Role Play Challenge: Tokugawa the Isolationist

:mad: The RPC recap.

Well where do I start???

RPC Rules

1) Too difficult and I gotta say very boring from a player view although I cna see how it would be entertaining from a viewer option.
2) We should not have limited ourselves to a space win. Domination should have been opened up and would have allowed a more agressive game with Pericles.
3) No trading was a big time killer. You really apreciate those trades after playing a game like this!
4) Tech brokering sucks. No way I use that again.

Reasons we lost.
1) Pericles got too big and teched too well early. AI Liberalism in 950 AD, reallY!!
2) We should have left Pericles alone. Bribing the ottoman into war was a big mistake.
3) Poor early exploration, leasson learned!!! Although I think paying for those cities would have been a big problem.

Reagrding teh MAP

1) These RPCs are lay it as they come, we had crappy land but that's the way things go
2) Kudo's and a BIG thanks to Rolo :goodjob: The map was modified well for this game, and I liked adding the islands to allow settling that lower continent (if only I had done it :mad: )

Isolated starts are tough but managable. Keeping closed boprders after starting slow is a real killer.

I will open the next RPC game tonight:

GREEK GODs: Alex the God or War!

I feel the need to go smashing some people arround!!! Don't care if we win, just gotta kill something after this game. THe RPC after will be the companion game: GREEK GODs;Pericles God of Peace.

And to all shadowers, keep it up!!!
 
I do not have the ability to load the game and place screens atm... Here is my current save, we have large fleets in cities and I was just about to sally forth and level Greece with Ankara UN HQ as my eventual goal.

BTW... I keep a portion of my fleets in cities when I am not at war since I had a Bermuda Triangle event and lost a lot of ships in a previous game.

Also.... Check out my EP (Kept Castles a long time :crazyeye: )

It still says Mad as the name did not rename
 

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I guess, if you wanted to mimic Japan, you could have turtled (with tech trading) and then built up as strong military as possible, then use that to take some of the weaker opponents, then leverage the captured land (like manchuria) to gain an edge, then systematically take apart your opponents weakest to strongest like stepping stones.
 
I feel that the reason for your loss was the impossible combination of poor start, bad leader traits (warmonger traits don't work so well when you decide not to wage wars), and unreasonable rules. If you had been more willing to wage unprovoked wars, you would have had a better chance at success, however you stuck to your guns and despite the loss this was a well-played game. I wouldn't beat yourself up too much over the loss.
 
Yep, I should have opened up the military angle a bit in the rules. Wanted to see how far I could get a purely isolated start and oslationism in this game. The leader was poor for that but then again Toku is one you want to try it with!

But losing was not a big deal, the game was rather boring without at least some diplomacy to liven things up.
 
Hi, MS,
Sorry for the loss.

I just have to say that I have no issue with your self-imposed constraints/rules, they all sounded good. Just that I have a different intepretation of "strategic resources."

To me, land itself is a strategic resource. RL Japan invaded South East Asia for oil during WWII. But before that, it went to wars with China & Russia for their land only (China's oil reserve wasn't discovered then). Historically, Japanese always have some form of crisis mentality 'cause their homeland was just to small for such a pround nation.

So what you started with a small island and crappy land? In fact, it sort of fit into RL situation nicely. If you interprete things the way I do, I don't see any issue at all invading northen island or the southern island to trim the AIs.

Anyway, that's just my personal opinion and this is your game. Can't wait to see your next one. Wish you have a better luck with Alex. :lol:
 
I've teched upto the begining as far as Plastics...and would you believe it, BACKWARD Nappy, beat me there, along with his 2 vassals...Pacal, and George Wash, who he created on the Western land mass..

As we're the only one's, I hope I have a shot at the internet...

Nappy seem big on war, a few have allready completed the Apollo program, and Perciles is close to a Cultural victory, though he's at war STILL with Frederick..

It seems I'm last in tech..but I've skipped a lot...

I shot my self not trading Replaceable parts and rifling...but I thought I had a tech lead...seems they just by passed me....:lol:

My biggest problem is not trading tech's enought, Post Liberialism very rarely at all....

I've declared on by all and sundry constantly, but its all pillage with Destroyers, attacking with wooden ships, (wooden Generalship), and attacking destroyers on Nets with one ship, when guarded by 2/3 ships...Just plain AI stupidity..

Oh Nappy declared, with ONE Transport only outside cultural borders, then immediately SAILED AWAY??? I didn't sink with Destroyers, as I thought, "I could use the GG Points...but no landing..

Another Gereral idiot, declared and did an amphibious attack with Calvary/Rifles against fortified Infantry/Machine guns...Granted I had Crossbows as back up upgrades..but really....must admit 4 destroyers escorting...Bah..only a few wounded troops with a hospital in city..HA

So I continue teching....at 10-40 % making money... going to have to shot for internet, or space Elevator...if I miss both...well Its just a race to launch.

Oh yeah, currently building MARINES only in Ironworks city for a Naval leveling of Perciles (my Pleased buddy)...won't he be pleased when I turn up...

*Knock knock*
"Who's there?"
*Marine!*
"Marine who?"
*No, its Me, MORON!*

RANDOM EVENT, "A smoker, discarded a lit cigarette in the Streets of Athens, it was blown by a gust of wind into the Oil Refinary, and Destroyed the city":p
 
I have played through the save I posted a while longer have crushed the Greeks and I am quite sure with I can win the game, #1 in tech, Power, pop, GDP, etc.. etc.. It is just the time to do so, as playing marathon with Space Race only as the victory conditions when you could have won other ways already is painful...:lol:
 
I wouldn't worry much about the rules or how reasonable or winnable they make the game, it's partly the rules that make your games special and entertaining, and it just has to be accepted you can't always win because of them. That being said, I think the main problem here was the mostly bad land you got. An isolationist victory surely can be achieved, but for it the most important foundation for a strong empire is good land so you can get several truly powerful and specialized cities. You did a great job working with what you got, and as always, it's been fun to follow your reports. :goodjob:
 
Ok Mad, you wanted us to continue to try...well I'm trying...but.......

Joao, built the internet, and is now Nappies vassal...I feel he'll be the first to launch..if not...I'll have to eliminate him due to Internet, and he has a rice which I require for a greed quest...:p

Nappy is Going for domination, declares on Perciles and me..alternatively.

Perciles...I assume still going for Cultural, I destroyed his 3 rd city twice now. and its sitting at 50K Now...so..I hope he still goes for it.2 others are legendary..leave them alone...let him try cultural..but might have a hand in the domination pie too, as declared on Sully..who has Fred as vassal now..

Washington, who was created by Nappy, was Eliminated by me, as I felt we needed his Oil...2 clams...yeah that's why...and 1 iron...:lol: Besides it was teh western Island...Rightfully Japanesse........Hmm tasty morsel he was..

Sully...well, I've no idea about sully...built space Elevator, so I assume space...its in Istanbull...got to take that city...and his rice too for the greed quest...:p

Nappy, has built 4/5 casings......so domination+space is his aim I assume...Oh yeah, when he vassalised Joal, he lost his 2 other vassals...:lol:

Me, I've built apollo program, building thrusters + docking bay. I had to trade one space tech to Joao, but I got another tech, robotics in exchange for it...good for defence...I thought it enabled a space part, my error :blush:

but then again I need some home land defence..due to Nappy and Sully declareing at drop of hats...

Lastly, Perciles is at war with Sully and vassal Fred...So let them be.just keep buring percies 3rd cultural city at 130 K..:lol:

I think I'll lose to a time victory...as I said, I messed up on Replaceable parts/rifling....but I'm willing to trade the space tech if need be..but I don't think it'll happen...as no AI will trade space techs....:sigh:
 
IPEX, great game you got going there, try and bring it home!!!! Getting to the point of building space parts is a hell of alot better than I did, congrats!!
 
Japanesse Honor has been Satisfied....we've made it Alpha Centori.

But what a journey it was.:rolleyes:

When we last left our Intrepid Japanesse empire, the world was embroiled in war.

Frederick was Eliminated by Perciles, who then proceeded to eliminate the ottomans from the continent..but lucky for Me, really, they settled one of the desert islands on the path south that I didn't bother too.

Anyway, once I saw Perciles was going to Eliminate the Ottomans, I Declared as well, racing to beat perciles to Istanbul and the prize of the space Elevator.

Ottomans later voluntarly vassalised to me, and I traded a couple of space techs, for some Prereq's I needed...namely Fibre optics and Fusion, Communissism and Military tradition, and others.
Well, he beat me, but I declared on him, took Istanbull and Ankora, Made peace and started building the space ship.

All this time Nappies declaring left and right, On me, percilies alternativelly, finally he declares on Joao, and Vassalises him completely..Rut Roh...

All the time I'm assuming Nappies going for domination, but he must have gotten some techs off the vassal Joao, because suddenly, he's got a space race tech lead on me.

Crux of it was I"m teching Fusion, then Ecology after that, and he Launches with only 1 engine...Hmm rather rushed, but easily still beating me.

Sigh, I'm in dispare..I've launced a golden age while teching fusion + Ecology, and decide I need to Eliminate Nappy completely to stop his space ship, so Its Marines/Modern armour in most cities.

I take most of my concouring stack of doom out of the Greek continent, leaving only Defencive Mech's/Sam's etc. Sail over to Nappy declare war, take first city, land 80+ troops, go back for another 60 or so, take a couple of cities, fight my way to Paris. I take Paris, still about 5 cities to go, when "All progress on the French space ship has been destroyed"...Wha?? :woohoo:

I make peace with nappy, gift him all his cities back and my stack of doom gets bounced back to the greek continent...:mad: NOOOOOOOOOOO

BUT, allway's a but isn't there, Perciles, declares on me....I'm only 9 turns form completing my 2nd engine and the life support with 8 or 10 of golden age remaining. I've gifted Ankora to Sully, to make a buffer and cause cultural problems for Perciles...He takes Ankora, that I expected. 3 turns later he turns up on Instanbuls door step with his Stack of doom...I take all defence from all other cities on Greek continent, and stack them in Istanbul, I MUST KEEP THE SPACE ELEVATOR.

I actually was just going to gift them all back to Sully, along with some troops, and turtle up while flying space ship.

Perciles, Smashes my defences in Istanbul, 20+ Mech infantry, Plus marines, Mobile sams, sams and others, takes the space elevator, Oh well its done its job, I'm only 3 turns from Life support and 4 from 2nd engine with 2 of Golden age left...NO biggie...but my stack of doom from the French campain got bounce into the Greek continent, and I've no cities now...they going to all die......:mad: ARRRGGGHHHH.

I need defence so I take the nearest city on a hill, move most troops into city, a few modern armour, who used all movement hitting the hill top city are left out....they are the sacrifice the Japanese Empire demanded, Die in the Name or your Emporeor.

Perciles, now hits my new city with all he's got...my stack get's whittled down, but I kill 3/1 ratio as he has to leave injured troops out side city, and I pick them off. Mean while, he's running rampant all over the oceans, sinking my ships, pillaging some nets etc. cities start to starve...so I draft in starving cites...going to lose pop anyway, might as well put them to use.

This goes on for 5 turns, I finally get a fleet of Ships and transports to evacuate my french stack of doom, now down to 1/2 of its starting size, I take out all remaining 2 move units, abanding my Marines...:cry: , So valiantly they have served the empire, but as it would take 2 moves over open land to get them out, they stay to die in the city as TRUE JAPANESE WARRIORS. I salute you all :D (Bah expendable cannon fodder, or modern armour fodder)

Perciles takes the last city, I sucide the last Marines at <50% strength, on the remaining attackers, they died with Honour in battle, facing the foe, not cowering in holes or cellars like rats.

Perciles will now talk peace, I guess his aims were achieved, continental domination and my removal. Ok 200 gold for peace...taken..:goodjob:

22 turns remain for Space victory, I Queue up Mech infantry and Mobile sams in all cities, turn science off, move capital FOR THE 3RD TIME, INLAND, After what happened to Nappy, it ain't happening to me. My evacuated stack moves to my NEW/OLD CAPITAL..(3RD time) and I just hit enter.

Spcae race win in 2042 Herbert Hover Grade...6832 Score...*sigh*

some other stats..226 Exec's were killed by me.?? dumb AI.
Killed 106 Gunships, never got flight myself
Killed 87 Tanks Lost 32
Killed 93 Mod armour lost 31
Killed 84 Mech inf Lost 52
Made 218 Marines lost 182 :rolleyes:

A long and tortourous game. NOT being able to adopt a Religious civic, UNLESS I founded a religion, was a killer, especially after 6/7 were gone by 160 AD.

No Resource trading..Crippled my game.

No open Boarders...again..crippled.

I only won as I got liberialism, but that only because Pacal, was dogpiled by nappy and Joao...otherwise, Lib by 800AD I feel

Nappy, MUST have gotten Tech's from Vassal Joao,

Not trading Tech's like Replaceable parts and Rifling, as I thought I'd hold onto a monolopy, was a HUGE ERROR..they just by passed that tech and traded everything else apart from that...put me right behind.

I ended up having to trade Space tech's to Vassal, who had no hope of building space ship by that time, for the Pre req tech's for late space techs.

I missed the Internet...Oh yeah, dumb me, invaded Joao, looking for the "internet" in a city, till I realised..ITS A PROJECT...DUMB A me :blush: , that's when nappy was able to vassalise Joao...so I proberly set up my own defeat.

What saved me?

Invading Nappy, Killing off his Space ship by TAKING CAPITAL ONLY...:eek: , was this ever a surprise, I'm off concouring France, Perciles is taking the remaining continent from me, the ex- Ottoman lands...and killing what i thought was a secure defence...:cry:

Nappy once he launched, declared on me, landed 12 troops in the southern land mass, THE ONLY AI TO DO THAT, even though it was lightly defended most of game, they kept coming for the Japanese home lands. That war, I continued to my eventual capture of Paris, Maybe I has over 50% of French cities ?? dunno...but it stopped the French space mission.

Perciles accepting peace, once continental domination was achieved.

My destroying one of the Greek Cultural cites twice, once he had 2 over 150 K.. Otherwise it was a Greek Cultural victory in 1970's :(

My continent having Aluminium, oil, coal, and being ISOLATED allowed me to keep defence to min, though my exapasion, Crippled my economy.:crazyeye:

In the end, I had to adopt, communisism and Heridtary rule to combat the Costs/unhappyness, of course 3 turns later, UN vote on Univeral Sufferage. Lucky I changed in golden age..otherwise....AAARRRGGGHHHH :mad:

Mad, you had it over me tech wise, I was able to stop the greeks from winning culturally, but in end they could have invaded my home lands like they did you, if they weren't 'focused' on Culture.

But the big surprise for me, was that Nappy actually had forgone military builds in favour of Space, and Perciles was allway slightly ahead of me in military, but had Gunships/Stealth bomber/fighters, and all I had to combat was sam Inf, then mobile sams later and Mech Infantry, Which basically saved my bacon.

Being able to produce mech infantry with City Garrison 3, combat 2/first strike 2/intercept..etc out of box was biggest deciding factor. City Garrisson 3 with Vassalage, other wise I'd have been invaded in home lands same as you Mad...

I Salute your efforts...It was a chore to do, but a proud achievement to make, even if I did it SO BADLY......:lol:
 
Great work Ipex!

I'm sure Tokugawa and the carefully selected Japanese civilians, crew and workers who were on the spaceship were glad to leave the horrible planet, with your collapsing empire and all of the wars :D
 
IPEX, I salute you, a masterful game!!!! You played this RPC better than I did and truely got a honorable win.

As I understand space Race games, once you take out the capital the SpaceShip falls apart and needs to be rebuilt. What I id not know was that this applied to ship in flight!!!!

Great Game !!!!!!
 
Hi, MS,
Sorry for the loss.

I just have to say that I have no issue with your self-imposed constraints/rules, they all sounded good. Just that I have a different intepretation of "strategic resources."

To me, land itself is a strategic resource. RL Japan invaded South East Asia for oil during WWII. But before that, it went to wars with China & Russia for their land only (China's oil reserve wasn't discovered then). Historically, Japanese always have some form of crisis mentality 'cause their homeland was just to small for such a pround nation.

I agree, I also consider happiness resources "strategic" and would have gone to war for them.
 
Ah, but my mindset during the game. I basically wanted to be left alone. No happiness resources were worth the effort. Cost me bigtime, and a more agressive game would have been better, soo IPEX's game.

Still no regrets, we tried it and it failed.
 
Tokugawa The Isolationist: Part III


TokuC0008.jpg

Ok, time has passed since this RPC had been played, but I'm reading it only now! And, by the way, reading MadScientists games is always good and educative. And funny, as well!!

I've only a couple of questions, about city placement: Nara and Satsuona.
Why founding Nara THAT north, losing the clam? I'd have founded it 1S, on the hill, getting both clams.
And why founding Satsuona on the hill? I'd have founded it 1E, on the desert, to get the maximum yield from the surrounding land.
 
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