Ruff08 - The AI Shuffle

RRRaskolnikov · Jan 27, 2009

I have to delay the round for one more day... in the meantime, we could discuss of our GS, as bulbing part of PP is not allowed

Meiz · Jan 28, 2009

We all know how the AI loves academies

. Too bad I'm not able to access the game to give any suggestions for the actual city.

RRRaskolnikov · Jan 28, 2009

Hum I really have few ideas on where to put an academy (and can't access the save either)... Orleans is one our oldest city but the gain from the academy wouldn't be exactly awesome... perhaps just settle the guy in one of our two academies (Paris and gem city)??? I just reread the last sets, and can't find a trace of the HE? Is this still unbuilt :eek:

? I swear I don't believe sometimes the AI win games :wallbash:

RRRaskolnikov · Jan 28, 2009

OK played ten turns until this...

Spoiler :

IHT: I reconfigure cities for growth , make an academy in Orleans (the most developped city but still painfull).

Spoiler :

A little deal with Zara:

Spoiler :

I put the slider to 100% (to benefit from all these academies) and hit enter.

t186: Zara wants to trade guild against optic + some gold... no thanks... something tells me that making boats won't help us against the english or Zara's forces.

t187: Philo is in.
We start liberalism (for free speech obviously

). Boudica makes peace with the americans.

t188: Liz asks for gunpowder... keep dreaming, yet another '-1' diplo modifier for you...

Spoiler :

Paris: uni -> musketeer.

t189: :mad:

the water supply of Lyon is destroyed
Lyon: theater -> HE (not a unit but can't be seen as a peacefull build either). This city has four hills + phants, so can be nice (with some workshops) for production. Plus it will help its culture problem (razing Akkad would help more though :mischief:

)...

t190: Roosevelt also asks for gunpowder... you know the song dude? Yet another '-1' diplo modifier for you...

Spoiler :

t191: Tours: musketeer -> hindu missionary (human decision), as Chicago lacks the true faith.
Canterbury: theater -> treb
York: theater -> treb

t192: The plantation near Chicago is destroyed by ennemies spys...
Liberalism is in...

Spoiler :

We pick Nationalism.

Spoiler :

We start on banking (for the awesome banks, as we can't seem yet the link with us being able to produce "improved musket").

Rheims: harbor -> treb
Paris: Musket -> Taj (to change civics, moreover we have marble, and we are first to nationalism).
Marseille: treb -> theater
orleans: musket -> musket

Boudica declares on Liz... :mischief:

... Our troops want to burn London as well, and I don't have the heart to prevent that... We declare as well on the english...

Spoiler :

t193: Zara gets a GE...
t194: Izzy want us to declare on Hammu... no way, yet another '-1' diplo modifier for you...

Spoiler :

Chicago starts on a granary.
A revolt happens in York (probably english resistants who have seen our stack marching to London

)...

Spoiler :

t195: Hammu wants us to declare on Izzy: sorry buddy, we have enough on our hands right now

Spoiler :

Banking is in... but our people don't care because...

Spoiler :

A 23 gpt shrine to boot :hammer:

...

Boudica had reduced the defense to 0, but I had to sacrifice two trebs and a cats to take the city. More troops are on the way and the pike in the stack just outside the city can move (if you feel London will suffer a knight attack).

Notes: We should switch civics when the GA starts (if we don't get beaten on the Taj of course). I put PP as next research but that can be changed. Obviously, our people still don't see how it could do us any good for now... but some have heard about mysterious improved weapons, which were called in an old french legend "fusils"...
We can hire two scientists in Lyon for three turns so this city pops the next GP. Otherwise, the GP points in Lyon would be nearly lost as Paris produces a lot more GPP than Lyon and would beat it for the next GP.

Overview:

Spoiler :

Techs:

Spoiler :

Diplo in next post

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

RRRaskolnikov · Jan 28, 2009

Hammurabi: Pleased (+6)

Spoiler :

Boudica: Friendly (+11) +1 shared mutual struggle

Spoiler :

Isabella: Annoyed (-7) -1 asked to declare on our friend

Spoiler :

Zara Yaqob: Cautious (-1) +1 you provided us with luxuries...

Spoiler :

Elizabeth: Furious (-12) <- Worst Enemy!! -1 You made an arrogant demand, +2 You are dying, I start having sympathy for you

Spoiler :

Roosevelt: Annoyed (-7) -1 arrogant demand

Spoiler :

Tokugawa: Annoyed (-5)

Spoiler :

I have put the modifier of this round outside the spoilers to be clear. They are taken into account in the totals.
Don't you think we should forget some arrogant demands after a while, because otherwise we will soon hate everyone :lol:

Cheers

Meiz · Jan 29, 2009

Great round, loving that shrine already!

Let's try to trade Music from Boudica (best tech ever!) and Optics from our friend Hammy.

And yeah, we should let some of those demand modifiers to fade soon. I'm also wondering why Hammy get +4 for shared religion and Boobs get only 2... Maybe +3 to both to balance things out?

RRRaskolnikov · Jan 29, 2009

Good point Meiz for the religion modifier... well we have this problem from some rounds at least

mischief: yeah I pasted Ralph's diplo summary and modified it)... I will edit it and put a -3 to both

.
The trades are there, but we don't need the techs for now (only needed is music to build later cavs)... feel free to do it still. And yeah, that shrine will be great, hopefully the AI will make us build bank, grocer, and market in London, as well as some missionaries (Nappy is not known to propagate religion unlike Sal for instance, so we will have to take human actions to do this)

Cheers

Meiz · Jan 29, 2009

I know we don't need the techs but hey, they're our friends! And I would think that most of the time AI doesn't give a s*** about the practical value

RRRaskolnikov · Jan 29, 2009

Meiz said:
I know we don't need the techs but hey, they're our friends! And I would think that most of the time AI doesn't give a s*** about the practical value

agreed and agreed

let's trade these techs!
Anyway, we need to keep an eye on Roosy as he is trying to escape on the tech tree, and Zara (big as usual)... They are the only potent ennemies remaining...

ruff_hi · Jan 29, 2009

Roster
Ruff <-- up
r_rolo1 <-- on deck
Meiz
Ralph_Jackson
RRRaskolnikov

Got it.

ruff_hi · Jan 29, 2009

I start the round by a bit of MM, Paris, our capital, is a great city that doesn't have enough food to work all of its hammer tiles. Too many cottages. I think that my next SG will be a no-cottage game to break people's reliance on them. I also pick up some techs via trade with out trading block (see log).

The aim of this set is to see off Lizzie - lets see how I do.

To this end, I move some units towards her cities that are left on the mainland (Nottingham and Hastings). I only send 2 Musketeers to Nottingham which is never enough units to actually take the city ... but Boudica is in the area and I am hoping to pouch that city from her. Lizzie has about 5 or 6 defensive units there plus about 50% cultural defense ...

Nice work Boudica - she bombed down the defenses, killed off all bar 2 units and heavily injured them! My 2 units were just the right number - I love it when plans like this come off.

While attacking in English territory at Nottingham, Musketeer (9.00/9) defeats English Pikeman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in English territory at Nottingham, Musketeer (9.00/9) defeats English Longbowman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Captured Nottingham (Elizabeth)
Nottingham has the Church of the Money Changes - we should spread some religions to benefit from these shrines we have - don't worry about it not being to AI-like ... just channel Isabella for a bit and you'll do fine

.

We get a Great Scientist (some Russian guy) and I hold him for team discussion - bahhh! ... no I don't, I burn him on a Golden Age (8 turns!) - love playing during GAs.

We get a GG that I settle in our military pump city (the one with the Heroic Epic and now a Forge) - Lyons. Not a hugely hammer heavy city but good enough - we should put this city onto constant unit production (within the SG rules) and see if we should swap one of those farms to a workshop for even more hammers - I'll leave that as homework for the rest of you :lol:

. Typically, I put my Heroic Epic in a big hammer city but someone mentioned that you are tempted to use this city to build wonders - thus wasting the benefits of HE. What do others typically do?

We complete the Taj Mahal - 8 more turns of GA! woo hoo! And we capture Hastings - very easy ... cat knocks city defense down from 40% to 32%, two Trebs roll in and both withdraw (woot!), then in go the CR troops - smash, bang, blood, guts, gore ... a city and 2 workers (to replace the one I lost to a rogue English Elephant :mad:

). Then I take peace, map and Lizzie is now our vassal - we should direct her research and milk her for as much as we can - she is currently 5 turns from Economics.

I sell Liberalism to Boudica for her map and 110 gold - I am pretty sure that this will land us the +1 circumnavigation bonus

. She is Friendly with us but will not accept any war bribes - needs to be pleased (shees - what is it with this girl!).

Zara Yaqob will accept war against America for Nat, Lib and Printing Press - a big pricey but I would love to see those two take a bite out of each other ...

Spoiler :

... while we roll on and fight that snobby guy who is 'stud'n on killen us' (Tokugawa). Our new French / old English cities are under pretty strong cultural pressure from both him and America - maybe we can sneak in and take out those 2 American cities that are near us while America is engaged with Zara :run:

.

Spoiler log :

ruff_hi · Jan 29, 2009

Hammurabi: Cautious (+4)

Spoiler :

Boudica: Pleased (+14)

Spoiler :

Isabella: Annoyed (-7)

Spoiler :

Zara Yaqob: Annoyed (-5)

Spoiler :

Elizabeth: who cares

Spoiler :

Roosevelt: Annoyed (-9)

Spoiler :

Tokugawa: Furious (-11)

Spoiler :

RRRaskolnikov · Jan 29, 2009

About Paris: I agree this city hasn't enough food for the moment... needs farms or windmils. The cottages were put (at least those built by me

) to have sinergy with the academy, and bureaucraty...

Now, I can say to you that I very much like to experiment with civ implementation and I am not the usual cottage spammer... I would love to see an SG with hardcore SE... ( be it only farms, or mix of farms + workshops).

About the HE: Lyon and Paris are our best hammer cities. And Paris had already the NE so this dictated the choice

. I tend to put the maximum hammer output in the HE (as in all hammer city btw). The argument that you would be tempted to make wonders in your HE city should not be one lol... troops spam ftw! Max hammer output means just enough food to support all the tiles in the city radius, mines on hills, max workshops in the flat lands. Watermills can be needed if you can't feed the city with a good number of farm (sometimes you lack one food , so you put a watermill instead of a workshop because adding one farm would in fine leads to run an engeener, which is not good for prod output). Windmills and cottages are forbidden in a hammer city

. There is an excellent article in the war academy by VoU about that... obviously all this applies in cities you don't whip...

Good points with spreading religion... now we have two shrines :cool:

off topic: can you give me a link to download BUG Mr BUG?

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

ruff_hi · Jan 29, 2009

RRRaskolnikov said:
off topic: can you give me a link to download BUG Mr BUG?

There is a whole forum just for BUG.

Meiz · Jan 30, 2009

About Paris: I guess it's just my personal playing habit, but I always go for cottages with bureaurcracy and academy capital, even if I'm running SE otherwise. Some mines might need to be changed to windmills but in my opinion it's worth the benefit.

What does rest of the team think? Should this still be changed?

And about the war bribe: If we're going to play like the AI would, I think we need to declare war against America first and only then bribe Zara in. I think this should also lower the bribe cost.

RRRaskolnikov · Jan 30, 2009

Tx Ruff!

r_rolo1 · Jan 30, 2009

Well, MM discussions aside ( :hammers:

=

) , Got it

BtW, did we really needed to burn the GS in a GA ? :cry:

As for war, DoWing first will surely put the Zara deal more light....

ruff_hi · Jan 30, 2009

r_rolo1 said:
BtW, did we really needed to burn the GS in a GA ?

YES!!! Mwahhhh! Don't worry - you have an 85% (IIRC) chance of another one in a few turns.

r_rolo1 · Feb 1, 2009

Well, we are in the middle of two wars most surely, so it is time to build. The almighty Sid agrees with that, so this turnset was basically making theatres, salons and such.

Firaxis, just a note:

Spoiler :

Even, if only one time per session, this happening in ALL of the cities that we captured to Liz is excruciatingly annoying.

AI started asking stuff, first politely....

Spoiler :

Then with tall orders....

Spoiler :

I'm not in the mood to be generous.... add -1 to roosevelt

We have a problem in the west:

Spoiler :

Fortunaltely I pushed almost all the army to London before that happening

Now a question. Should we had diplo - because of bad events ?

Spoiler :

Some deals with our vassal:

Spoiler :

I forgot to take a sceeenie, but we bought Astro this turn... and the allmighty Sid decided that we should spam Salons everywhere ( given that we are in Rep, it is not such a bad idea....

BTW we really got a GS , ruff

Spoiler :

I settled it in Paris... there were pretty decent odds of getting another GS before the GA ends

And we were happily building units for the oncoming war with Japan ( and maybe with Mrs Zealot, given that she decided to get hands full and we are her worst enemy ), when our Favourite girl decided to waltz again with the american dude:

Spoiler :

I'm still pondering if we should help her now or only at request... capturing the American northern cities would be pretty OK

Anyway, turnset end:

Spoiler :

Now it is just a matter of deciding if we are a backstabbing civ and we dogpile Roosie or if we decide to go after the isolacionist swine ( he adopted Merc BTW ). I'm slightly more inclined to go after Roosevelt...

ruff_hi · Feb 1, 2009

Roster
Ruff
r_rolo1
Meiz <-- up
Ralph_Jackson <-- on deck
RRRaskolnikov

My preference is to remove that disgusting shade of red from our new French cities. At least the Americans have the right color (blue).

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