RR10 - Los Incas y los incapaces

[Thy_Spellcraft]

What's up rolo? You'll take the first set won't you?

 

[r_rolo1]

Obviously Just had no time in the weekend for it ... will play today

 

[r_rolo1]

Ok, let's get started ...

Our start, again :

Spoiler :

I moved the settlers to position and all the workers to the corn near of our-future cap:

Spoiler :

Next turn I founded our cities:

Spoiler :

Tech wise I strongly suggest this for the time being:

Spoiler :

I only teched the wheel and Pottery so far.

BTW, I forgot to tell that we have already set civics since turn 0:

Spoiler :

We can go beauro anytime we want BTW. I'm waiting for a double revolt or a GA, since we can't afford to waste turns.

First GP of the world is out:

Spoiler :

HRE, Rome, most likely ( Apostolic palace )

Some worker juggling to start improving stuff as soon as possible ( especially the 2 hills in the area , since we are desperately in needs of hammers in here ) and the end of set at the end of pottery:

Spoiler :

I stopped the libraries I was doing for queue filling in both cities ( we don't need more units ATM and we will need libraries ) and changed the prod to terraces.

Next turnset:

- Link the gold and the cities ... and finish the currently built farm . there is literally nothing useful to do workerwise besides that for the moment.

- Finish the terraces , start lighthouses if possible. Prepare to whip a settler in the next turnset and maybe also a galley.

- Finish sailing start ... well, probably currency. No use in going to any of the wonders techs, so we need to focus in infra techs. We already have CoL and CS, so we are lacking currency

A final note: I strongly suggest to juggle the gold tile between the two cities as needed ( currently it is being worked by city #2 ). For example , the cap might build a galley using the two hills while the other city prepares a settler whip and after that you can give it to the other city. We need to squeeze our orange the best we can , since we dont have much of orange

Thy is us , nocho is on deck

 

[Brian Shanahan]

We need to squeeze our orange the best we can , since we dont have much of orange

Don't worry I plan on us having a whole plantation's worth by the end.

Good turnset so far, can't see how you'd have done anything different to get better results.

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

Got it for tomorrow..
PPP:
- 2 pop whip both terraces --> overflow into settler + galley
- regrow while building lib in cuzco and galley in Tiwa
- get out the settler/galley pair

Techwise I'd agree with rolo and afterwards I'd go for IW for jungle chopping.

 

[r_rolo1]

It is a good plan , but we need to get a quechua or a archer out of somewhere to go with the settler. Must see that with more detail :/

 

[Liquidated]

hmm if the workers have nothing to do, maybe have them pop the two villages(can see one, the other is in the south)? Move the workers one tile at a time into the fog to make sure no surprises, but workers popping the huts is better than using combat units.

A tech pop would be sweet.

btw, where exactly is that settler going, so we are all on the same page. Better to be super clear about it.

Cheers!
-Liq

 

[r_rolo1]

No Workers can pop hostiles ( as well as settlers, GP and spies ) ... and we have little we can pop of useful tech wise now ( well , besides MC and IW IIRC ). I wonder if we should not gamble a astro pop later , btw

P.S Next settler goes south to 1N of the deer . IMHO settler #2 should go to near of where Montevideo is IRL , most likely 1 NW of the fish ( that leaves space for settling a city that works both the south chilean copper and the corn near the Andes ). Probbaly from that time on that city will be able to spit the needed settlers for the south area while we focus our cap in making settlers and workers to ship for the jungle infested north, that will need lots of worker turns and IW to be useful.

 

[Liquidated]

oh really, hmm then those are super sheltered, save them for when we can pop a scout I guess?

Again though, what explicitly is the target of that settler? deer dot?

Cheers!
-Liq

 

[r_rolo1]

Edited the above post about my musings on where to ship the next two settlers.

And yes, we can afford to save those huts for later

 

[Liquidated]

ok map time because it sucks to hunt though posts/spoiler tags to figure out what's going on



red is deer, blue is 'Montevideo' and weak green is the copper site mentioned in passing.

Plan is Red first, Blue second, weak green unknown.


Plenty of food left for towns just north with no fish lost.

Thinking it would be nice to have someone else build the Workboat for red.

Cheers!
-Liq

 

[Jerrymander]

I don't know if green is "weak"... it's not amazing because of the Andes running through it, but it would be fine with some SP Watermills, if a bit small.

Oh, the color green is weak. Carry on.

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

OK.. I'll try to get a quechua out of thin air as well!
And I too think red dot next!
Techwise we agreed on currency?

 

[nocho]

We can go beauro anytime we want BTW. I'm waiting for a double revolt or a GA, since we can't afford to waste turns.

Apart from the creative way of spelling bureau I'm also highly surprised you didn't revolt to it immediately. I would think that 1 turn of anarchy is quickly compensated by the +50% hammers and +50% commerce in the capital, more so when gold is online and being financial. It might have higher civics upkeep but I think that also would quickly be compensated. If we are waiting for a new civic to become available could you enlighten us which civic it is we're waiting for? Might wanna beeline the corresponding tech cause I'd really take bureau asap. Now I'm sure you have good though sinister reasons for not taking bureau, but frankly if you weren't a player of the stature you have on these forums I would consider it a major blunder and wouldn't have thought long about getting out the ! Too bad GreyFox isn't around anymore. Haven't done any hard calculations on it though, so maybe my gut feeling is totally off here.

On liq's dotmap, can't argue with red while light green is the only way to pick up bronze reasonably fast, so okay. What I don't like about blue is that it's completely without hills so seriously lacking in production, though otoh it's of course an excellent worker/settler pump. However, I could see it go 1N of the deer and another city 1W2S of blue to get the fish and share a corn and some hills and to fill up those plains a bit. Unfortunately it can't go on a river. Or it should go 1W1S like rolo initially suggested, but then light green has to move.

 

[Liquidated]

ok two things..

First this is not Liq's Dot Map Locations, this is exactly what Rolo mentioned in his edit. The fact that you think it was liq's locations is exactly why I photoshopped the map...

Too long:didn't read for the win.

P.S Next settler goes south to 1N of the deer . IMHO settler #2 should go to near of where Montevideo is IRL , most likely 1 NW of the fish ( that leaves space for settling a city that works both the south chilean copper and the corn near the Andes )

note "likely" for the placement, argue alternative placements as I agree that blue dot's lack of hills is disturbing. I'll post another picture for us to quibble over... in spoiler tags.

Spoiler :

Basic issue with what Orange/Yellow offers vs Blue is that there's no real food tile in the home row. We are playing a catch up game here and we cannot afford to allow our 4th town to waffle about, waiting for a culture bounce in order to take off.

Blue is a tradeoff as it really only has 2 forests (that plains is jungle, yes odd) and food for hammers. Merely calling it food is a disservice though, it has Insane food right from the moment it is built. The town will be spitting out settlers and endless workers with that food posthaste. Also, By the time we bother to leave slavery, watermills cannot be too far away.

After looking at how yellow and orange really play out, I cannot see the value in spliting blue into two weaker towns when we have so much land we need to grab elsewhere.

It's not perfect, but I'm going to have to vote blue.

Second, as jerry figured out fast, the 'weak' in "weak green" refers to the color of the dot, not the overall value of the dot hehe.

Unless we are dying for copper though, I would place settling the north towards monty first and grabbing the towns along the eastern cost line in Argentina before inland towns.

Reasoning behind this is that coastal towns mean instant hookup to capital once a road from red to blue is established. Also, a solid coastline of culture would prevent anyone else settling south America.

This continent is going to be a serious barb factory (even at noble) if we do not fog bust, so conjuring a few warriors isn't the worst idea. Remember that no barb can spawn within 2 tiles of a unit, including other barbs. That means a fog buster blocks barbs in a 5x5 grid regardless if it can see those tiles.

Cheers!
-Liquidated

 

[nocho]

I didn't mean yellow where you put it, but 1SW of there or 1N of that deer on the east coast (maybe "1N of deer" sounded like the red spot 1N of the western deer...). Then it does have food in its first ring. I agree though that orange would be slow to start but I wouldn't settle it soon anyway, maybe after light green popped its borders so it could use that corn immediately. However, blue certainly ain't bad, though sometimes that much food can be a bit of an overkill and you profit more by settling 2 cities instead of 1 monster (especially when happy/health caps are still a concern). But maybe with overlapping cities (yellow where you pictured it) that can be remedied. If not it will make an excellent worker/settler factory and subsequent GP farm, that's for sure. All in all, I can see it both ways.

On Monty, his access to south america is blocked by a mountain, right? That'd mean that we have to race only for that silver/fish site if we want it. I do agree though that we should settle somewhere in Colombia soon after the Chilean and Uruguayan/Argentinian settlements.

 

[Brian Shanahan]

On blue dot I see six watermill spots, which will probably be up soon. It's not great production to start but with two fertilised corn and a deer it is a very strong whipping factory.

Another reason for settling the coast, blocking of them Eurotrash coming over and stealing our land!

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

Apart from the creative way of spelling bureau I'm also highly surprised you didn't revolt to it immediately. I would think that 1 turn of anarchy is quickly compensated by the +50% hammers and +50% commerce in the capital, more so when gold is online and being financial. It might have higher civics upkeep but I think that also would quickly be compensated. If we are waiting for a new civic to become available could you enlighten us which civic it is we're waiting for? Might wanna beeline the corresponding tech cause I'd really take bureau asap. ...

Do we have any agreement on that? I too think it would be a good idea to change right from the beginning of my set as there's no needful civic in sight!

 

[Brian Shanahan]

Personally with only a small number of cities in our empire for the forseeable future, I cannot see where it would be more worthwhile to not revolt, unless we have a settler out the gate in the next few turns.

 

[r_rolo1]

Personally with only a small number of cities in our empire for the forseeable future, I cannot see where it would be more worthwhile to not revolt, unless we have a settler out the gate in the next few turns.

The issue is that the current cap will NOT be the best city ever as soon as we settle any of the proposed cities in the south. In fact our cap will be a complete trash city, only slight better than the city we can found on the Falklands.... and IMHO beauro to this cap does not pay, if you factor the civic costs as soon as we settle the south and the weight of a lost turn.

Now if you ge me new cap, things get diferent The issue is that the palace is quite a expensive building and a cap change is not something to consider in the short run.

I'll stick with my dot map To be honest, I'm seeing that some people are forgetting that the fact that we have little turns and the need for speed settling to close the path to the Euro + Mansa trash. Blue is there not because it will be a major prod center ( in spite of being a pretty decent spot after watermills/workshops ), but because it is a heaven and a strong settler+worker spitter and that is what we need until we can cover the S. American coast with cities ( after that we can make things diferently ).

P.S @ nocho . Yup, Greyfox is missed But I probably him as much as he me since that, in spite of being a MM maniac, he didn't had half of the tricks in the bag that I have ( modesty apart, but I'm one of the few that admitedly used sound effects to map fog of war, so i think I am entitled to a little of self-praise ). Well, atleast we both learned a lot from each other

P.S II I think that we should also prioritize cities on rivers, because of levees. We have a lot of river tiles in S. America, so discarding that prod is most likely a waste in a enviroment where levees pay themself hammer-wise fast enough even in this need for speed scenario we are