Sana03 - Who ate the RaR scientists?

[Zorn]

When Stonehenge has a worldwide effekt, then I?m for it, too. I just would let Haraiki finish whatever it builds, with a GL there is no need to hurry.
The only other wonder that comes to my mind as useful would be the lighthouse. We could do without, but it would be nicer if no AI had it.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

lurker's comment: Slave Trade is not continental. IIRC all other AA wonders are.
Ok, happiness is normally a problem - but you're forced to 40% Luxury anyway . And ST has the Colossus effect as well.

Lighthouse has a completely different effect, btw (city size 3).

Mali.
That's just the ugly case of neither production nor growth. But the same happens in unmodded often enough - just watch a replay: Where do you think those AI cities destroyed before 2000BC without war or vulcano end? In a Settler....

 

[sanabas]

lurker's comment: Slave Trade is not continental. IIRC all other AA wonders are.
Ok, happiness is normally a problem - but you're forced to 40% Luxury anyway . And ST has the Colossus effect as well.

Mali.
That's just the ugly case of neither production nor growth. But the same happens in unmodded often enough - just watch a replay: Where do you think those AI cities destroyed before 2000BC without war or vulcano end? In a Settler....

I had a look at the civpedia.txt file while typing my last post, and stonehenge's entry said "granary to all cities" Pretty sure the other AA wonders were continental though.

Slave Trade is at least second choice for me. Colossus effect is not as helpful for us when we're not doing research.

Agree it happens in unmodded too, just RAR in chiefdom provides more opportunities for spectacular stupidity like that, especially for AGR civs.

When Stonehenge has a worldwide effekt, then I?m for it, too. I just would let Haraiki finish whatever it builds, with a GL there is no need to hurry.
The only other wonder that comes to my mind as useful would be the lighthouse. We could do without, but it would be nicer if no AI had it.

Haraiki has just finished a clan this turn, and its next build should be a granary anyway. So now is a good time for the SGL.

Lighthouse has a completely different effect, btw (city size 3).

@Doc: What have I forgotten about lighthouse? IIRC, it is movement +1, lets us use sea tiles (which we already can) & will trigger our GA (EXP & SEA), which we really don't want yet. All of which is the same as C3C.

 

[namliaM]

OK so stonehenge it is? Hmmm need to read up on RaR (small) wonders

 

[Zorn]

I vaguely remember now that the GLH was mentioned in the 1.04 readme. I think it was something like that it now also acts as a major port.
I will check it.
Well, I was close. No more +1 movement (boo! I loved those movement 6 curraghs) but acts as a sewer.
Wow, imagnine, a ancient metropolis. Nice thought.

I looked at the 1.04 bic and looked at all ancient wonders.

Continental buildings are granted by:

- Chicen Itza
- Great Wall
- Pyramids
- Sphinx

Nation-wide buildings are given by

- Ankor Wat
- Slave Trade
- Stonehenge

We don`t need Ankor Wat, so only Stonehenge and Slave trade remain.
Stonehenge kosts 32, slave trade 22.

 

[sanabas]

And we need granaries more than slave markets. So it appears that Stonehenge it is. Nice work Zorn.

Lighthouse looks nice too now, if it's still available when Haraiki has stopped spamming out settlers and is closing in on size 14 we might want to build it. International Port & a free sewer system in the Middle Ages

How does the lighthouse expiring work with the ability to grow to a metropolis? Does that ability stay, or is the city stuck at whatever size above 14 it's at when the lighthouse expires?

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Once you have that much population, the game makes sure you keep it, normally - IE when you capture a size 20 city, it'll always come with its hospital or Shake's. I'd think, first hand, that its effects all expire unless your city is big enough, whereas only the sewer effect remains. But that's just me.

 

[namliaM]

Pre-turn: Rush Stonehenge... Mark... I did something good...

IT: Stonehenge done (Duh!) Now what?
Shrine? .. No... Altar... No.. I will build a harbor, we can use the food?! I think...
Mali start Oracle

1@1475 Do some exploring, clan S

IT: Gandhi demands 63g, No way! He says, he will remember ... *I shiver*

2@1450 Found Pukapuka> Forge, Some more exploring

IT: zzzz

3@1425 Explore

IT: Ottomans Dow Spain
Tikei Worker> Darn... LOL Harber too, it can allways be switched later .... LOL... I feel like a right n00b

4@1400 India has Dyna, Hmmmzzzz Only 4 turns left... Not buy it... They revolt directly

IT: Haraiki Harbor> Darn... We can use an Otomo no Makuta to fend of any barbs... Build one!

5@1350 Explore

IT: Spain demands our Trigger leaves her lands.

6@1325 Down Sci to 10% Dyna in 1 (Must revolt, if i am right)

IT: Dyna, Set research to math, Set sci to 0, Lux to 0, Revolt => Forget to look at the turns

7@1300 China revolts, they have Naval warfare but are unwilling to trade for Ferm... Also its a monopoly.. do not buy it...
Explore

IT: Japanese start Hanging Gardens

8@1275 Haraiki is about to riot, create a clown.

IT: English ask us to leave

9@1250 Miss out 1250 somehow (not paying attention?!)

Its turn 90! I missed out on 1375 as well ... Geezzzzzz... n00b...

Ottoman have Fermentation now too... We can sell fermentation arround starting at the Arabs
Then going around the map, 60 + 51 + 44 + 39 + 30 + 15 + 9 = 248g Good idea (I allmost went and did it...)

Looking back the harbor was probably a mistake ... We have to grow a bit before we need it in Haraiki. Better have build a Monument?

Ze zave

I attempted something of a dotmap, I know I did not know where to put the Clan.... Maybe something to talk about (or tell me about?)

 

[ThERat]

once we are in out of anarchy, we grow and churn out more settlers, dot plan does not look too bad.

got it, will play tonight

 

[sanabas]

Nice work namliaM. Dotmap looks ok, it's hard to see where the jungle food bonuses are under the coloured territory. We want to start colonising the other islands too, I'd rather do that and fill in our jungle later.

Don't think the harbour's a mistake, it will be useful soon. No real reason to build a monument, we don't need the culture that much.

 

[namliaM]

Looking at it today, with some sleep gotten

Placement is kindoff loose and is wasting one very usable tile...

Hmz...

How about city 4 => 1N (pulling in the lost tile)

But that messes up the entire "plan" and I did not want to place a city next to a vulcano..... What a buggy Island this is....

How about trading Ferm around for the (possibly) 248 gold?? *ching ching*

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-Turn
ok, anarchy for another 2 turns
change tile assingments a little for growth
there is still an unmet Civ out there
China has Naval warfare, get it for fermentation and 90g
sell it to India for 150g
wait with other deals, 300g not worth selling everything

1. 1225BC
nth much, sell vikings fermentation for 85g

IT we become a Monarchy

2. 1200BC
switch off research, lux at 10% and we make 20gpt
rigger goes north and spots new border

3. 1175BC
meet last unknown Civ, the Sioux, they know nothing and are as dumb as mali (building cultivator in 2pop city)
buy monopoly tech bronze working from India for 370g
sell it to 2 Civs for 241g + 7gpt
good news, our jungle is blessed with 6 gems

4. 1150BC
zzzz

IT China demands 68g, no way, and they claim we are foolish, but courageous

5. 1125BC
3 civs know mathematics
get it +10g from Vikings for weaving
sell it to India and Japan for 272g

6. 1100BC
rigger approaches Island and

so much about no research
do not trade for the moment since it's a monopoly

7. 1075BC
zzz

8. 1050BC
nth

9. 1025BC
India knows construction now
wait for a turn to see whether they trade it

10. 1190AD
China knows contruction now as well
trade poetry to China for construction and 10g
since China knows nobody, did not trade poetry or other techs for money.
India has around 460g, which we could milk a little


we will get a hardy in 2 turns. I would settle roaded jungle to get the gems
Next settler to be sent to other Islands. Haraiki currently building some defense to deter amphibious attacks
both boats are on their way home to transport units
by the way, every turn research needs to be set to 0%, do NOT forget that
we currently have 1420g and make 22gpt

 

[namliaM]

we will get a hardy in 2 turns. I would settle roaded jungle to get the gems
Next settler to be sent to other Islands. Haraiki currently building some defense to deter amphibious attacks
both boats are on their way home to transport units
by the way, every turn research needs to be set to 0%, do NOT forget that
we currently have 1420g and make 22gpt

Every turn? If you put it to 0 it does not stay at 0??? ack! I did not notice that... Tho right after dyna I revolted... so there was no research.

"In the roaded jungle " Is that per my dotmap? I will try to look at the save tonight and make a new one...

 

[T_McC]

by the way, every turn research needs to be set to 0%, do NOT forget that

lurker's comment:
Not to be too picky ... but maybe that should read "set lux to 40%", given that Monarchy has a 60% rate cap. So if you want max taxes, you should only be trying to get 60%. You can circumvent the rate cap by resetting the sliders every turn, but I don't think you really want to do that.

 

[Zorn]

I don`t know - I think we should just set lux to 40% and let it there. Overriding the cap every turn seems a little expoitive, not to mention tedious to me.

I think I am up, but I will wait a few hours before I play, in case anyone has some advice.

 

[sanabas]

Every turn? If you put it to 0 it does not stay at 0??? ack! I did not notice that... Tho right after dyna I revolted... so there was no research.

"In the roaded jungle " Is that per my dotmap? I will try to look at the save tonight and make a new one...

Nice trading ThERat, no research and still a big tech lead. Emperor AIs obviously get access to the map's super-secret resource: Maybe Deity AIs for this next time?

namliaM, it would stay at 0 during anarchy, as anarchy has a 100% cap. Monarchy has a 60% cap, and as pointed out, circumventing this is a big, fat, hard-coded, exploit.

Zorn, please set the lux rate to a minimum of 40%.

we will get a hardy in 2 turns. I would settle roaded jungle to get the gems

If the next place to settle is on a roaded jungle, we don't need a hardy settler for it, a regular one will be fine. I'd rather see the hardy one used further north where hardiness is required (somewhere around new city 4 on namliaM's map maybe), with a regular clan later for the road. No rush for the gems, as 40% lux means no happiness issues for a while, and we can't trade them over sea tiles yet. I've saved namliaM's map, I'll edit it to take out the coloured territory, add in the gems, and add my own thoughts to it.

Not much advice Zorn, biggest priority should still be expansion, especially to the vacant islands to the west, and continue the trades when we can pull off 2 or 3-fers. No reason to buy a monopoly tech, unless it will be an immediately very useful one. (i.e. Democracy)

 

[sanabas]

roster:

Sanabas
namliaM
ThERat
Zorn - playing
Beorn-El-Feared - on deck

Remember, we may now only research Dark Ages. No other science allowed.
Circumventing rate caps is an exploit, please make sure lux% is high enough that we don't do it.

 

[Zorn]

Not a terrible lot happened, so I won`t make a turn by turn log but just point out the highlights.

The bad: Ottomans and Japan demanded naval warfare. That is a tech I don´t want the AI to have, so I denied. They both declared. Japan is quite close, so I used our curragh to have an eye on them and buildt a wargalley, just in case.

The good: We got riding from a goody-hut on an island. So much for no researching..
The hardy pioneer founded a new city. I know it is next to a volcano, but I have never ever witnessed a volcano killing a city, so I don´t really care about them any more. If it gets destroyed I will wear a fools cap. The roaded jungle tile is still waiting for a normal pioneer.
One pioneer is en route to the eastern islands.

The "I`m not so sure"
I traded poetry and riding, for some cash and tech: 660 gold and, more important, civil engeneering. We are at least equal in tech.
Our capitol is building slave trade. It helps all cities and we can easily afford the bad effects. However, it can still be changed to a water mill, or palace gardens without loss.

Notes:
Pupapupa is building a shipyard. I think we should have a small navy to stop the AI from doing silly things.
Our glorious land-military consists of one spear. He sleeps between our cities, on tile where he can fortify each city should the need arise.

 

[sanabas]

The bad: Ottomans and Japan demanded naval warfare. That is a tech I don´t want the AI to have, so I denied. They both declared. Japan is quite close, so I used our curragh to have an eye on them and buildt a wargalley, just in case.

Can't remember off the top of my head. Is quite close in range of us, or out of range of us? If they're out of range, no worries, if they're in range, we need to get the defenses up a bit more to guard against amphibious attacks. That war galley looks like a good early warning device.

I know it is next to a volcano, but I have never ever witnessed a volcano killing a city, so I don´t really care about them any more. If it gets destroyed I will wear a fools cap.

Ah well, if it happens, we'll try and get a screenie. Cross your fingers.

Our capitol is building slave trade. It helps all cities and we can easily afford the bad effects. However, it can still be changed to a water mill, or palace gardens without loss.

This should get changed immediately. Our biggest need is still expansion, in the 14 turns to get slave trade we can probably build 2 or 3 settlers, + some other units. Normally palace gardens is a high priority, for the tourism bonus, but commerce isn't as big in this game, so I'd probably switch to the water mill. cities can build their own slave markets if necessary, while we have so much other stuff to build, wonders should be a low priority.

roster:

Sanabas - on deck
namliaM
ThERat
Zorn - praying to the volcano gods
Beorn-El-Feared - playing

Remember, we may now only research Dark Ages. No other science allowed.
Circumventing rate caps is an exploit, please make sure lux% is high enough that we don't do it.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I have never ever witnessed a volcano killing a city, so I don´t really care about them any more. If it gets destroyed I will wear a fools cap.

I'm tailoring the cap as we speak. Got this by dinner.
I must admit, too, that I'll have to get a better hold at why is 0% research an exploit. I'll eventually find out. Playing as told, by the rules, until I realize what's up and keep playing by the rules, but with sense made out of it