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Savebreaking Changes. Mapmakers/modmodders update your scenarios/modmods for SVN 11132+.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by raxo2222, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Well all religious missionaries and beastmaster have female versions of it
     
  2. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    Technically it is not the same unit, it has the same function and stats, but it is defined as a separate unit. Every "loop through all unit infos" in code needs to loop through both the human and female variant as if they were not the same unit, so thus they are not the same unit.
    I did not say so, I voiced an opinion, not an intent.
     
  3. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    For very little benefit aside from declaring ourselves Social Justice conscious, which is applied strangely here since many religions most certainly do NOT see the roles of men and women as being equal.

    I respect that there are some who like them but I also know there are those who don't. Not because there's anything wrong with the concept but because its super trivial what they bring to the table and there's an unusually high cost in annoyance, memory, and processing that they exact in return. I know not everyone agrees. I actually didn't expect that Toffer would even keep them at all. If we get the opportunity to build which ones we WANT to build instead of the random difference popping up as you train them, it might be more tolerable imo. In fact, I can see how after the Ideas project is implemented, we may be able to inject some meaningful game effect differences, and that's where I tend to think that of the usefulness as crossing the line between a valid expenditure of memory and not.

    We're removing UnitClass for huge gains in memory space and turn time efficiency. Further, UnitClass was originally used for unique units which were indeed entirely different unit definitions that went beyond JUST flavor, though admittedly related. We removed animated leaderheads for similar reasons here.
     
  4. Snofru1

    Snofru1 Emperor

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    I would also prefer to have only one gender for the missionaries. I would be perfectly fine though to take out the male ones where female exist.
     
  5. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I'd prefer it be more strategic and based on the historical biases of that faith. Makes sense to have female druidic missionaries. Makes NO sense to have female Judaism missionaries - the whole religion is entirely patriarchal. Thus most would probably be patriarchal but those we could think wouldn't be we could keep the female ones for them? Still, if we want to see it as a 'what if' situation, then maybe you get to train one type if your civ has adopted a more patriarchal or matriarchal worldview through the ideas tracking could be cool.
     
  6. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    PLE used to allow you to select all missionaries in a stack, or all wheeled units, etc. I don't think it was kept up-to-date unfortunately.

    Also counting is not much of a problem as you are only allowed 5 missionaries for most religions.
     
  7. ssmage

    ssmage Warlord

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    You could just have 1 missionary unit in-game that has a two person group sprite with one male and one female if you want to keep the sprites but lose the extra unit code taking space.
     
  8. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    UnitClasses no longer exist on git master branch.
     
  9. Somebody613

    Somebody613 Prince

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    Speaking of religion.
    While hardly a high priority, but it would make MUCH more sense to rename the Jewish building line like this:
    Jewish Temple = Synagogue (no "Jewish", since no NON-Jewish Synagogues exist that I know of). A basic Jewish religious building that exists in every Jewish community. There's only ONE Jewish Temple (in Jerusalem) possible, though (which is weirding me out by having TWO Wonders with that name, which means you probably should switch the buildable one to reflect the SECOND Temple, or vice versa, make the Holy City one to be The Tabernacle).
    Jewish Monastery = Yeshiva (again, no NON-Jewish parallel names). A typical Jewish religious high school. Focuses on studies, hence the similar bonus.
    Jewish Synagogue = Rabbinical Seminary (obviously only Jewish). While this is a different context focus, it's still the "highest profile" Jewish institution besides the Temple.
     
  10. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

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    Some Jewish congregations call their place of worship a temple. Presumably they regard it as a temple, rather than a synagogue, otherwise why would they do that?

    Religions in the game have to be broad, to encompass all the manifestations of that religion, both now and historically.
     
  11. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

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    Judaism ordains female rabbis. You must be thinking of orthodox Judaism.
     
  12. Snofru1

    Snofru1 Emperor

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    That has been changed fortunately, in my last game all missionaries were unlimited (unlimited units in general were unchecked).
     
  13. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    The religion has grown more female inclusive since its origins.
     
  14. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

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    But then we are talking about missionaries who don't have to be 'ordained'. All a Jewish woman ever had to do to spread the religion was to have kids, since apparently they automatically belong to the religion and have no say in the matter (sounds ridiculous, but I think that view/definition goes back quite a long way).
     
  15. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    Indeed. The culture and values of the mother are more likely to make t to the next generation.
     
  16. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Maybe let Female variants if Matriarchy civic is enabled among other civic alternatives?
     
  17. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    An interesting thought that applies to tracking how ideas spread but I don't see missionaries as anything but arguing pundits for a religion basically.
     
  18. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Mod-modders and mapmakers, refer to first post when you are updating your mods and scenarios.
     
  19. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    @alberts2 ,

    If you have code that would help save compatibility then it should be added even if it does break saves again. Better to do as much now since new games are not long on play time yet. Just my 2 :commerce:.
     
  20. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    I did simple trick, that prevents starting game on outdated/incompatible scenarios.
    Scenarios, that are in mod are updated.

    So if you want to update your scenario look at first post - here is file with changed tags.
    You have to change "Version=11" line in scenarios to make it loadable.

    This doesn't affect ongoing games and generated maps.
     

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