Royal, Noble, Elected titles. Revamping the rules discussion.

Gaining Titles

To be invested in a title, a prospective peer must meet the requirements (land ownership, housing class, investiture) and restrictions (government type, position held). Some titles have very specific restrictions. For example, to be a Prince a person must be acknowledged by a King and is then attached to that royal house. The princely land requirements must be met with territory in the same province(s) as the sponsoring Kingdom.

Other titles are given based on demogame positions. These are noted in the "Free To" column. For these granted positions, no requirements apply (though restrictions still do). If a single player is elligible for multiple free titles, they receive only the highest one but receive income from all that they are elligible for.

Titles may also be granted by the ruling monarch. These titles, like the ones given for positions, do not have to obey requirements but do have to obey restrictions.

Lastly, invested titles may be bequeathed from one character to another. In this case the receiving character must pass all of the restrictions and all requirements except land ownership. For land ownership, at least enough tiles to avoid title loss (see "Losing Titles" below) must pass with the title or it becomes unlanded.

Land and Titles

As noted above, land ownership is critical to qualify for investing in most titles. Qualifying tiles must be contiguous (touching at the sides or corners). Once land is used to acquire a title, that title is bound to that land. New land can be added to the defined territory so long as it is contiguous to the territory. Land can also be taken away from a defined territory but this is generally discouraged. It can also have disastrous effects on the title bound to that land (see "Losing Titles" below).

Losing Titles

Granted titles are lost when the player leaves the position that granted it. Players who were granted Presidential, Imperial or Royal class titles retire to a permanent Noble class title. If the player meets the land requirements for the Noble title, they may take it as an invested title with no investiture cost. If they do not have enough land or choose not to be invested they will be an Unlanded Noble. If an Elected class title is lost the player receives a permanent Gentry class title. If the player already has a title within the class they would "retire to" or a higher class they do not gain an additional title.

Imperial, Royal and Noble titles can be lost. If at least 50% of the land requirements of a title are not maintained, the title will be stripped or disenfranchised. The most common time that this will happen is when several provinces are added. An Imperial Prince of a young nation may only need and have 5 tiles but when 2 new provinces are suddenly added, the Imperial Prince requirement suddenly becomes 15 so they must control at least 8 tiles (50% of the 15 tile requirement would be 7.5 tiles rounded up to 8) or he will lose his title. When titles are lost due to the lack of sufficient lands, the title drops down to the next title that the lands would qualify to hold. In our example, the former Imperial Prince with 5 tiles now finds himself as a Viscount. If a player prefers, they may disenfranchise instead of losing their title. This changes the status of their title from invested to unlanded.

Any player may abdicate any non-elected title at any time. For unlanded titles this simply disolves the title. For invested titles this frees the title and its associated lands for the player's heir. If there is no specified heir there is generally a large hullablaloo as different factions try to seize the title and lands.

Multiple Titles

A single player may have as many tiles as they wish (and qualify for). They receive the benefits for each title they hold. A player with multiple titles may disolve one and add the lands to the other title (perhaps to avoid the problem that the Imperial Prince ran into above). Generally speaking, a lord only kept different titles in adjoining lands when the title came from a dowry. These lands and title were traditionally passed down separately from the main lands and title (to the second or later sons).

Unlanded Nobles

Unlanded Nobles are those who no longer have the land requirements to maintain their titles, were granted titles by the ruling monarch, or who received permanent noble titles after leaving certain public service titles. Although the title is retained, none of the other benefits (income, troop point bonuses, etc) are. An unlanded noble who reaches the land requirements for their title may become invested in that title without paying investiture expenses. Note that any lands used for investiture/qualification for a title remain bound to that title and may not be used to qualify for another title so long as the original title remains in use.

Changing Titles

If a player with a title reaches the requirements for a higher invested title, they may change to that title and will pay only the difference in the investiture costs. The player may also change the name of their title as they ascend to their new rank.

A player whos title is being reduced due to title loss or demogame position retirement may also change the name of their title.

The names of titles granted by a monarch may never be changed without the permission of the current ruling monarch.

A player who simply wishes to change the name of their title for asthetic reasons may do so but must pay one half of the normal investiture for that title.

Marquis/Margrave and Count/Earl are the same ranking and are differentiated by the location of their lands. If the lands include wild or contested borders the title is Marquis or Margrave. If the lands are in the interior of the country the title is Count or Earl. If happenstance turns a Margrave's lands from borderland to interior, the title may be changed to Count or Earl without cost or penalty. Shrinking country borders would allow the same free title change for a Count or Earl if their interior lands suddenly became borderland.

Names

The territory used to qualify for an invested title is bound to that title and the two share a common name. Identical titles are not allowed but similar ones are. The Titles Manager has discretion to prevent name/title theft or misuse.

Feudalism

Feudalism is in effect as soon as that technology is learned and lasts until Nationalism is discovered. During this period, landed gentry and nobles may pledge fealty to a higher classed lord. The bond of fealty indicates that the lesser lands will be protected by the greater lord as if they were his own. In return, the greater lord may count that land as his own for the purpose of qualifying for titles. Thus, a particular parcel of land could be used to qualify many steps of nobles and royalty for their titles.

Example: Two knights with a tile each pledge to a baron who has 6 tiles. That baron now effectively has 8 tiles. He pledges to a margrave with 12 tiles. The margrave now effectively has 20 tiles and pledges to an archduke with 22 tiles. That archduke now effectively has 42 tiles and declares himself king.

Royal Bloodlines

Emperors and Kings may define royal bloodlines. When a new demogame President is elected during despotism or monarchy they name their bloodline (if they are not part of an existing one). A new king does the same thing when gaining investiture to his title. Bloodlines are expanded by the royal members of the line granting princehood to other players (the equivalent of adopting that player as a family member and heir). All members of a ruling bloodline receive double the normal income from all of their titles.

The Titles Manager has discretion to keep the number of royals proportional to the number of nobles so may forbid the creation of a new bloodline or the addition of new players to an existing bloodline.
 
1 correction:
in the table, behind prince, there must be stated the restriction "approval of the appropriate king in the province required"

1 addition (maybe):
special "rights" for the highes ranked person of a bloodline (the clan-leader)... if there are 2 they are elected by the members of the bloodline:
he can call out a "clan policy", like calling out war to someone else or something, to which all members of the bloodline have to commit. if they do not want to, they have to leave the bloodline.
also the clan-leader should be able to expell someone out of the bloodline on a majority vote among the members of the bloodline.
also, the lands of the members of a bloodline should be treated as being in a protection pact, which means that if a member of a bloodline is attacked, the other members of the bloodline declare war on the attacker.
 
I agree with Shaitan. If a bloodline is strong, I would hope they rally behind one another. If it is being torn by internal dissension, though, I can see where a faction may choose to "sit out" some action ordered/asked by the leader. It should be up to each bloodline on how they will proceed with this kind of issue.
 
Originally posted by Veera Anlai
Actually, I had a Two Shooter avatar, but I couldn't make it fit under the File Size limit.

And I won't talk anymore about it, to keep from threadjacking.

And... Err... Vote no! Yeah... That makes it on topic! ^_^;
Try this one. It's well under the limit:
 

Attachments

  • smallvee2.jpg
    smallvee2.jpg
    2.8 KB · Views: 224
well, i just thought there should be a option to throw someone out of the bloodline... otherwise there would be no chance to put pressure upon the members of the line to comply to the family tradition :)

btw:
an unlanded king should not be able to accept others to his bloodline except he is member of the ruling bloodline.
 
and: the president should be imperator if someone claims the title of king.

so he will automatically get a king title in monarchy if no other kings are there. as soon as he grands someone the title "king", he will be promoted to "imperator". also the president's king title should not be counted as for a province in the restrictions... he should be a higher rank than the other kings and as such be able to announce anyone as being king for a province :)
 
Nay, nay, disorganizer. An emperor can raise a prince but has no say over what kings rise up from the masses of savages in his empire. So long as they pay heed to his decrees he couldn't really care less anyway. During a despotism whoever gains the strength and power to become a king may do so. As that is the only government style where kingships may be added it solve any problems.

Emperor (president in despotism) is only an elected position so has no land requirements. Same with High King (the president in Monarchy). These do not take a "king spot" in a province. Of course if the Emperor or High King is already a King of a province he is still the king in that province.
 
maybe then emperor is the wrong title for a despot. in fact the european emperors were kings which showed powerfull enough to rule a nation of lesser kingdoms...

for example germany consisted of several small kingdoms (in fact a princedom is not existing anywhere in the world), which was ruled by the german imperator (kaiser).
 
Emperor = Imperator. The word used could be Kaiser or whatever is desired. That can be changed as needed. These are the base rules and can be changed for whatever civilization is being played.
 
so maybe that could be the best idea... the problem here is that in english, there is no word for kaiser :)
kaiser=emperor=despot, which is wrong... just to much generalization in the english language...
maybe also "high king" could be used for the ruler of the nation.

i have no problem with the ruleset as you proposed it, if we finetune it a bit later on...


one idea for the "transition phase" from the old to the new system in this game:

we could force all existing royal titles to choose a bloodline...
1) all people which formerly baught a title of "king" get their old title back which was declined to prince during monarchy
2) each of those new "kings" forms his own bloodline
3) all existing royals have to apply for one of those bloodlines. the "founder" of that bloodline has to accept them into the bloodline
4) if a existing royal does not get approval of any of the bloodlines during the process defined in 1-3), then he is allowed to form his own bloodline and is immediately promoted to king.

could that work? this way we could have the bloodline system going and could experiment with it during this game... and it could add to the roleplay drastically :)
 
High King is the designated title for the President when we are in Monarchy. Like "Emperor", this can be changed as needed. The literal titles in the chart are designations and we can modify these on a per case basis when a different word is desired.
 
Regarding the bloodlines, we'll need some common sense. For example, I started the Vanirian royal line. Donovan Zoi was made a prince of that line by me. Grandmaster was later designated as being part of the bloodline as well. Chieftess would be the start of a bloodline but she has not been active in the RPG so her bloodline is pretty nonexistant. Same with Eklektikos and FortyJ. The only self made King was Octavian. Although active in the RPG his bloodline would be very small as his kingdom seldom if ever dealt with other noble lands.

That effectively leaves us with only one developed royal bloodline.
 
which could be ok. i think maybe padma would and propably could also found a bloodline by buying himself kingdom... the main reason that we have so few kings is that the title was nonexistant due to monarchy ;-)

but another thing:
padma at the moment is a prince. this is a royal title. as he will maintain the title, he could plead to join your, ct's or octavian's bloodline. if none of them accept, then he would be promoted to king for free(!) and get his own bloodline... so we would have a 4th bloodline (2 small and 2 big ones).
this i think would also reflect the ownserhip and tile scenery we set up till now best, as vanir and lancre seem to be the 2 big names in fanatika.
 
it could define fame and fortune for a whole family of noble titles... i can imagine a marriage of a prince of lancre with a princess of vanir for example :) to join the bloodlines ;-)

but anyways, we are also building the base ruleset for next game now, and when done from the beginning it would improove the title system imho...
 
RPG Managers:

Please review the following posts and either approve or decline this ruleset correction. As a subrule set it will need 2 managers to approve it in order for it to be officially adopted.

Title Chart
Rules

Special

The adoption of these rules requires a changeover. No current titles will be lost but may become unlanded if insufficient territories are owned to support a landed title. Octavian X will have his permanent King title returned to him. Existing bloodlines will be:

Great Houses
House Vanir: Shaitan (deceased, founder), Grandmaster, Donovan Zoi
House Doughnutia: Octavian X (founder)
House Seetee: Chieftess (founder)
House Kartenwerk: FortyJ (founder)
House Pointiple: Eklektikos (founder)

Lesser Houses
House Manitou: Cyc
House Cincinnatia: jdd2007
House Lancre: disorganizer (abdicated), Padma
House Cupertania: Stuck_As_a_Mac
House Gewehr: gunning1

House names can be corrected by their founders for the first 2 weeks that the ruleset is in effect. The Lesser houses may attach to any of the Greater houses with the permission of the Great house founder. This option will be available in the first 2 weeks of this ruleset's adoption.
 
I vote YES on this adoption.
 
Top Bottom