sc:01 Moddern war

[Madtown]

Pretty boring turnset. Sorry, no pretty pics this time (nothing worth seeing).

Most notable occurance was that Alex converted to Islam on turn 141. Hopefully we can get him up to pleased before he tries anything with his phalanxes. Also, ToA was BIFAL, I forgot to note when exactly

Other than that, I built some farms and MM'd to encourage growth. I also hooked up the fishes at Memphis and a second workboat is nearly complete in Elephantine.

Research is back up to 40% in the green and we should be able to whip the courthouses in Helio and Elephantine shortly. IW due in 1 turn.

We also have a Great Scientist coming from Thebes in 3 or 4 turns. Not sure what we should do with him. Probably build an academy, but where? Memphis is a holy city, but lacks other commerce. Thebes, Amsterdam, and Helio will all be strong cottage cities, but are subpar at the moment.

Once the Scientist pops, we should consider running preists at Amsterdam in order to get a GP for Theo bulb. I'd really like to see another religion in either Amsterdam or Helio. Don't forget folks, we'll need a lot of commerce generators in order to wage the intercontinental wars we have planned. Two holy cities would help.

I also built 2 axes with 3 more on the way shorlty. IMO, we should use them + our chariots to take Navajo before Alex does. I think we will be able to handle the maintenance now, especially as we remove more jungle and cities become more productive. Navajo, with its 3 food resources, would be a whippers delight, and could have a courthouse and other infra up quickly. Plus I'd hate to leave it for Alex to benefit on.

Finally, 10 turns during peace feels really short this early in the game. Perhaps we should go with 15 peace/ 10 war, until the modern era when turns go slower. Just a thought.

Rooster:
1: Simon_c
2: S.ilver
3: Madtown <-- Just Played
4: playshogi **Up Now**
5: tiberion02 <-- On Deck

 

[playshogi]

I decided to postpone the decision of the GS by putting the scientists to work and let Amsterdam generate the first GP. Iron Working is discovered and we have 2 sources. 1 in Thebes and 1 in Heliopolis. Research is meditation so that I can pop theology with my Great Prophet (81%+ chance).

Of course, we get the engineer! That's a bad break, since with stone and marble we can build any Great Wonder we want.

T155 - Taoism is FIDL.

You're right there is not much happening in these peaceful turns to talk about. I'd prefer to stick to 10 turns/set, though. I built up our cash balance while researching Meditation. The GE is parked in Amsterdam, let's not forget about him. I propose we save him for the AP. Our workers, I put to work building farms on the various sugar we have, or in 1 case, a cottage. It's no use letting that extra food lie fallow just because we can't build plantations. 1 worker is building a farm in Amsterdam because that was going to be our GP farm. I stop my turns with research started on Theology. As I have it set up right now, we can research it in 14 turns at 40% science. We are losing 2pt, but with citizen growth in Amsterdam and Memphis, that should be up to at least break even next turn. I think we can get a 2nd religion, hopefully, in Memphis by staying this course, and instantly build AP somewhere (Amsterdam?). Our next GP, comes from Amsterdam in 21 turns and should be a Great Prophet enabling us to build the Islamic shrine. After theology, we can go Aesthetics and Literature, and build the Great Library. I don't think we are in any danger of losing this key wonder by detouring with Theology. I once played a game where the goal was to build as many wonders as possible on monarch and I built 33 out of 34 and several people built all 34. That's how I know these wonders won't be built too quickly. I think the AP would be built before GL, that's why we need to use the GE on that wonder.

I did build a few military units, with more in the queue, so our power compared to Alex is about 75% of Alex. I think attacks are more likely when power is less than 50%, so we are OK there. I moved units in the direction of Navajo, but I don't think we really need to capture this city just yet. I'd prefer to at least be able to sustain 50% research rate or get 2nd religion, AP and Great Library. Plus, if we hem in Alex too quickly we'll have to fight him sooner. I'd rather build up our economy and get those 2 key wonders before dealing with Alex.

 

[playshogi]

...and the save.....

Roster:
1: Simon_c **UP NOW **
2: S.ilver
3: Madtown
4: playshogi --just played--
5: tiberion02 **SKIP**

I just thought about something: with this silly 'pick religion' option, we really don't know if the religon discovered was the Theology one or the Philosophy one. In any case, we really ought to aim for the AP, ASAP.

 

[Madtown]

T155 - Taoism is FIDL.

Doesn't this mean that the religion from Theology is now taken?!? I highly doubt any AI has hit philo...

If the religion is gone, the tech loses much of it's value. Now it is only worthwhile when were ready to build up troops to conquer Alex (theocracy civic). Which probably won't happen until we get maces, x-bows, and cats.

Considering we're relatively isolated, the AP has much less value as well. The only one who will share our religion for awhile will be Alex.

Tough break on the engineer, although I don't think I'll ever be unhappy with GE's.

I say we forget Theology for now and go for calendar, aesthetics, and literature. Then we should probably go compass --> optics to get caravels out and try to nab the circumnav bonus. That could be quite useful later on...

If we can, lets try to build the mausoleum so that we can have supercharged GA's. Follow that with the G.library.

Edit: Crap, just looked at the save and Alex has a settler near the blue site on the eastern coast. I doubt he will settle where we intended so that means one more city we'll have to raze and resettle. Lets get some troops to Navajo and capture it before he does!!!

 

[playshogi]

Philosophy can be had from a GS, we could do it right now if we had mathematics which most AI get early. I still think the religion from theology is available, but even if not, the AP will be worth going for Theology. I'm only thinking about the AP in terms of the 2 hammers for each temple, monastery, cathedral and shrine. That's almost like having Mining Corp. The AP is also important for denial, since we're unlikely to get the AP religion from them. I'd rather not be dogpiled, or worse, lose the game because of religious diplo defeat. (As soon as we were to capture a city with the AI AP religion, we could be vulnerable).

 

[Simon_c]

I've not looked at the save, so I won't comment on war options yet, but I'm actually happier to get theology now the religion seems to have gone.
With that and the enginear building the AP, we can build cheep temples giving us happy and 2

 

[tiberion02]

I think I'm gonna have to drop out of this game for the time being. My Hard drive died on me today and it'll take at least a few days to get in replaced. I'm very sorry.

Had to post this from my brother's Archos player, its pretty awesome though.

 

[Simon_c]

I think I'm gonna have to drop out of this game for the time being. My Hard drive died on me today and it'll take at least a few days to get in replaced. I'm very sorry.

Had to post this from my brother's Archos player, its pretty awesome though.

No worries. I'll stick you on perm-a-skip. Let us know if you

This is an (untested) got it.

I'll play tonight.

 

[Simon_c]

Plans: pop theo. build shrine maybe.
take Navajo and block alex with blue dot.

Looking at the relegions.
Tao: 290BC
Abu Bakr born in 700BC.
So, it looks like the AI popped theo. I just hope it's an AI who didn't have a relegion

Turn 0 (preflight) 161/750 200BC.

I see we're going to do theo the hard ware. I guess that's the right decision because we got a GE. it's 7 turn quicker than popping it and gives us a (hopefull) GP for a shrine. Still not convinced. We've many more techs to trade and no partner. (I'm sure the fishing trade was one Alex decided to do when he knew the Dutch, but couldn't actually do it until we had alphabet.

We're 1 turn of a swordsman. personally, I'd have focused on axes for now, but never mind.

I don't think I would have done elephantine either, but it's a good produciton city, even at 3.

I've kept the swordsman in the queue at Thebes, and slotted an axe infront. if we can keep them in the queue until theo, then we'll get an extra two XP. Alex is pleased with us now, so we may just avoid war for a while longer. (Cats and maces we want) Even phants will only be 50/50 against phalanx.

Also MM heliopolis to work the mined hill not the 2nd sugar. That way the courthouse will finish quicker.

Humm. Here's the plan for the next 10 turns.
We'll get theo with a GP, and research maths and construction for cats. that at least will give us some good defense. Once cities have courthouses, we'll get axes. and cats when we have construction.

Here goes.

Turn 1 185BC
Humm. what do to with workers. What's their priority right now. Set one worker to get rid of more jungle around Heliopolis.


Looking at the dot map, it would be nice to get Navajo and pop it's borders before alex gets around orange dot. I'm not sure we will though. We do need to found blue dot ASAP though, cos that's here alex will head for next. crashing economy or not !

Swapped the build queues at Amsterdam and memphis to build courthouse and not to finish the axes. No point in building swords, and we need to reduce maintence. A unit in the queue is a unit we're not paying for. alex won't attack until he's boxed in.

Turn 2 170BC
A worker just finished a farm in Amsterdam. Not sure why we're building farms there. Anyone know ?
Anyway, more improved land in amsterdam than we have ppl working it (cos of 3 Priests.) so I send him over to elephantine to help there.

turn 3 155BC

Mind grass hill outside of elephantine.
build camp on phants south of Helopolis.

turn 4 140BC
Axes arrive at Navajo.

and it falls with the loss of one.

Spoiler :

We get 119 gold, which should keep us going for a while. Interestingly we're offered to &#8220;return&#8221; it to the greek empire. Yeh, right.

It's out of revolt in 4 tuns. I want to get a worker or two there to start chopping the courthouse out as soon as it's there. the ones from the helopolis sugar cat get there in 3 so I let them finish chopping the jungle.

We can whip the courthouse at Helo, it can regrow quickly so I do.

turn 5 125BC (166/750)
Helio to build granary. for faster growth.

Navajo still wants to be greek.

Spoiler :

Er, let me think.

no.

I send one of the axes from Navajo to blue dot. And leave 2 axes and one chariot. We probably will need more up three.

finish the mine at elephantine. start clearing jungle.
move workers up to Navajo.

Turn 6: 110Bc

clear some jungle on the phants south of helio. then I think the workers should road up to blue dot, then to Navajo. (clear jungle 2W of blue dot first. ?)

turn 7: 95BC
Yey. We can do summs. !

Spoiler :

OK. I think we can slip one more tech in before needing construction for war. So how about Currency. It will help out economy

turn 8 80BC
set elephantine to build granary to grow quicker.
Setler finishes at thebes. We probably need more workers now too.

MM helio to produce granary before growing.
workers chop for law and order at Navajo


turn 9: 65BC
Put workboat in queue in memphis for blue dot.

turn 10: 50 BC
put amsterdam on to workboat too for Navajo once it gets a border pop. (should have done so sooner)


Hopefully fewer s in this one...

So, summary.

There's a settler going to blue dot.
the queues are loaded up waiting for us to pop theo in 11 turns, or for alex to get to frisky.
If we're stuck on units to build, build a couple of mintionaries. blue dot and navajo will need it to defend against greek cultures.
We need to road up Navajo and blue dot too.
Fingers crossed for a priest in 11 turns time..

Some time soon we need to head towards macemen to take down Alex. It will take some time to do that though. We need lots more cottages.... Unless we're going more SE for a while...

EDIT: Helio needs to be MMd so that it grows the turn after the granary is in

 

[Simon_c]

here's the save and roster.


Roster:
1: Simon_c <--- Just played
2: S.ilver **UP NOW **
3: Madtown <--- On deck.
4: playshogi
5: tiberion02 >>Skip<<

 

[S.ilver]

I've got it, but I won't be able to play it tomorrow (going out for dinner for my birthday tomorrow). Will play on Friday, and let some discussion drop in.

 

[Madtown]

We may want to hire more preists in Amsterdam if possible, just to try to bump up the probability a bit more. Right now, were at 21% GE still, IIRC.

For next techs, I think we should grab construction for phants and cats, followed by metal casting for forges. After that, I think we need to make a run towards G.Library before someone else does.

It would be nice to slip in calendar too, for the sugar and the Mausoleum.

 

[S.ilver]

50BC (170):

Preflight check. Not sure what the logic of the workboat in Memphis is. Yes, blue dot will need a workboat. However, a rough eyeballing says that it will take around 15 turns for the 2 move workboat to get around the peninsula O.o. There could also be barb galleys around to kill it. However, blue dot will have pretty bad production for a while, so I'll honour the idea...

We've also stopped building units, while we've got 1 defender in every city except Navajo. Those defenders aren't exactly adequete either, being War Chariots and Warriors. Will work on remedying that situation as well.

I also notice we could be running no deficit if we had courthouses in Amsterdam and Memphis. Something to think about...

35BC (171):

Workers at Navajo work on a mine and pasturing those pigs. Settler moving towards blue dot. (seems to be 1S of the original point, stupid Alex)

20BC (172):

Nada. Workers working. Notice Alex is starting his road down to Pharsalos.

5BC (173):

Jungle chop is done at Heliopolis. Build the camp for the extra hammer.

Alexandria founded south of Pharsalos (oh the irony!)

Spoiler :

Starts on courts. Will switch to the elephant tile when the camp is done.

10AD (174):

Workboat done in Memphis, it wants to finish the sword (uh, no). I switch it for the Axe (done in one). Ok, so Workboat is en route to Alexandria and will be able to build nets in 14 turns.

Pharsalos is full of Spearmen! Means we will definitely need maces (or maybe crossbows will work too).

Spoiler :

25AD (175):

A bunch of stuff happened in the interturn. We got a free spread of Islam to Heliopolis. The Church of Nativity was also built far away.

Ok, the Axe finished in Memphis, wants to build the Sword again, so I start on an 11 turn Courthouse to work on that ugly -5 maintenance. Axe fortifies unpromoted.

There is a worker done this turn in Thebes and IT also wants to finish its swordsman. Look at its production options. 23 turn courthouse saves us just a bit over 1 gold, naw. It hits its happy cap in 9 turns, and is already at its health cap. Start a Granary, it will give 1 health now, and another when I connect the neglected wheat in the corner of Thebes cultural influence. Seems like a good thing for the worker to do. Be sure to slot in a cheap temple after it grows.

Navajo's mine was done this turn, so work it immediately to shave 3 turns off the courthouse.

Elephantine also gained a pop this turn, so set it on a mine rather than trying to work a forest.

Camp is ALSO done this turn so add an extra 2 hammers per turn to Alexandria for a still painful 60 turn courthouse.

Alex also has a settler party going... somewhere. Luckily Navajo's border pops next turn to stop a bit of land poaching.

Spoiler :

40AD (176):

Ok, WTH? Alex comes to us and wants to trade monarchy and 10 gold for CoL. We don't WANT Alex to get courthouses this fast because that would lead to a better tech rate for him, and Monarchy does nothing for us because we have no wine and we have the mids. Still, monarchy leads to feudalism, and we will want that eventually. I mess with the offer and substitute in Alphabet and Agriculture. He takes it.

Spoiler :

Currency comes in and we are losing gold at 2 less per turn.

Alex also clearly just finished researching Monarchy, because he immediately switches to Hereditary Rule.

Civ crashes on me O.o. I've never had that happen before, even with the unstable original release. And I didn't save O.o. Luckily there is an autosave from this turn. Load it and redo the trade with Alex.

Ok, let me investigate this apparent gain of only 2gpt thanks to currency. Looking in all our cities reveals that we are trading with ourselves. We don't have a trade route to Alex, because we were smart and decided that Sailing is beneath us. I'm going to gamble on saving some money, and put 3 turns into sailing.

Workers move to clear the hills around Alexandria of Jungle, so they can be mined to get that city on its feet.

Granary is done in Heliopolis. It has limited production potential but can make lots of food if we farm all over the place (replace with plantations later). Since we seem to have inadvertently run into running a specialist economy, I'll dial up a library so we can run some scientist specs there.

55AD (177):

We gain a forest near Thebes. Not in the FC though, so it's just good for extra chopping.

Elephantine finished its granary this turn. This town has some serious production potential, with 3 uncontested hills, a gold hill, and a copper. Putting it on a barracks.

70AD (178):

>.< A barb galley appears out of nowhere, ready to pillage Memphis' fish net next turn.

Spoiler :

Alex apparently wasted his Great Merchant on Navajo, getting about 100 gold (LOL). His settler party also founds Ephesus, which looks like its going to be gimped.

Spoiler :

Amsterdam's workboat for Navajo was done this turn. It wants to finish its military units, but it's BLEEDING more than 6 maintenance. Start a courthouse, but it'll take 26 turns. For some reason mousing of the GPP bar isn't giving me a popup, so I don't know how much longer it will take. I THINK the GP will pop on Madtown's first turn, but I don't remember for sure. After that happens though, either whip the courthouse, or fire all the priests and get them to the high production squares to get this courthouse done.

85AD (179):

Sailing comes in, and our costs drop by 7gpt. Amsterdam, Heliopolis, Memphis, and Thebes are now using both their trade routes with the Greeks for 2gpt, rather than trading with our own cities for 1gpt (each route).

As expected, the barb galley pillages Memphis' net, setting it into stagnation. Looks like sailing is ALSO useful to protect our nets from being pillaged.

Set tech for construction.

100AD (180):

Mines finish at Elephantine, and a worker takes off towards the heavily jungled area that needs to be cleared. I think we also got a border pop at Memphis (which gives us some pretty crazy LoS, we can see on the other side of the peninsula).

Will post strategic commentary in a separate post.

Roster (Yes! I remembered!)
1: Simon_c
2: S.ilver <--- Just Played
3: Madtown **UP NOW **
4: playshogi <--- On Deck
5: tiberion02 >>Skip<<

 

[S.ilver]

Right, we've got 4 cities working on courthouses right now to combat our perpetual cash bleeding. 2 of them happen to be our bigger cities, so we probably should've had courthouses in them earlier, although I will concede there were probably more pressing priorities.

Mass farming around Amsterdam has its uses. The city has 3 hills (although may be sharing one with Elephantine), and 2 high production resources, but only 1 food resource. Farming will let us take advantage of this production, and will give us some slack space to run more specs too. We also need to chain farm from Amsterdam to get to Elephantine anyways (which needs the food).

Once we get theo, I'd use the engineer on AP to ensure we get it, while spamming monasteries in our big cities (which will benefit because their specs are making beakers anyways).

 

[Madtown]

Good set S.ilver. Checked the save and the GP will pop next turn, probability 82% prophet. <crosses fingers>

What do people think about MC for next tech? Forges will help our production considerably, and will help speed up any upcoming wonders (besides the AP). Speaking of which, what ones do we want to go for? Parthenon, Shwed. paya, Mausoleum, Angor Wat, Hagia Sophia, and Colossus are all still up for grabs (might be a bit late for colossus though). We could easily build any two of those in Thebes and Amsterdam.

I think given that we have the mids and representation, we would be fools not to go with a hybrid economy(which we are pretty much doing anyways). I'll try to get things going in that direction. I'll continue to build cottages on riversides and clear jungles, but will assign specialists and build some farms where appropriate. I'll try to get a couple more axes out also.



Got it. Will play tonight if there's enough response.

 

[S.ilver]

MC -> Machinery needed for Crossbows and Maces anyways. The question is whether that is a priority, or if the GL is the priority. I've never been big on specialists, but I'm starting to see their uses this game (we'd be dead without them).

If we head straight for literature, we'll need Aesthetics on the way, which enables 3 wonders, which all are sped up by different resources, which we happen to all have . The Shwedagon whatever gives us all religious Civics, but will we need Pacifism and Free Religion? (the only ones we'll be missing after we bulb Theo) I'd think we'd be sticking with Theocracy or Organized. But I think SoZ is very important to our strategy, as we want to make the AI SUFFER in its later wars with us. And I'm pretty sure we basically have a monopoly on Ivory .

If we get metal casting first, we can set up forges and then go over to Lit, so we'll have them in place for building GL and SoZ. It seems like a plan. Forges also give us an extra happy thanks to gold.

 

[playshogi]

I think we should focus on military techs. Since we blocked Alex, we should expect war sooner rather than later. Construction or metal casting ought to be next, we could burn a GE on metal casting, if we get another one. With MC we could build a tireme to explore/defend. Maybe, a galley right now, might be beneficial because there might be another AI nearby.

As far as wonders, Angkor Wat is nice, if we focus on priest specialists, also, Univ. of Sankalore, and Spiral Minaret, for a totally state religion focused game would be cool, assuming the AP, of course.

 

[Simon_c]

I agree with war preps. We need cats, and if we want more than 50/50 odds, we need macemen against Alex's phalanx. Or we can try to out-produce him and see who would win a war of attrition. I think we should tech fast and then build the maces.

 

[Madtown]

IHT: MM Helio to work sugar farm in order to speed growth, library still finishes in 2.


Turn 181: Shankara (GP) was born in Amsterdam.

I use him to bulb theology, then use the GE to rush the AP. Since there was no discussion on where to put it, I built it in Amsterdam.

Turn 182: Helio finishes library, starts a barracks (8T).
Elephantine completes barracks, starts a spearman because Alex has a few chariots running around. We need to keep an eye out for him trying to slip a settler through our borders.

Send the preists at Amsterdam back to work. The city will grow in 1 turn, so I hold off on whipping it.

Whip the courthouse at Memphis for 2 pop, overflow will go into the temple.

WB arrives at Navajo, nets some fishies.

I notice that the Iron at Thebes is not hooked up yet, while the worker there is roading to some wheat I also que a market in ahead of the sword. The swordsman has 2 turns left and can be finished later. Besides, if Alex doesn’t attack us first, then we will be using maces not swords.

AP election, I vote for Alex. He seems like a coold dude...

Only kidding. Just wanted to make sure you were paying attention.

Turn 183: Whip courthouse in Amsterdam, overflow into barracks.

Turn 184: Memphis completes Temple, starts a galley.

Turn 185: Whip courthouse in Navajo, overflow into barracks.

Turn 187: Elephantine finishes spearman, starts missionary (5 turns). Spear is sent on GOTO to Navajo. Workboat arrives at Alexandria, begins plundering the clams&#8230;

Turn 188: Memphis finishes a galley, starts a missionary. I leave the galley in port, until we finish a second one to take out the barb.

Turn 189: Amsterdam completes barracks, starts on a spy. Also, the Hanging Gardens are BIFAL.

Turn 190: Helio finishes a barracks, starts a catapult.
Construction is in and research set on MC.


Note to payshogi. Don’t let any units finish building yet unless you feel they are needed to deter Alex from attacking. Just fill up the ques with 1 turn builds and hopefully we can hold off on the unit spam until we get maces. I have not switched to theocracy yet.

Rooster:
1: Simon_c <--- On Deck
2: S.ilver
3: Madtown <--- Just Played
4: playshogi ***UP NOW***
5: tiberion02 >>Skip<<

 

[S.ilver]

I KNEW I forgot about something by Thebes. That must be my worst one yet, trying to connect a wheat before mining an iron