RR13 - Hearts and Minds

[Thy_Spellcraft]

OK full report:

IT:
Switched to gran in Vija and changed tech to Alpha.

775:
The gran in Vija finished I switched back tp the lib so the chop would speed it up a bit.

750:
The lib in Dheli finished an on we go with the Settler, as there's still the 3sugar/cow/horses/bananas spot is still available.
The lib in Bombay also finished and as we still didn't connect horses and I wanted to grow it to size 5 I started on the barracks.

725:
time: monument in pataand the settler in Delhi got speeded up..

700:
The overflow went into a temple in delhi. In patra I called a lib next.
As Bombay grew to size 5 this turn I switched to a worker. And to get even a bit more culture runing I whiped the lib in Vija.

675:
Pacal came and asked for OB. As there's np reason not to to I accepted:

Spoiler :

650:
Bull came to demand this:

Spoiler :

As he's a way stronger than we are I wonted to ensure he won't go into fist mode.. And as we're spiritual I accepted.

625:
The horses got connected.

575:
Finally the iron got connected as well. And for a bit better scouting Iasked zara for OB and he accepted:

Spoiler :

550:
Finally I settle the spot and finished the set so far:

Spoiler :

 

[LKendter]

I'm not going to comment too much until I see the report.
Glad to see Bombay building an Axeman. A start to get past paper cut out defense.

One more worker is also good news - we are still way short for this jungle infected map. In addition, our economy needs to connect our new cities.
Looks like an SB demand from diplomacy to adopt religion.
IMHO it is way too early. We may not get another chance. I would revolt back to no religion ASAP. We can't afford the bad relations with our joke of an army. The two top civs are giving us a large negative modifier because of this.
No matter what, take advantage of it and sign open borders with SB.

It looks like our next target city is pigs heading toward Ethiopia.

 

[LKendter]

Still waiting for full report.

 

[r_rolo1]

Yes, Thy, a report would be nice ... even to know exactly when the demand to change to confu was made.

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

Finally I attached the report

 

[LKendter]

r_rolo1 -
Thy_Spellcraft - just played
nocho - UP (and please sign OB with SB before we dump Confused).
lymond -on deck
LKendter -

 

[nocho]

I'll have a closer look this evening and post a plan, hopefully play tomorrow.

Meanwhile, from what I remember from the save:
- We get our first GSpy soon. SY or settle?
- That city of SB might flip any day. Keep, raze or resettle? Guess keep.
- Any suggestions on tech path?

 

[LKendter]

We know from last game that late game when we want EP that yard is the way to go. Capitol for the first one since we have the extra EP from palace.

Keep the SB city. It is the EXACT spot we want to pressure his capitol.

Tech path - all I know for sure is NOT toward AP. Don't have game up for suggestions.

Please sign OB with SB before we dump Confused

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

Going for SY in our cap seems the best idea for the long run.. And yes I too would keep the SB city, to get cultue a way faster into his cap..
Techwise I'd purpose currency next to get our econ back on track. Afterwards it depends on whether we really want to DoW SB really soon or not. In case we want we should head for construction. Otherwise I'd prefere going for drama and music!

 

[LKendter]

If we want currency soon, we need more workers soon. IIRC we have at least two cities NOT connected to our road net. 2X nothing is still nothing.

IMO we need the workers to matter what. We need a road net soon.

 

[r_rolo1]

Yup, currency is the best thing after Alpha. As LK said, we have still to connect all our cities to the trade network, but that can be arranged with some ease. We will most likely need more workers to chop that jungle, though :/

The GSpy is for a SY in cap, obviously. Most of the team already had been in the espionage related-RR games and we already know that is the long term that matters here.

The SB city is a keeper. Every city counts and I'm convinced that we made a mistake in razing some of the cities we razed in RR12 ... anyway, it is in the right place to put pressure in SB cap and it is not such a bad city ...

 

[LKendter]

The SB city is a keeper. Every city counts and I'm convinced that we made a mistake in razing some of the cities we razed in RR12 ... anyway, it is in the right place to put pressure in SB cap and it is not such a bad city ...

The SB city is the exact spot I wanted a border push city, so I like it.
Worse case it builds spy later - can never have to many of those.

I agree we should only raze in a extreme case such as tundra city with no food that will never pressure another city.

The other issue with razing is the RR12 mistake of not enough cities. We need a ton of junk cities that just build spies later.

I do agree with currency. My comment is the effect won't be that strong until:
1) - OB with SB.
2) - Roads to the two north cities.

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

The only reason I didn't start roading was, that there are nor protectors nearby. But we also should think of getting the pig city north of pata! This would also ensure the barb city me thinks, as Zara won't take a city behind our lines will he?

 

[r_rolo1]

I'm somewhat divided about the barb city. We can't take it directly ... and we can't flip it easily ( because we can't run espionage missions on barbs ( another misfeature of Firaxis on the espionage district :/ ) ). to be honest, I wonder if letting someone take it would not be better in hte long run ...

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

I made experience, that barb cities rather flip easily as they won't produce any culture..

 

[AJ11]

I made experience, that barb cities rather flip easily as they won't produce any culture..

Lurker Comment: I have seen barb cities with 2+border pops if you leave it alone long enough... They build culture stuff (if they had researched it) when they get threatened by your border. Even Genghis and Monty does it.

 

[nocho]

Sorry, I was too exhausted yesterday evening to take a look at the save again and post a plan. But it's good to see some discussion has been going on anyway.

Compiling the comments the plan would be to:
* Sign OB with SB.
* Drop confused.
* Build SY in capital.
* Keep SB city if it flips.
* Pump workers.
* Connect cities to trade network.
* Build settler for pig city.
* General infra builds.
* Some token unit builds (also for worker protection).
* Tech towards currency. Do I understand we're still on maths? Does rolo's comment "currency is the best thing after Alpha" mean he proposes to self-research alpha before currency? Or trade for it somehow (although doubt we have a trading chip). I understand we ignore aesthetics for now?
* After the GSpy is born, should we hire some scientists in the cap for increased GPP production and in order to get an academy? Now that we have at least one SY secured I don't care too much whether great person #2 is a GSci or a GSpy. I'm not sure whether we have a CH already in the cap, otherwise we could also hire a spy and 1 or 2 scientists. A hired spy would leverage the SY a bit more as well.

Oh, in my experience barb cities flip rather easily as well. Since we can't really control the AI to capture it, nor can we capture it ourselves, I would basically just ignore it until it eventually will be absorbed by our culture anyway. Though I must admit I rather have SB capture it than creative Zara...

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

... Do I understand we're still on maths? ...

We're already teching alpha...

And about scientists vs. spies in cap: We won't loose the game becase we're too backwards techwise! We don't need any advantage.. We only need to stay on par with the rest. So in this game I'd rather get a couple of GSpies for lots of SY (I'm sure we'll once again switch to EPs in the late game so SY will be worth it every commerce city) than a single GS..

 

[LKendter]

We can use another SY in our holy city that should be a cottage fest hoping for shrine and WS.

Once we get merc, Rep and SoL we will generate plenty of science.
Late game was crazy at 0% science for rate, and that will happen again if we get enough cities going.

 

[nocho]

Obviously I'm hoping for a truck-load of SYs all over the empire, it's just that I'm thinking that, especially at this early stage, an academy certainly wouldn't hurt, precisely to get sooner to the later stages. Actually, the main aim of hiring a scientist (or 2) would be to dramatically speed up generic GPP generation, where right now either type (or a priest for that shrine ) could be beneficial. Heck, even bulbing philo can be pretty useful early on.

And good to know we have math already and are working on alpha. Couldn't find that in the report.