rushing wonders

[RohirrimElf]

"Building civilizations has been made much easier as well, particularly with the change from workers to builders. Instead of a permanent unit that steadily churns out tile improvements, builders have a limited number of charges but constructs improvements instantly. This way, you can take advantage of nearby resources and luxuries immediately, bolstering new cities near the start of its foundation. Builders can also accelerate the creation of wonders, which now requires its own tile to construct, making the chase toward finishing wonders about speed."

source: http://www.gamerevolution.com/preview/sid-meiers-civilization-vi#/slide/1


I liked and disliked the mechanic from civ 4 with "rise" mod. From which you could produce a maximum of 5 trade caravans to rush eather food or production. I`m scared that wonders will only take a (very) limited time to complete when you create builders (civ 6) from each city. So maximizing your whole civilization to rush a certain wonder like silk road. To gain a huge advantage. I liked the fact that i could outproduce most AI`s by this rush (all in) strategy. I`m just hoping the AI can cope with human players. Beelining tech and production to complete a wonder. And it does take a reasonably time to complete a wonder. Planned right i could put one down really fast with civ 4.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

According to Quill, rushing Wonders with Builders is a China UA.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

"Building civilizations has been made much easier as well, particularly with the change from workers to builders. Instead of a permanent unit that steadily churns out tile improvements, builders have a limited number of charges but constructs improvements instantly. This way, you can take advantage of nearby resources and luxuries immediately, bolstering new cities near the start of its foundation. Builders can also accelerate the creation of wonders, which now requires its own tile to construct, making the chase toward finishing wonders about speed."

source: http://www.gamerevolution.com/preview/sid-meiers-civilization-vi#/slide/1


I liked and disliked the mechanic from civ 4 with "rise" mod. From which you could produce a maximum of 5 trade caravans to rush eather food or production. I`m scared that wonders will only take a (very) limited time to complete when you create builders (civ 6) from each city. So maximizing your whole civilization to rush a certain wonder like silk road. To gain a huge advantage. I liked the fact that i could outproduce most AI`s by this rush (all in) strategy. I`m just hoping the AI can cope with human players. Beelining tech and production to complete a wonder. And it does take a reasonably time to complete a wonder. Planned right i could put one down really fast with civ 4.

Not sure what I think about this quite yet over workers . . . will need to play it. Part of the attraction to Civ is that you need to wait to get those thing done.

 

[RohirrimElf]

According to Quill, rushing Wonders with Builders is a China UA.

Wow, this would be an insane trait. Hope 2k knows what they are doing with this builder mechanic.

 

[RohirrimElf]

Not sure what I think about this quite yet over workers . . . will need to play it. Part of the attraction to Civ is that you need to wait to get those thing done.

Not sure what to think of it as well. I always gave a huge priority to work my tiles afap (civ4/5)

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

According to Quill, rushing Wonders with Builders is a China UA.

Hmm... Reminds me of PAC from Beyond Earth (after Rising Tide)...

 

[SupremacyKing2]

Wow, this would be an insane trait. Hope 2k knows what they are doing with this builder mechanic.

As far I can tell, the trait only accelerates the construction of the wonder, it is not a 1 turn rush build. My guess is that a builder can use one build to add x production points to the wonder. So it will speed up the construction of the wonder at a cost of a build for your builder. It may even consume the builder entirely. So there is a cost to it. Players will need to evaluate if it is worth accelerating the construction of the wonder or use the builder on tile improvements or districts.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Not sure what to think of it as well. I always gave a huge priority to work my tiles afap (civ4/5)

Will wait and see though. At one time I would have said the same thing about transport ship units. Who misses them now?

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I do like that the trait functionally changes the gameplay for that civ. Hopefully, this bodes well for the other civ's traits. I think traits like this are far more interesting than simply +1 or +3 traits because they actually change how you play with that civ. This should give each civ a much more distinct playing style.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Hmm... Reminds me of PAC from Beyond Earth (after Rising Tide)...

I agree. That one was 1 free Wonder per city. It turned out not to be as powerful as it sounds because the Wonders were underpowered.

Also, it didn't sound like it was 1 Builder to completely finish a Wonder. Quill mentioned using all 3 charges towards a Wonder.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I agree. That one was 1 free Wonder per city. It turned out not to be as powerful as it sounds because the Wonders were underpowered.

Or it is really powerful because there are a handful of wonders worth having, and PAC can get all of them.

If rushing wonders with wor.., builders is unique to China, I hope every civ has a really unique, powerful and flexible ability instead of a simple percentage bonus to something.
Quill said that each builder charge gave him between 15 and 20% progress towards Stonehenge. So, one builder gives you 60-80 % to one of the earliest and cheapest wonder. Sounds really powerful, but might not be viable past the Classical era. Hoarding builders to quickly rush a later wonder might not always be worth it due to unit maintennce

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

"For my hands-on opportunity I played as China, and found that Chinese workers have one extra charge (four uses rather than three) and can also be used to partially rush the construction of a wonder. " From Link

I can imagine that all civs can rush wonders an that the chinese unique ability is that builders get an additional charge (assuming that what Quill18 said could be a misconception regarding the UA).

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

"For my hands-on opportunity I played as China, and found that Chinese workers have one extra charge (four uses rather than three) and can also be used to partially rush the construction of a wonder. " From Link

I can imagine that all civs can rush wonders an that the chinese unique ability is that builders get an additional charge (assuming that what Quill18 said could be a misconception regarding the UA).

That seems like it's going to be removed fairly quickly. If everyone can do it then what stops me from just building several builders and just rushing the wonder.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

If everyone can do it then what stops me from just building several builders and just rushing the wonder.

Nothing stops you but remember that builders disappear now when they use up all their builds. Players will need to weight carefully how they spend each build since once it is used on a tile improvement or wonder, it is gone for good. So if you get some builders and use them to rush a wonder, you will have to "build" new builders in your city. It could put you behind in infrastructure since you used your builders on a wonder instead of making tile improvements.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Nothing stops you but remember that builders disappear now when they use up all their builds. Players will need to weight carefully how they spend each build since once it is used on a tile improvement or wonder, it is gone for good. So if you get some builders and use them to rush a wonder, you will have to "build" new builders in your city. It could put you behind in infrastructure since you used your builders on a wonder instead of making tile improvements.

Well not necessairly, If I say build 4 builders, each with 3 builds, that's 12 builds altogether. I can spend 9 builds on the wonder and still use the remaining 3 on the improvement. Now remember, that you won't be working ALL the tiles immediately either, so I could just build the other build unit later and still in theory catch up relatively quickly without a huge disadvantage.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Nothing stops you but remember that builders disappear now when they use up all their builds. Players will need to weight carefully how they spend each build since once it is used on a tile improvement or wonder, it is gone for good. So if you get some builders and use them to rush a wonder, you will have to "build" new builders in your city. It could put you behind in infrastructure since you used your builders on a wonder instead of making tile improvements.

There also could be some kind of decreasing effectiveness or increasing cost mechanic to balance it out.

And if you're rushing all the Wonders, you're using up room for improvements and districts.

 

[Seek]

Quill estimated that the builder added about 15-20% production per charge.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Quill estimated that the builder added about 15-20% production per charge.

Numbers are subject to change.

 

[UWHabs]

Plus if the builder needs to be on the tile, you would only be able to use one charge per turn on the wonder anyways, so it would be limited that way as well.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Plus if the builder needs to be on the tile, you would only be able to use one charge per turn on the wonder anyways, so it would be limited that way as well.

They could also make it be 20% of the remaining hammers needed.