RR15 - Mills for D. Quixote
- Thread starter r_rolo1
- Start date
Truly YOU'RE the Oracle if you can tell us what happened in 1400 AD! 
r_rolo1
King of myself
BC 
Aparently I miswrote it twice ( Not even in E1000 the oracle lasts until 1400 AD )
Aparently I miswrote it twice ( Not even in E1000 the oracle lasts until 1400 AD )
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I"ve noticed you've gone green rolo. I hope this does not mean you are sick 
I think we need to pick up Archery now...2turns
I would like to encourage folks to not worry about growing into unhappiness. That is free production. Cap should switch back to farm and 2pop granary after growth. Gran should have been 2popped in cow/rice city. The other cities can probably do without Grans for now unless they are already built.
I think we need to pick up Archery now...2turns
I would like to encourage folks to not worry about growing into unhappiness. That is free production. Cap should switch back to farm and 2pop granary after growth. Gran should have been 2popped in cow/rice city. The other cities can probably do without Grans for now unless they are already built.
r_rolo1
King of myself
OFC there is no issue in growing to unhappiness in it self. It was just because the alternative to letting Gondar grow into unhappiness was to run 2 sci specs for a while that I did it 
The extra beakers and the GPP ( remember that we need 2 GS to bulb into machinery ) make up for the delay into the 2 pop whip IMHO
Oh yah, I kind of forgot about archery for HA Anyway, i wonder if it is not better to only get Archery after alpha ... I seriously doubt that we can finish a single HA before the end of the next set, anyway ... atleast if we get barracks and stables in all cities. And a earlier alpha means earlier research and earlier MC bulb ...
The extra beakers and the GPP ( remember that we need 2 GS to bulb into machinery ) make up for the delay into the 2 pop whip IMHOOh yah, I kind of forgot about archery for HA
Anyway, i wonder if it is not better to only get Archery after alpha ... I seriously doubt that we can finish a single HA before the end of the next set, anyway ... atleast if we get barracks and stables in all cities. And a earlier alpha means earlier research and earlier MC bulb ...
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Well, I do agree that we need to keep scientists running in Gondor. In fact, we should be running 2 now.
We still need several techs for MC bulb, but Alpha will allows us to trade for many of them. I guess Alpha now is best, plus we can build some research here and there too.
As for unhappies, the nice thing is that it allows you not to whip off good tiles or specialists. We definitely want to do this with the Gran in Aksum.
I would fire up a stable in Lali. The gran was not so important here.
Good to see some discourse
We still need several techs for MC bulb, but Alpha will allows us to trade for many of them. I guess Alpha now is best, plus we can build some research here and there too.
As for unhappies, the nice thing is that it allows you not to whip off good tiles or specialists. We definitely want to do this with the Gran in Aksum.
I would fire up a stable in Lali. The gran was not so important here.
Good to see some discourse
timmy827
King
Sorry my signs for last set should have been clearer.
What I meant was for the warrior at "substitue spawnbust" to move to where the Woodsman warrior is currently standing. (Right now the nonwoodsman warrior spawnbusts not a single tile, all covered by our culture, Toku's, or the woodsman.). Once done the woodsman was to head west and try to meet the last AI on our continent. This could be crucial to getting the value out of Alphabet, nocho please do this on your set.
Again, my fault, apologies.
Any idea what happened to Qin's settler r_rolo? At the end of my set looked like he was sending it offshore, but he has only 2 cities total still from the diplo menu.
For tech - Doing Aesthetics now and hoping HC, Qin, or last AI comes up with Alpha would be the high risk/high reward, Alpha now safe. But AI's seem slow (still only 2 cities from Toku?) so I'm ok with Alpha now.
Agree that our cities can mostly build their stables while we research Alpha, so recommend Alpha now and see if Archery is available in trade. (Crappy for WFYABTA, but we're killing the neighbors anyway).
Generally agree with lymond on the city management except for Lali. yes it should have skipped granary but at over half done now I would let it finish. Please change to the eastern plains forests @Lali so Gondar can work the shared plains forest instead of bare plains hill.
EDIT - well that's moot if we go 2 scientists @gondayr, which probably makes sense. Keep it in mind for size 5.
What I meant was for the warrior at "substitue spawnbust" to move to where the Woodsman warrior is currently standing. (Right now the nonwoodsman warrior spawnbusts not a single tile, all covered by our culture, Toku's, or the woodsman.). Once done the woodsman was to head west and try to meet the last AI on our continent. This could be crucial to getting the value out of Alphabet, nocho please do this on your set.
Again, my fault, apologies.
Any idea what happened to Qin's settler r_rolo? At the end of my set looked like he was sending it offshore, but he has only 2 cities total still from the diplo menu.
For tech - Doing Aesthetics now and hoping HC, Qin, or last AI comes up with Alpha would be the high risk/high reward, Alpha now safe. But AI's seem slow (still only 2 cities from Toku?) so I'm ok with Alpha now.
Agree that our cities can mostly build their stables while we research Alpha, so recommend Alpha now and see if Archery is available in trade. (Crappy for WFYABTA, but we're killing the neighbors anyway).
Generally agree with lymond on the city management except for Lali. yes it should have skipped granary but at over half done now I would let it finish. Please change to the eastern plains forests @Lali so Gondar can work the shared plains forest instead of bare plains hill.
EDIT - well that's moot if we go 2 scientists @gondayr, which probably makes sense. Keep it in mind for size 5.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I kept a eye on the situation, but I have not seen any settler for quite a while and the Chinese galley as far as I noticed has not left the Chinese cap ... To be honest I don't have the slightest idea of where it is :/
While I see the case for alpha asap, I do think we can start on the first HAs rather soon. For example in the capital we can 2 pop whip the granary in 2 turns for max overflow into stable which shouldn't take more than 5 turns to finish after that. The city already has barracks. So in 7 turns we could start with HAs, while at full speed alpha takes 12 turns. Plus archery 2, so it's 7 turns lost of potential HA buildup.
Correct me if I'm wrong, we CAN chop, right?
Chopping obviously potentially speeds up grans and stables too, so also Lali could start on HAs in 8 or 9 turns. In Addis I'd be a bit more reluctant to chop as beside horse, the forests are the best tiles to work.
So I'd go archery - alpha.
Cities (note with jumbos soon happy cap increases by 1):
Aksum - gran (whip in 2 turns), stable, HAs
Gondar - a bit in doubt here. I guess we should permanently hire 2 scientists here for GS generation. If so, builds are slowish as we shouldn't whip it (much) either. Keep 2 specs, slowbuild gran, rax, stable.
Lali - gran, stable, HAs. *might* 2 pop whip the stable.
Addis - rax, stable, HAs. No whip here.
Chopping: Aksum, Gondar, Lali could have some (2 each) of its riverside flatland forests chopped, Addis maybe 1. Or will we wait for math-bonus for chopping?
And what is that northern warrior doing there on that desert hill? Watching the sea? I'll send it somewhere. I also think the 2 spawnbusters NW can be replaced by 1. Is it worth it to try and sneak the other one past Toku?
timmy827
King
vranasm
Deity
lurker:
Forgive my blindness, but I am actually lost what you try to achieve with this game in BC era...
I see here mixing couple of rushes and beelines and it just doesn't work to me.
You either go:
- HA's
- WE+cats
- Trebs+pikes+XBows
you're obviously ready to go with HA's (not sure with all those granaries though doesn't mesh well with good attack time), can be on path towards cats it you go math now (then the granaries would make sense)
don't see why you would go with Engineering bulb since then you should took aesth before anything (for machinery and eng scientists bulb you need to get aesth, math, alpha (from the big techs), avoid fish, med or col/drama and you never know if AI's are quick or not thus you can safely pick aesth first and hope for the best)
don't forget HBR is very good trade tech for getting Alpha, so investing few turns into alpha and wait for AI's to get it can be viable, unless this is monarch, thus you probably will self tech it.
Forgive my blindness, but I am actually lost what you try to achieve with this game in BC era...
I see here mixing couple of rushes and beelines and it just doesn't work to me.
You either go:
- HA's
- WE+cats
- Trebs+pikes+XBows
you're obviously ready to go with HA's (not sure with all those granaries though doesn't mesh well with good attack time), can be on path towards cats it you go math now (then the granaries would make sense)
don't see why you would go with Engineering bulb since then you should took aesth before anything (for machinery and eng scientists bulb you need to get aesth, math, alpha (from the big techs), avoid fish, med or col/drama and you never know if AI's are quick or not thus you can safely pick aesth first and hope for the best)
don't forget HBR is very good trade tech for getting Alpha, so investing few turns into alpha and wait for AI's to get it can be viable, unless this is monarch, thus you probably will self tech it.
Went ahead and played pretty much as planned.
Slipped a warrior and a scout past Toku and we met somebody new.
Unfortunately, as you can see in the background our woody2 scout ended up next to a barb archer and perished. As I hand it over, our warrior just landed next to another barb archer and is likely to perish too.
Stopped with archery and alpha just in and our first GS just born from Gondar. I just this turn whipped a stable and have the max overflow directed to barracks (which already has hammers in it. Didn't want to whip the city until the GS was produced so first worked on stable up to a good 2 pop whip, then continued barracks, switched back to stable and whipped when GS came in; that is, this turn). So barracks should finish soon. I think this city no longer needs scientists for now, just push/whip out the military. Our other 3 cities have both barracks and stables already and are busy producing HAs of which we produced two thus far.
But for a small interlude maintained 2 scientists in the capital too so as to produce a 2nd one asap, due in 18 turns. Meanwhile we should get maths and aesthetics at least for bulbing the lower half.
However, note MC and maths are out there, be it not tradeable atm.
A deal alpha for IW, masonry, myst is possible. Avoid fishing though! Queued maths as a placeholder.
In other news, the great lighthouse got conveniently built in China. He did seem to settle overseas as he has 3 cities now.
Slipped a warrior and a scout past Toku and we met somebody new.
Unfortunately, as you can see in the background our woody2 scout ended up next to a barb archer and perished. As I hand it over, our warrior just landed next to another barb archer and is likely to perish too.
Stopped with archery and alpha just in and our first GS just born from Gondar. I just this turn whipped a stable and have the max overflow directed to barracks (which already has hammers in it. Didn't want to whip the city until the GS was produced so first worked on stable up to a good 2 pop whip, then continued barracks, switched back to stable and whipped when GS came in; that is, this turn). So barracks should finish soon. I think this city no longer needs scientists for now, just push/whip out the military. Our other 3 cities have both barracks and stables already and are busy producing HAs of which we produced two thus far.
But for a small interlude maintained 2 scientists in the capital too so as to produce a 2nd one asap, due in 18 turns. Meanwhile we should get maths and aesthetics at least for bulbing the lower half.
However, note MC and maths are out there, be it not tradeable atm.
A deal alpha for IW, masonry, myst is possible. Avoid fishing though! Queued maths as a placeholder.
In other news, the great lighthouse got conveniently built in China.
He did seem to settle overseas as he has 3 cities now.
r_rolo1
King of myself
How convenient of the chinese to make the GLH for us
Now on what to do now with the GS, We can probably bulb MC soonish. Do we do it ?
P.S Lymond is UP, LK is on deck
Now on what to do now with the GS, We can probably bulb MC soonish. Do we do it ?
P.S Lymond is UP, LK is on deck
timmy827
King
Cool. Meeting another civ, those warriors did not die in vain And the general situation is looking good.
So we need Aesth and Math to bulb MC and machinery (assuming we trade for IW nowish). Research Aesth first, it is more likely that Math will be tradeable than vice versa. The WFYABTA base values are sort of tight with our neighbors (Huayna 5, Qin 5 but we kill him anyways, Sulei 10) so I dunno about picking up Myst and Masonry in trade.
Do we keep the capital on scientists? Ideally we'd research Aesth in ~14 turns, trade for Math, bulb MC, 2nd GS a few turns later and bulb Machinery a few turns later. (or really ideally, MC becomes available in trade). But maybe it makes sense to fire some scientists in favor of production. I guess I'm not sure how we balance tech vs. HA production
Micro: switch one grass forest in Addis ababa to the ivory, growth too far away to matter.
It seems there are still more AI on our continent? Comparing Toku's EP count from this save and the last one (1200BC), his counts on us and Huayna are unchanged, count on Qin went from 0 to 5. His count on Sulei is 0. He doesn't have alpha so he can't have spent EP on a mission, so he must be devoting it all to an unmnet AI. Can someone else on the team check this and make sure I'm not idiotically reading the EP on the F4 screen backwards or something?
Does it make sense to divert production to a single axe, in order to have one barbarcher proof scout to wander the jungles west of Toku in search of that AI?
I count 5 new HA's done in the next 5 turns (assuming we do one double whip in the capital and the chop on the share forest with Addis Ababa goes to cap, but not Gondar) for 7 total. Is that enough to get the party started? If so we should agree on a target before the next set.
the attack on Toku (if he is first ) would be fastest launched from the corn 2S of Osaka. Probably Toku will pop borders before we declare, but just in case he doesn't it would make sense to road to that tile.
And the general situation is looking good. So we need Aesth and Math to bulb MC and machinery (assuming we trade for IW nowish). Research Aesth first, it is more likely that Math will be tradeable than vice versa. The WFYABTA base values are sort of tight with our neighbors (Huayna 5, Qin 5 but we kill him anyways, Sulei 10) so I dunno about picking up Myst and Masonry in trade.
Do we keep the capital on scientists? Ideally we'd research Aesth in ~14 turns, trade for Math, bulb MC, 2nd GS a few turns later and bulb Machinery a few turns later. (or really ideally, MC becomes available in trade). But maybe it makes sense to fire some scientists in favor of production. I guess I'm not sure how we balance tech vs. HA production
Micro: switch one grass forest in Addis ababa to the ivory, growth too far away to matter.
It seems there are still more AI on our continent? Comparing Toku's EP count from this save and the last one (1200BC), his counts on us and Huayna are unchanged, count on Qin went from 0 to 5. His count on Sulei is 0. He doesn't have alpha so he can't have spent EP on a mission, so he must be devoting it all to an unmnet AI. Can someone else on the team check this and make sure I'm not idiotically reading the EP on the F4 screen backwards or something?
Does it make sense to divert production to a single axe, in order to have one barbarcher proof scout to wander the jungles west of Toku in search of that AI?
I count 5 new HA's done in the next 5 turns (assuming we do one double whip in the capital and the chop on the share forest with Addis Ababa goes to cap, but not Gondar) for 7 total. Is that enough to get the party started? If so we should agree on a target before the next set.
the attack on Toku (if he is first ) would be fastest launched from the corn 2S of Osaka. Probably Toku will pop borders before we declare, but just in case he doesn't it would make sense to road to that tile.
With Gondar shortly contributing to the war effort too, I'd keep the scientists in the cap. However, we might do some whips from size 6 to 4 or even 7 to 5 while maintaining the two corns and two scientists all the time.
Aesthetics first sounds logical.
I'm neutral on Qin or Toku first. From Qin we might extort some techs for peace though, leaving him exiled on his island. I assume we would leave Toku completely exterminated.
Aesthetics first sounds logical.
I'm neutral on Qin or Toku first. From Qin we might extort some techs for peace though, leaving him exiled on his island. I assume we would leave Toku completely exterminated.
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It was very nice of Qin to build GLH for us. I think we should take Qin out now. For one, his culture in the cap is boosted and it might be best to take it before his defenses beef up. He also has iron, but has not built any spears of yet...that may change over time. GLH will be a nice get and HAs get some experience before taking on Toku.
Maths would boost our chops and we need it too.
Man, Toku's relationship with other AIs seems jacked up. Will have to keep an eye on Alpha and possible trade it.
I think we can attack Qin in a few turns.
Maths would boost our chops and we need it too.
Man, Toku's relationship with other AIs seems jacked up. Will have to keep an eye on Alpha and possible trade it.
I think we can attack Qin in a few turns.
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TS played -
Qin's cities and GLH are now ours, plus his techs including IW but excluding Fishing, ofc. He now has 1city on another island, or is it a landmass?
War with Qin went quite well. 2 Swords and 2 Archers in the cap and I only lost 2 HAs. I lost none on Shanghai. Qin had an Axe near Gondor and a Sword and Axe parked in the forest outside Shanghai (near Lali), but he just kept those units frozen the whole time.
Maths is in and Aesths is timed to 4 turns which matches the GS from Aksum, so that we can bulb MC and Machinery. I was able to whip Aksum without losing the scientists...it grows back quick.
12 HAs near Gondor with 1 out of Gondor this turn makes 13. 2 HAs are still healing. We can start the war with Toku in the next turn or so. Probably should setup to move HAs over the river 1st turn and then attack. There's a nice 1 turn path to Kyoto over the horses. Aksum and Lali will be able to whip HAs in 2 turns, but we want to make sure we get Aeths in in 4. I'm building some research in some cities.
Beijing has iron and corn to work and a Lib coming in this turn. I thought I might just raze Shanghai, but the GLH makes it worth it, even though it is a crap city. There is a HA MP in Beijing that we want to replace asap...maybe the axe out of Lali this turn..and move him to the front. We still have a peace deal with Qin, but be wary of that axe/sword near Beijing in case he gets frisky later or bribed.
Oh...2 chinese workers captured to help with the windmill/watermill/workshop effort.
Interestingly, Toku has a settler that he will probably plant in the jungle. We may want to let him settle that city for us, although it may take forever to get to pop 2
Qin's cities and GLH are now ours, plus his techs including IW but excluding Fishing, ofc. He now has 1city on another island, or is it a landmass?
War with Qin went quite well. 2 Swords and 2 Archers in the cap and I only lost 2 HAs. I lost none on Shanghai. Qin had an Axe near Gondor and a Sword and Axe parked in the forest outside Shanghai (near Lali), but he just kept those units frozen the whole time.
Maths is in and Aesths is timed to 4 turns which matches the GS from Aksum, so that we can bulb MC and Machinery. I was able to whip Aksum without losing the scientists...it grows back quick.
12 HAs near Gondor with 1 out of Gondor this turn makes 13. 2 HAs are still healing. We can start the war with Toku in the next turn or so. Probably should setup to move HAs over the river 1st turn and then attack. There's a nice 1 turn path to Kyoto over the horses. Aksum and Lali will be able to whip HAs in 2 turns, but we want to make sure we get Aeths in in 4. I'm building some research in some cities.
Beijing has iron and corn to work and a Lib coming in this turn. I thought I might just raze Shanghai, but the GLH makes it worth it, even though it is a crap city. There is a HA MP in Beijing that we want to replace asap...maybe the axe out of Lali this turn..and move him to the front. We still have a peace deal with Qin, but be wary of that axe/sword near Beijing in case he gets frisky later or bribed.
Oh...2 chinese workers captured to help with the windmill/watermill/workshop effort.
Interestingly, Toku has a settler that he will probably plant in the jungle. We may want to let him settle that city for us, although it may take forever to get to pop 2
