sc:01 Moddern war

I'm starting to rethink my suggestion for national epic in Athens. My new idea is to put Globe and national park in Athens. The city would have no :mad: and no :yuck: . Plus it has the food potential to grow well over 30 pop (even more if we go with Sids sushi). We really don't have another good candidate for National park, at least one with plenty of forests.

Not sure where to put the National Epic with this new plan though.
 
Another builder set. My sign was badly placed for Silver City (Avaris) and it was built on that spot instead of 1 west where it would be coastal and still able to build 1 canal to provide passage. My Bad.

Thebes has Oxford ¼ built so I opt to build it there. Meanwhile, Taj goes to Elephantine. Hammy offers Guilds+map+80:gold: for DR.

Constitution is the free tech from Liberalism as planned. We still need Printing Press, but I'll let Elizabeth research that for us. For now, she accepts DR for Banking enabling me to research Economics, next.

We learn economics and I settle the free Great Merchant in Memphis. Elizabeth learns Printing Press and I get it for Education + 75:gold:, so now I start democracy.

I revolted to slavery + mercantilism.

Some more cities were built. There is a forested spot north of the capital that I marked with a sign. If we leave the vegetation untouched, we can build National Epic and National Park there, and it has 13 forests or jungles! Food can be brought in via the marble quarry from the lake near Memphis. We have another source of marble north of Athens that could be hooked up. Navajo has 3 food resources so we could build Globe there for a military whipping/drafting site.

Civ4ScreenShot0023-1.jpg



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playshogi said:
My sign was badly placed for Silver City (Avaris) and it was built on that spot instead of 1 west where it would be coastal and still able to build 1 canal to provide passage. My Bad.

Actually, it was my bad.

I qoute myself from post #176

I think that I'd move the southern ice city 1W so that it is coastal and can at least bring in some :gold: from trade routes.

I realized my mistake right after settling the city. If this were a SP game, I'd have reloaded. Oh well, the city is junk filler either way.

Edit: I like your plan for National park city, but I'd bring in the irrigation a different way. If we farm the forest tile NW of the lake then we can have freshwater access without losing the quarry. The forest isn't in any cities BFC so no loss there.
 
thoughts on where we're at.

We're first in production, gold and food. So we're setup well.

The golden age from the taj is due in 5 turns. What do we want to do with our golden age ?

We've got some unsettled space, do we want to put some cities in there to stop the AI getting a foot hold close to our continent ?

0c0a135f.jpg


There's some land in the north too, and a strip between ancestral Egyption and Greek lands .

Aztec is already close.
77045a54.jpg



At a guess, that's 7 or 8 new cities, most of them marginal or poor. Are we at a state where a new city is profitable as soon as it's setup yet ? I don't think we are. But the AI is going to fill up those gaps soon (just happened to me in a GoTM game. :( )


The tech rate is OK, but still needs some attention. 9 turns for astronomy, chemistry etc. I'd say we need to build up another couple of science cities with academy's etc. We don't have any academy's at all.
Elephantine might make a good 2nd science city. What do you think ?

14 workers and 19 cities, we've probably just got enough. What do you think ?
 
I wouldn't bother too much with settling the junk land. If the AI want islands with 0 food and lots of Ice/tundra, I say let them have it.

Finish settling the proposed city sites, most should be marked with signs. We can fill up the land between egypt and ex-Greece by planting a city on the river 1E of the iron (no time to make a screenshot, hope that is clear). I would also place a city 1NW of the marble north of Sparta, grabbing the marble and whale.

As for science, yes, we definately need to try to pop a G.scientist for an academy. 2 would be even better. IMO, our major science cities should be Thebes, Helio, and Athens (and Memphis).

For civics, I'd go with Representation - Free speech - Emancipation - Mercantilism - OR. Once our golden age kicks in, I predict our finances will skyrocket.
 
I agree with Madtown. Let the AI have the junk cities. Once, we get SoL built and put cottages everywhere, we'll have to gift tech to the AI so there is something worthy for our modern units to attack.
 
sc01-ts 8

No screen shots, something went wrong...


turn 0: preflight check .
Set the settler on goto to the city point near gold on the paninsula.
set thebes to have 5 scientists. Brings democracy down to 8, and a GP in 15.
Set sparta to two too for hopefully our 2nd GS probably in 30 or so turns.
Pull a xbow from Abydos to go to newcity too.

Turn 1: 1505AD
PiRam looks like a difficult town. Not much happening here until after biology I think. Set it to build a lib for a late sci contributor.

Bablos finished Moi. MM to grow fast. Set to build Granary. Then courthouse (8 gold !!)

Iron was found just north of Athens :-)
[pic]

Turn 2: 1510AD

We can setup a traid embargo if we want, but I don't think it's worth the -ve diplo points at this stage.

Doh !! We've lost the Taj by 3 turns to the frenchman !! We did get 876 gold from it, so I push up the research rate.

[pic]

Turn 3: 1515 AD
Charlemagne wants Divine Right. I tell him where to go.

Establish Edfu.

Turn 4: 1520AD
DeGaul offers up 124gold for banking. Yeh right. After you beat us to the taj we really need more money !

Turn 5: 1525AD
Set giza to build a barracks, cos it looks like a production headed city.

This looks like it may be an interesting looking trade. I'm sure Izy won't be too pleased [eg]

Turn 6: 1530AD
We found Pithorn.

Turn 7: 1535AD
Democracy is in.
So, what's the next tech.....
I go for gun powder, we may need some defence sooner or later, so best to have it in the bag I think.
Found Busiris and spread religion to it.

Turn 8: 1540AD

Doh, forgot to start SoL, but we can probably get some overflow if I do it right...



Turn 9: Gunpowder in.
Take Astronomy. For trade, and to head towards SciMethod to see if we have oil.
Somehow get 210 hammers in for turn1 of SoL. It will be in 26 turns.

Since we got Democracy, we can build Security Bureaus. I set these to build when I'm short of other ideas.

:smoke: I didn't switch civics either. I whip a couple of temples/courthouses then switch.



Turn 10: 1550AD
Charlemagne comes a calling again. Asking us to quit dealing with the french. CdG is pissed with us anyway, so I say yes.

I start the settler for the island city on his way, and there's a settler on goto for the last northern city.
There's a couple of troops on goto for city garrason duties.


Somehow, we're not last in power. Even though our units are 800 years out of date.

First in everything that matters, even if we're not popular..



I'm guessing we're trying to avoid building troops until we go industrial, but where will be we building them. We probably need to start tooling up our cities.

But which ones,
I'd guess at Thebes, Athens, Babylos and memphisis, and maybe PiRam.


I think we want corporation soon, get every city with a try to get the monistaries finished before SciMethod. We need to pick up a GPerson or two for corporations too, or do we say sod it on this, and go State property ?

We need more EPs to to see research.

Any other ideas?


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Shucks. Since we were still in slavery we probably could've whipped The Taj and beaten CdG. I wonder how he built it so fast considering Liz was the only one with Nationalism before we researched it. Oh well, whipping wonders is something I always forget about in my SP games too.

Another minor thing is that I probably would've settled Busiris 1E of the iron instead, giving it river access and better tiles to work. Not sure if you can build a canal with just a string of forts though.

Also, IMO you're a bit off on our production/troop centers. I'll run down the list the way I see things, and maybe you guys can comment.

(two designations means that the city is a hybrid; however, the first takes priority)

Thebes: commerce/production

Memphis: commerce/production
Holy shrine, nuff said.

Amsterdam: production
Although it may not look like it now, this city will be our #1 troop and ship builder. It already has the HE and will get West Point when availble.

Heliopolis: commerce

Elephantine: production

Navajo: production/specialist

Alexandria: production
We should build over the cottages with workshops here, IMO.

Athens: commerce/specialist

Sparta: production/specialist

Pi Ramesses: production, eventually...

Giza: production
This is our second major troop/ship city. Here we will put Ironworks and Red Cross. The city can be put on temporary wonder duty also.

Byblos: production
Moai statue city.

Ahketaten: production

Hieraconpolis: junk/production

Abydos: specialist/prod/commerce
This city has 2 food resouces but marginal land, all tiles are improved properly until we can put a lumbermill on the offshore island forest.

Asyut: junk/commerce

Avaris: complete and utter JUNK

Lihst: production
Build workshops on all of the plains tiles here. The two farms it has can support them + the desert mine.

Buto: production/specialist

Edfu: production/specialist

Pithom: GP farm
This city gets NP and NE.

Busiris: junk


Now, bear in mind that a production city may also generate nice amounts of commerce and vice versa. The point is that the tile improvements and build priority are geared toward one route or the other. Production cities get watermills, workshops and farms as needed and where appropriate. Commerce cities get cottages.

In most cases, when a city is designated "x/specialist", this means that due to food resources the city will always be food positive. Thus, we will eventually run specialists when the city grows to its max pop.

Lastly, at this point in the game absolutely no forests should be chopped unless it is absolutely necessary! The lumbermill production will be needed, particularily the gravy plains forests.

That's my take on our empire.

Edit: one more thing. Please stop the worker from farming our marble quarry near memphis and have hime farm 2 tiles north to spread irrigation. The forest he will remove is not in any city's BFC.
 
Sadly I'm still sitting around with waiting on Newegg parts to arrive. Been 3 weeks since I've played Civ I think.

You guys are doing great though, keep it up. :)
 
This is my got it, but won't be playing it till tomorrow afternoon. (actually probably today afternoon, because it's past midnight) Just finished up with NCSG1, and I've been swamped early this week.
 
Yes, don't farm over the quarry. I think the build order should be temple, granary, national epic.

Civ4ScreenShot0023-2.jpg
 
Shucks. Since we were still in slavery we probably could've whipped The Taj and beaten CdG. I wonder how he built it so fast considering Liz was the only one with Nationalism before we researched it. Oh well, whipping wonders is something I always forget about in my SP games too.

Yeh, I thought about going back and whipping, but that's hardly fair.

Another minor thing is that I probably would've settled Busiris 1E of the iron instead, giving it river access and better tiles to work. Not sure if you can build a canal with just a string of forts though.

Doh. I mixed up 1E and 1W.
I blame dyslexia. :mischief:

Edit: one more thing. Please stop the worker from farming our marble quarry near memphis and have hime farm 2 tiles north to spread irrigation. The forest he will remove is not in any city's BFC.

Ahh, that's me blindly following instructions !
 
1550AD (330):

Preflight check. First stop the worker at the quarry. Taking a look at Madtown's city specialization list. Looks good. Amsterdam needs some cottages cleared in favour of workshops, but I'll leave the two developed ones for now to help our economy, although our research rate is pretty awesome right now. Will clear out the cottages at Alexandria right now though. Athens has some farms that should ideally be cottaged now that we have Emancipation. Sparta needs to be retooled and have all those windmills knocked down in favour of mines, and the cottages need to be farmed over, but that's the only option because Alex goofed trying to make it commerce because it lacks the food to work massed cottages. Giza needs a single cottage replaced, but that's about it. Abydos is confusing due to the bad land, but I don't think we should be relying on it for commerce. I think we can workshop that cottage and get some decent, if not spectacular, production out of it. Avaris is, as said, complete junk, and I don't even think it will work as a canal. I've heard somewhere that canal cities need water access, but we'll see. Catch a citizen spec at Buto, so make him a priest because we have a temple.

I note that our economy is probably set to crash in 4 turns when the Colossus goes obsolete.

1555AD (331):

A bunch of our cities get border pops, and Liz gets a Great Prophet. Also see that Monty's city near us also popped.

Notice that a missionary finished, so I hit the religious advisor, and he tells me that all our cities have Islam in them already. Ok, so I guess this is strictly for sending out to our rivals. Load him on the nearby caravel.

Also note 2 settlers in Navajo, and nothing worthwhile for them to do. One goes for the northern city site. The other guy gets fortified because any other city we settle is junk.

Note that the cottage was just built (?) at Abydos. Whatever, that city is not really important, so workers head north for Sparta to fix the place.

Thebes finished it's missionary, and I notice it lacks a market while making 40 gpt at 30% commerce, so dial one up.

Memphis is done it's theatre, and there is nothing much worthwhile, so I dial up a security bureau. Laugh at the modern looking building in 1555AD.

Theatre done in Athens, and it's missing a monument, but it goes obsolete in 3 turns, so who cares. City is commerce heavy, so I dial up a bank. It will want a university and a grocer, but +50% wins when we're about to crap out in 3 turns.

Byblos finished the courthouse to save us some cash. However, the city is growing fast and will get pissed in two growths, also does not have great health. Dial up a forge, because the place has plenty of food, but will need to watch it.

Amsterdam is about to finish another Islamic Missionary, which is not really necessary. It also has an almost finished Trireme in the queue after it, which will be worthless in 3 turns. Hopefully it changes. Stick in a security bureau.

1560AD (332):

Liz uses the prophet to FINALLY build the Temple of Solomon.

Note that we wanted Edfu for production, but instead of building a farm on the corn, we built a cottage. Go and build that farm this turn.

Realize around now that the sleeping workboat in Navajo should've been shadowing the Galley going to the ice island.

1565AD (333):

Athens pays its maintenance for itself this turn, and De Gaulle changes to Nationhood, Mercantilism and Theocracy. Scary stuff. Babylon also gets a Great Prophet.

Found Kahun on the marked spot in the north.

Spoiler :
set8kahun.jpg


Helio finished the grocer and now lacks stuff to do so it dials up a security bureau.

Kahun goes for a granary first.

1570AD (334):

Astro comes in and we drop from +7 gpt to -12 gpt. Not actually as bad as I anticipated.

We also get the Harbormaster Quest.

Spoiler :
set8harbormasterstart.jpg


Unsure if this means newly built from now on, or existing. We already have 4 caravels, so I'll see if we can build a few more harbors.

Navajo is done building... something... I dial up an observatory, because it will probably never need an aqueduct.

Abydos Lighthouse is done, I can dial a 9 turn forge or go for a 5 turn harbor. Let's try to help the quest with the harbor, since this city is pretty junky anyways.

Ok, with Astro in, we have some choices. Corporation will obsolete the Great Lighthouse in 3 turns, so we don't want that yet. Scientific Method nukes the Great Library and all our monasteries, while making us fail our quest too. Military tradition is out there already and not particularly pressing either, because we aren't looking to war with that kind of stuff. So it's either parts or chemistry. Chem boosts our workshops, while parts unlocks lumbermills, and boosts our watermills (and those junky windmills that are getting replaced at Sparta), so Parts wins.

1575AD (335):

Thebes pops a Great Scientist, which is expected. He can bulb method (no), or he can send Thebes' skyrocketing beakers even higher with an Academy. Make the Academy and the beakers jump by around 40 in Thebes. Sweet.

Found junk city Athribis on Alex's exile colony island.

Spoiler :
set8athribis.jpg


Sparta's grocer is done. Science is good, so dial up an observatory.

Pi-Ramesses finished... a university, despite crappy commerce. I must've been :smoke: to have missed this one. Ok, go for a harbor.

Athribis is pretty awful, so I go for a lighthouse first. I think the Whales should bring us some hammers once the border pops.

1580AD (336):

We get the parrots special event in one of Pithom's jungles.

Spoiler :
set8parrots.jpg


AP let's us cause some mayhem. We can order a boycott of Hammurabi or Darius. Heheh.

Spoiler :
set8apvote.jpg


Choose Hammurabi because he is third, and Darius probably will get dogpiled later. Vote yes, and since we have 418 votes, SOMEONE is about to get screwed by the AP :P

Missionary makes it to Persia. We may or may not want to use him on a city, because I've just realized, thanks to the boycott vote, that we can do nasty things to people who can't vote in the AP.

Alexandria university is done, but it's at its health limit, so dial up an aqueduct.

1585AD (337):

Awesome.

Spoiler :
set8boycott.jpg


Akhetaten is done its Temple (I think?), so goes for a cheap 3 turn harbor.

Hieraconopolis is done a monastery, but is basically junk. A forge will help it's ailing production.

Asyut also done a monastery, but still needs a lighthouse.

Busiris is hilariously bad, with 8 workable tiles in its fat cross (6 if you give overlap to other cities). Slow growing, so start a granary which will be done ages before this thing grows.

1590AD (338):

Replaceable Parts done this turn. Chem for the workshop bonus is keen, and cheaper than Rifling, so it wins. Should probably take Rifling next though.

So the forts at Avaris finished this turn and confirmed that the city needs coastal access. So Avaris is even junkier than before. Send the workers to build a fort between the two silvers, because that should work.

Memphis security bureau is done. It will get the chop from the forest clearing in about 6 turns. I dials a 4 turn jail for extra espionage (jails are the next security bureaus!).

1595AD (339):

Abydos finishes it's harbor and our quest.

Spoiler :
set8harbormasterfinish.jpg


We get our choice of bonus, and it's either combat 1 to all naval units, navigation 1 to all naval units, or all harbors getting +1 gpt. Free combat 1 is tempting, but really doesn't compare to the cash, so I go for that. Time for more harbor spam.

Another random event that gives us no choice nukes a cottage north of Memphis.

Spoiler :
set8tornados.jpg


I was probably going to farm that cottage anyways, so whatever.

Junk ice island city got it's border pop this turn, so we net the whales. So, this city will forever and always be a two hammer city >.<

Forge done at Byblos, order a harbor to keep up with the health.

Abydos starts on... uh... A forge.

1600AD (340):

Wow, our income jumped from 2gpt to 25 this turn. From the sidebar, we finished a grocer, a bank, and two harbors. Money!!!

Ok, the Grocer was in Thebes, where commerce is awesome, so do the logical thing and dial up an observatory. The bank came into Athens, which also goes for an observatory. Pi-Ramesses was one harbor, but it has bad commerce, so nothing is pressing. It's also growing slow, so happiness is not pressing either. Dial up a barracks. Last harbor at Akhetaten, which is also not great on the commerce front, but this time is growing decently, and will need some health soon, so a grocer is on the way.

Chem is due next turn, and we can see inside of two of Liz's cities, due to high EPs. Should probably send a spy over there and try and lift Military Tradition. Liz is offering Scientific Method, but at a bad rate.

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good set again.

The missionaries were for the new cities.

Sorry for the :smoke: city that can't even be a canal. Oh well. Personally, I'd have gone for navigation or something from the harbour quest, but I'm interested in other's views.
 
I built the windmills around Sparta. I thought the additional food and commerce was well worth the sacrifice of 1 hammer (after replaceable parts) even if it is designated a production city.

I always go for the gold in the harbor quest. All new harbors get the gold, too, until an Industrial Age tech is learned.
 
I built the windmills around Sparta. I thought the additional food and commerce was well worth the sacrifice of 1 hammer (after replaceable parts) even if it is designated a production city.

I always go for the gold in the harbor quest. All new harbors get the gold, too, until an Industrial Age tech is learned.

Whoops. I automatically assumed that the windmills were Alex's doing. I've only mined over one so that can be aborted and restored pretty quickly. I do think we should stick with mines though, because Biology is on its way after scientific method, so the farms up there will be that much more effective, and allow us to run some more tiles that aren't food neutral. Also, mines can be railroaded, and I don't think windmills can (although railroads are still a ways away).

EDIT: And I thought it was permanent gold to your harbors. Isn't the industrial age tech only a stipulation for finishing the quest?
 
The gold is permanent for the harbors already built. The question is whether new harbors get the gold.
 
Got it.

I wont be able to play until Sunday evening (US central time), so playshogi, if you want to swap and you can play and report before then... by all means.
 
1600 AD (IHT):

Remove some scientists from Thebes. Sparta will pop one much faster (10 turns).

1605 AD:

Chemistry comes in and I choose steel as next tech for IW and drydocks. The security of our empire will require a strong navy.

I&#8217;m not going to list all of the builds anymore. I started cranking out privateers because many AI do not yet have astro, and the few that do lack gunpowder. If we strike quickly, we can destroy the world&#8217;s seafood and blockade a significant number of trading routes for some time. Hammurabi in particular is ripe for the picking, with several seafood dependant island and coast cities.

1610 AD:

Harbors finish around the empire and they all have +1 :gold:

Harbors.jpg


Spread Islam to Persepolis with a missionary.

1615 AD:

Charlemagne declares war on Darius I.

CharleyDOW.jpg


We&#8217;ve been playing buddy with both of these guys, so I&#8217;m not sure how to feel. I expect to be asked to stop trades or join the war by one or both of them soon.

1620 AD:

And it starts&#8230;.

DariusEmbargo.jpg


I say no. Our trade routes are too valuable. Also, Charley is more of a threat to us being on the near side of his continent. Better to keep him happy until we get a navy established.

I found Mendes NW of the marble in former Greece. The city claims whales for us too, but it&#8217;s mostly just for blocking the AI (who will probably still settle in the icy beaver region).

Mendes.jpg


1625 AD: nada

1630 AD:

LizDemocracy.jpg


Liz wants democracy for free. I laugh heartily and give her a nice smack on the a$$ as she walks out empty handed.

We finish steel this turn and I go for scientific method next. It does obsolete the G.library, but we will pop a GP from Sparta the same turn, 90% probability of a scientist. Next tech should be physics for the free scientist, then communism for the free spy.

I begin constructing drydocks in many coastal cities. I also start IW in Giza.

We need more workers. Lumbermills and workshops are needed everywhere, railroads in the near future.

1635 AD: nada

1640 AD:

Darius I is spreading Islam for us.


1645:

Our privateers see their first action, sinking an Aztec caravel.

Privateershots.jpg


Privateerwins.jpg


1650 AD:

Scientific method comes in and we take a hit to research and gold. It had to happen eventually. Research set on Physics (8 turns). We have no less than 4 oil deposits in our territory. Hammurabi, Darius, and Izzy have none. De Gaul, Liz, Charley, and Monty have some. There is one unclaimed source on the junk silver island to our south. I think we should put a city there just for denial purposes. Also, the 1 tile plains hill island should probably get a city as well, at least it has a fish.

Junkyislands.jpg


We get a grocer event in Thebes, bringing +1 food to the city.

Grocerevent.jpg



That&#8217;s the end of my reign. I think we should keep pumping out privateers from the cities that have drydocks, at least until we start seeing enemy frigates. Until then, patrol the coasts and pillage all seafood. Once the food is gone, try to find choice blockade positions that cover 2-3 cities at once. Lastly, make sure to always pair up privateers before sending them out of our borders.

A GP will pop next turn in Sparta, 89% scientist. We should send him to Thebes to construct an academy.

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