RR15 - Mills for D. Quixote

[timmy827]

Ditto nocho, maybe we want to restart on Emperor since this one largely seems in the bag I look pretty foolish arguing against a HA war a few pages back. Excellent work.

Nice that since GLH requires Masonry + Lighthouse, it works for us even without fishing/sailing. Ofc we want those right after the bulbs so we can get trade routes (may require some scouting of the post-Toku landscape).

Looking at our power of 2x Toku, I wonder if we might switch production in Gondar to worker. We are pretty underworkered due to the variant and suddenly we'll have lots of jobs for them in a few turns with the Machinery bulb. OTOH maybe it makes sense to see how many workers Toku gives us. (I would rather take the Settler in Osaka as a Worker than the jungle choked city it will likely become. ) In any case, Beijing will be a great spot to whip workers from once Fishing is in.

Tech: after bulb, suggest Fishing->Sailing->Calendar. Our happy cap is still low and we will soon have dye/sugar (capitals borders gets the sugar next turn) in our borders as well as Gondar's spices

Do we want to try a Hanging Gardens bid? If so, building a Stele in Beijing may actually make sense to bring stone in range sooner. Landing it after taking Toku's land would be nice.

 

[r_rolo1]

I'm out of time for heavy comments, but my 0.02€ :

We need to be very careful about expansion now. I know we are sort of running a SE , but anyway, we are 7 gpt away of negative income at 100% cash. That, without some tile rearragement/ wealth ( that we can't do ) or some infusion of some quick bucks from pillage/conquest means that we are probably very close of the baseline if we keep 2 cities from what we conquer next or settle. OFC that will get better after we get machinery and fishing, but anyway we need to not overburn our current cash reserve ...

Oh and LK is UP

 

[lymond]

Your .02 Euros is worth more than my 2cents

Well, currency should be a priority, ofc. I'm not too worried. We'll get some cash in the war. We can recover.

 

[LKendter]

In the queue

 

[timmy827]

Your .02 Euros is worth more than my 2cents

Well, currency should be a priority, ofc. I'm not too worried. We'll get some cash in the war. We can recover.

Agree. Assuming we kill Toku, keep Kyoto & Osaka (maybe raze Tokyo and the new settler depending on quality) roughly when we complete Aesthetics/MC/Machinery then tech Fishing:
Working the seafood tiles at A-A and Beijing adds 7 commerce, Kyoto's gems another 6, getting to Sailing and finding the coastal cities of Sulei will add 10-14 from foreign trade routes pre-currency. (we would have 14 routes, Inca + Ottos curently have 10 cities total). Plus we can start doing mills, and remember that while our city+civic maintenance will go up our unit costs will come down from additional "free units" plus combat losses. We will be fine.

Also remember to pillage Toku's verboten improvements when we can get gold, esp any cottages. (If it diverts from city capturing, do it after capturing the city but before resistance ends/borders expand).

And more niggling micro things: Before ending 1st turn, suggest taking one of the unmoved, unpromoted HA's in Gondar, making it Medic I, and moving to the square with the two wounded HA's.

Also, the HA in Beijing is unneccessary for happiness right now. By variant rule, until Fishing the city can only work corn + iron + specialist or corn + iron + a forest after its border pop, so it will be at size 3 a while...that HA can join the war party, or pillage the illegal mines and cottage.

 

[LKendter]

450 BC
Wake up Beijing HA, and pillage "illegal" mine. We now have a medic 1 HA.


425 BC
Not sure what the workers are up to with interior forest. This variant really hates non-river tiles, so I am moving them off the forest.


400 BC
Where did Toku's 2 archers and settlers go?
(IT) Random event destroys buildings in Addis. Really annoys me that I can't click kill people. Right now pop is easier that buildings to replace. The stable is destroyed.


375 BC
I offer a pole to Toku, but he refuses it. I will need to show him what can go on a pole.
Two of our HA are distracted by worker collection duty before getting to Osaka.


350 BC



We have a great general in Lalibela waiting for a chariot to join in 2 turns.
(IT) We get an enemy units warning because Toku snuck a scout behind our lines.


325 BC
A scientist researches metal casting. Another researches metal casting and we enter the medieval era. It is time to replace the mine by Beijing with a wind mill.
I drop science to 0%. Our economy is in trouble still bleeding $7 / turn with $42 in the bank. Next up is fishing, and we will see how much that helps.


300 BC
I give Suly alphabet for sailing and polytheism. I realize this is a tech cap disaster, but we need to get moving ASAP to fix the economy. 26 turns now until currency.


275 BC








Summary:
I stopped here, to decide if kill Toku now or wait 10 turns. This is his current offer! I want him gone no matter what, but this is hard to resist.





I played a couple more turns after the picture to scout is last city. So far looks pretty crappy.



r_rolo1
nocho
lymond
LKendter - just played
IdiotsOpposite - UP
timmy827 - On deck

 

[LKendter]

My vote is take the peace deal.

 

[timmy827]

LK, you screwed up! By only losing one HA my hopes of economy-rescue-by-army-death have been dashed

I would stay at war one more turn before taking the peace treaty (pillaging the wheat, hopefully ensuring he doesn't put out a settler). Cheap colosseums could be pretty useful.

What do we think about trying to settle a clams/iron/gold city near the Ottos? A bit far and yes econ is poor but the gold would make it worthwhile.

Would switch A-A to a workboat then (cheap) lighthouse. Now that we have fishing its not a 2 tile resource grabber anymore; getting some food into it seems better than a forge that will take forever.

 

[r_rolo1]

I agree . We can finish toku in 10 turns anyway ...

On the last toku city ... well the demographics tab says that the worst civ around is working 6 F and/or 1H. As toku only decent visible tile is the 3F 1H wheat and he has 2 pop, he must be working another atleast 3F tile that is in the fog. In other words , his last city has seafood downthere. IMHO not a reason to not stop the war now ( Construction is good enough ), but a good reason to keep the city

Techwise from now on there is little discussion: Currency->CoL . In builds as well: we need a lot of more workers, because watermills are very expensive in worker turns . The only real question now is if we want to settle somewhere west of the previous toku cap. There are some decent spots there ...

EDIT x-post

What do we think about trying to settle a clams/iron/gold city near the Ottos? A bit far and yes econ is poor but the gold would make it worthwhile.

I agree ... the hap cap needs a boost

 

[lymond]

we want to get that jungle spot and calendar soon as welll...that city will be lush once it gets running

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Got it, will post sometime in the next couple of days. Probably today.

 

[lymond]

few thoughts:

1) some of the tile management seems odd to me

2) Let's trade Aesths for PH/Mono...look to acquire Monarchy soon

3) We should consider a switch to Bud for OR and some happiness.

4) Not sure I agree with the windmill in Aksum. First, we are improving the wrong hill first. Second, those hills serve as quasi-mines. Windmills reduce the amount of hammers. Better to get up watermills and workshops first.

Some cities can get windmills where they need food. Aksum does not need them now.

5) While I agree some worker tag teams are nice, I think we need to spread the worker love a bit more


6) Beijing should whip a tireme into a settler. Use the reme to scout East.

After Currency, Monarchy or Calendar should be a priority to acquire. We want to settle that jungle west of Aksum first. We can try to make a play for the gold/iron/clam site NW, but it may be risky.

 

[r_rolo1]

Just for the record ....

Roster

r_rolo1
nocho
lymond
LKendter - just played
IdiotsOpposite -UP
timmy827 - on deck

 

[timmy827]

few thoughts:

2) Let's trade Aesths for PH/Mono...look to acquire Monarchy soon

3) We should consider a switch to Bud for OR and some happiness.

Maybe a lopsided trade for Mono only? The most advanced AI (Huayna) has the low WFYABTA agreement, he should cut us off after ~8-9 techs I believe. Actually maybe take just Construction in the Toku peace deal too?

4) Not sure I agree with the windmill in Aksum. First, we are improving the wrong hill first. Second, those hills serve as quasi-mines. Windmills reduce the amount of hammers. Better to get up watermills and workshops first.

Some cities can get windmills where they need food. Aksum does not need them now.

Agree with the point about Aksum, but despite variant workshops are still total crap until we have 1 of {Guilds, Caste, Chemistry}, and even with 2 of those still equiv to plains or GH forest.

6) Beijing should whip a tireme into a settler. Use the reme to scout East.

Galley instead so we could use it to ferry troops if we want to finish off Qin?

We want to settle that jungle west of Aksum first. We can try to make a play for the gold/iron/clam site NW, but it may be risky.

Don't get the appeal of the jungle site. the only special we can't work with an existing city is the sugar, and even that can be connected for with current borders. Would be as big a worker labor sink as roading to clam/iron/gold, and watermills aren't terrific yet, so a 4-special city (also getting GLH trade routes) seems more appealing.

Techs: would research Calendar before Monarchy, just because the AI trades the latter at monopoly.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Well this is an interesting discussion. I think I'll leave the game alone for a few hours, see what comes of this.

 

[lymond]

Maybe a lopsided trade for Mono only? The most advanced AI (Huayna) has the low WFYABTA agreement, he should cut us off after ~8-9 techs I believe. Actually maybe take just Construction in the Toku peace deal too?

Mono and PH. I think it's worth it, especially for OR. Aeths is bout worthless at this point. We can trade with Silly.

I'd take anything Toku would give us. Why worry about that? This is Monarch. We are going to blow these AIs away. I'm not worried about WFY at all.

Agree with the point about Aksum, but despite variant workshops are still total crap until we have 1 of {Guilds, Caste, Chemistry}, and even with 2 of those still equiv to plains or GH forest.

True. I'm thinking more about having workshops in place (opposite watermills) for when the bonuses arrive, but agree that they are not exactly a priority over more powerful improvements now.

At minimum, we can pre-windmill those hills to one turn and finish them later when workshop bonuses kick in.

Regardless, as mentioned, we need to spread the workers around a bit to all cities.

Galley instead so we could use it to ferry troops if we want to finish off Qin?

I'd rather have a stronger scout unit now that barb galleys should be appearing soon - potentially going as far as it can. Not so concerned about Qin for a while. I would like to see what is over there and how much land he has to work with.

Don't get the appeal of the jungle site. the only special we can't work with an existing city is the sugar, and even that can be connected for with current borders. Would be as big a worker labor sink as roading to clam/iron/gold, and watermills aren't terrific yet, so a 4-special city (also getting GLH trade routes) seems more appealing.

Reasonable point. I did not consider GLH at the time I wrote it. A couple of decent coastal spots can be settled close to home to boost trade routes. I do think that the jungle city will be very nice at some point and at least we can start the effort to terraform it.

Honestly, with Currency almost in and GLH, we can settle 3 or 4 cities asap with no issues.

Techs: would research Calendar before Monarchy, just because the AI trades the latter at monopoly.

Yeah...I'm fine with either one. Both will give happiness. We could also go for Music.

 

[r_rolo1]

IO, any news ? :/

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Working on it. I figure I'll have it posted by 1 PM today. (For reference, it's 11:22 AM today right now)

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Turn 106 (0): 106 is such an awkward number... I'll play 14 turns. I need even numbers.

Turn 107 (1): I pillage the wheat-road and then start talkin' peace with Toku. What will he offer?

Meditation and Construction? I accept!

Nice to get those. Now on the domestic front... I want that clam-iron-gold city. I want it before the Ottomans get it. Make various building things, switch Beijing to a Trireme - planning on whipping that soon.

Turn 108 (2): Whip Trireme, start Settler.

Turn 114 (8): We get a MASSIVE boost in gold... +8 at 0%. I can't figure out why, but it might be Beijing and Gondar returning to happiness? Well, might as well use it.

Never mind, it's because Kyoto started working the Gems. Good Kyoto!

Make a trade with Huayna that I should have made a while ago...

Turn 117 (11): Huayna cancels his Cow-Pig trade with us. Saddening... Also, Qin founds Confu and converts to it. Have fun with that.

Turn 118 (12): The peace treaty with Toku cancels. I could war with him now, but it might be better to wait two turns and see what the group thinks...

Turn 119 (13): The Colossus gets built in a far away land... meh.

Turn 120 (14): And that's a set. Somewhat boring, but I guess that's what you get post-war. We're one turn from Currency, so that's nice. I'm sure someone like r_rolo or LKendter would have gotten it on this turnset, but... I'm not that good. I'd recommend warring on Toku, getting that last city and making it so we never have to worry about Motherland penalties. I've got a settler next to the gold-iron-clam city, and another one being built in Aksum. A trireme is coasting around that south-east island... it's pretty small. I've got a few cities building research, but that's only because I wasn't sure what else to build.

So, how bad did I screw up the game?

 

[·Imhotep·]

lurker's comment:

Conquering the world with a few horses - is this Civ V? Excellent play so far guys!