks not being worth it if you build under 300 hammers of units from one city. Not that it usually matters, but you could send all your chops to your capital (which has a barracks) and only build unimproved units from your 2nd city.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
No, it's not fair actually
. I had almost 25% more hammers in the initial stack and far sooner. At least part of that, however, comes from the horses being closer/more nicely situated. I had to build very little road work and could put more turns into chops or roading towards the target (more into chops since I had faster units).I had read the thread about the barracks needing x hammers of units to be worth it, but had forgotten the #. Is it really 300? That means that very early rushes should skip it entirely. 10 axes cost 350 hammers...if even 2 are coming from city #2, a barracks is technically inefficient? That's an interesting conclusion if it is true. Similarly the cutoff is 10 chariots but if you are sending say 15 or 16 and even 1/3 come from the second city...
I dunno. 300
(normal speed) seems like it's too high for game balance, but if that's the reality it's worth minding it. Now, if it's 300 epic speed then suddenly the tradeoffs aren't so unfavorable.
Yared
That Guy
That one beaver could fuel several whips, not to mention allowing your cities to grow more...
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
For the record I have no problems with doing a chariot rush (I have done enough of them in my RPCS), and probably would have considered it against any leader other than Shaka due to the UU. That TMIT apparently did (have not checked spoilers yet) is impressive and wish I had done it.
Not to say my slow grinding axe-rush is not working, Shaka's days are numbered. The questions is what can I get from him as far as tech. I am in a position of strength right now with alphabet and can steal the next military techs I need, plus I wanted to show off my new secretive trait a little bit
SO Kuddos to TMIT!
Not to say my slow grinding axe-rush is not working, Shaka's days are numbered. The questions is what can I get from him as far as tech. I am in a position of strength right now with alphabet and can steal the next military techs I need, plus I wanted to show off my new secretive trait a little bit
SO Kuddos to TMIT!
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Mad Scientist, A New World Order: Near Extermination of the Zulu.
SO as we have alphabet and can actually build science, we start researching Currency so we can also build wealth. This was followed by Code of Laws, yes our economy is rocking with our ability to research just 2 techs!
To speed along Currency we make this trade with Gilgamesh
Getting a spy there just takes too much time at the moment.
We also decide to continue the war against Shaka
Damned right, that spot was supposed to be out third city anyway!
Next we reclaimed the beaver city for the extra happiness
It will never be large since it lacks food but the resources definitely help.
With the Zulu empire well split in half, we decided to
And spend 10 turns building units and scinece to speed along Currency
A view of the land shows
That we have numerous iron resources, although not hooked up yet. THis is OK as the UU requires only copper!
As you can see our agressive attempt to get Currency fast
Adjusting eps towards Shaka again as I have sent spies off to the cities I plan to attack next.
Finally
OK, not as bad as Satan but these long wars can sertainly slow down research. On the bright side Great Generals are being born across the ocean thus I am assuming that there is some good Buddhist/Hinduist/Judaist holy wars going on over there!
Once We have Currency we switch around a bit
Building wealth to better make use of the libraries with the slider.
After 10 turns we are ready to finish off Shaka
Note the spy in the target city, ready to send it into revolt when my stack nears it.
Definitely enough eps to take out the defenses of at least three cities
Meanwhile, all the way to the east we approach Shaka's capital.
These defenses were tougher and we lost many troops, however as far as I am concerned that less maintenance, especially since there are no more Zulu cities to the east.
We manage a good trade with Gilgamesh
While catapults are not that important now, we do have access to the fast Collesium which provides 2 happiness now (1 nornmally, and 1 for being Charismatic).
The last Zulu city that I can find falls
And for the ability to get a good tech we give Shaka peace and a chance to rebuild his empire with ONE city.
Shaka is useless as HBR is easy enough to research later and I am not all that eager to attack Gilgamesh. What I am eager to do is to further leverage the Secretive trait
I usually save here but I pushed on to finish Code of LAws.
Right now we have great land
We do have the opportunity to steal techs from Gilgamesh
However, that mission failed and we need more spies. At the same time we researched
And immediately divert all cities to start building courthouses
I should also be building a courthouse in Bribrate to leverage the Scotland Yard more. I plan to whip all the courthouses as soon as I can, and start researching metal casting/compass/machinery/optics. Specialists will be spies for not for the eps and trying to get a few more GSpies for more Scotland yeards. Once I steal techs to parity I can then simply move in a take over Sumerria. Right now I have all extra troops stationed right on the Sumemria border.
A map
OK, OK, I need to scout out Gilgamesh some more, things have been busy with Shaka.
TEchs show
So steal what Gilgamesh has, and research as I mentioned. He seams to be ignoring the MC/MAchinery path right now.
Final eps at the moment
While Gilgamesh is also Secretive, we have more cities and thus more raw eps once we get the courthouses on-line.
So what do you all think of the Secretive trait! Save to follow later tonight
SO as we have alphabet and can actually build science, we start researching Currency so we can also build wealth. This was followed by Code of Laws, yes our economy is rocking with our ability to research just 2 techs!
To speed along Currency we make this trade with Gilgamesh
Getting a spy there just takes too much time at the moment.
We also decide to continue the war against Shaka
Damned right, that spot was supposed to be out third city anyway!
Next we reclaimed the beaver city for the extra happiness
It will never be large since it lacks food but the resources definitely help.
With the Zulu empire well split in half, we decided to
And spend 10 turns building units and scinece to speed along Currency
A view of the land shows
That we have numerous iron resources, although not hooked up yet. THis is OK as the UU requires only copper!
As you can see our agressive attempt to get Currency fast
Adjusting eps towards Shaka again as I have sent spies off to the cities I plan to attack next.
Finally
OK, not as bad as Satan but these long wars can sertainly slow down research. On the bright side Great Generals are being born across the ocean thus I am assuming that there is some good Buddhist/Hinduist/Judaist holy wars going on over there!
Once We have Currency we switch around a bit
Building wealth to better make use of the libraries with the slider.
After 10 turns we are ready to finish off Shaka
Note the spy in the target city, ready to send it into revolt when my stack nears it.
Definitely enough eps to take out the defenses of at least three cities
Meanwhile, all the way to the east we approach Shaka's capital.
These defenses were tougher and we lost many troops, however as far as I am concerned that less maintenance, especially since there are no more Zulu cities to the east.
We manage a good trade with Gilgamesh
While catapults are not that important now, we do have access to the fast Collesium which provides 2 happiness now (1 nornmally, and 1 for being Charismatic).
The last Zulu city that I can find falls
And for the ability to get a good tech we give Shaka peace and a chance to rebuild his empire with ONE city.
Shaka is useless as HBR is easy enough to research later and I am not all that eager to attack Gilgamesh. What I am eager to do is to further leverage the Secretive trait
I usually save here but I pushed on to finish Code of LAws.
Right now we have great land
We do have the opportunity to steal techs from Gilgamesh
However, that mission failed and we need more spies. At the same time we researched
And immediately divert all cities to start building courthouses
I should also be building a courthouse in Bribrate to leverage the Scotland Yard more. I plan to whip all the courthouses as soon as I can, and start researching metal casting/compass/machinery/optics. Specialists will be spies for not for the eps and trying to get a few more GSpies for more Scotland yeards. Once I steal techs to parity I can then simply move in a take over Sumerria. Right now I have all extra troops stationed right on the Sumemria border.
A map
OK, OK, I need to scout out Gilgamesh some more, things have been busy with Shaka.
TEchs show
So steal what Gilgamesh has, and research as I mentioned. He seams to be ignoring the MC/MAchinery path right now.
Final eps at the moment
While Gilgamesh is also Secretive, we have more cities and thus more raw eps once we get the courthouses on-line.
So what do you all think of the Secretive trait! Save to follow later tonight
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
Very nice game so far and I love the changes you made. This brings out a whole twist to the game. If you are going to do a series with these traits then I will even watch these game closer then normal
That is one thing I have considered with this game. I may start a new series, MS-NWO, playing out games under these new rules. I am open for suggestion on changing traits/UBs/UUs/leaders although I reserved the right to make all final decision.
I would most likely come up with some rotational games though, the RPCs are still fun and popular although ideas sometimes get thin, afterall I have been playing about one a week for several years now.
I also like the earth-map and may consider RPCs with that map, pending permission from the king of the world (I already did Khan, George III, Picard, Dalai Lama). I am thinking of a World VAssalalge game, maybe as the Romans although some of those civilizations with one city (Toku/Lou/Isabella) may make things difficult. Of course there are other ideas, like removing all the New World leaders and start a civ in the Amazon (Boudica's Amazons!)
So consider this as a trial run, and look for me to be rotating three game series: RPCs, Earth-map RPCs, and MAd's World.
Regardless what I decide, You can count on the Jews next!
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