Scenario Project: The Persian Empire

[LouLong]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
hmm alot of replies since my last post. Im gonna answer them tomorrow, for know I just want to say this project might get delayed a bit, as some very interesting things just happened to me this day

You mean.... your mother gave you a kiss on the cheek
More seriously, enjoy !
I have never been with a Danish girl but I guess it could be "worst"

 

[Louis XXIV]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
Nitpick: The Rise of Rome Conquest starts in 350 BC, when the Achaemenid Empire was very much still around.

Why does it start in 350?

At this time, Rome had good relations with Carthage, hadn't conquered Italy, and definately didn't own Messina.

The first Punic War begins in 264, which makes much more sense for a start date of the scenario.

I read that Parthia set up an independent kingdom in 250BC, which isn't too far off (I'm planning to give them everything from Ctesiphon to the Eastern edge of the map, but have a lot of units to take poorly defended Seleucid cities).

 

[The Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Louis XXIV


Why does it start in 350?

Who am I to know?

More helpfully, the Firaxians obviously aren't obsessively concerned with historical realism in the Conquests. And since the typical customer is rather clueless about ancient history, I can well see why they feel no need to be.

But don't let that disuade you from making a more accurate version! I'd love to see it.

 

[jonatas]

map link for Indus Valley cities:

http://www.harappa.com/har/harsites3.html

there's also some info on each city mentioned. It says in the text that Indus Valley civ was also called Harappan civ, after its main city.
hope it's useful

 

[Punkymonkey]

Yoda,

First off, there should be no mention of Indus Valley civs at this time because they disappeared around 1400-1200BC. So don't worry about that mess. Just put the Indian civ as the kingdom of Punjab as that is where Alexander came into contact with the indians and where he was stopped. The whole indus area was controlled by them at this time. I'll try to dig up a map of the kingdom. The Mauryans came late into the picture comparatively and if you have a large enough map maybe you can make them an eastern indian civ and the Kindom of Punjab a western indian one and give a slant towards the Mauryans cause they would rise to prominence in the Hellenistic age

 

[jonatas]

indus valley:

if harappa is too early for your timeline, you could use the aryans, who migrate there in 1500 BC, but eventually end up farther east in the Ganges around 750 BC. If you want later than this for the indus valley (around 600 BC) then use the kingdom of Gandhar (modern Kandahar in Afghanistan), one of the 16 kingdoms that appear at this time through the sub continent of India. The kingdom of Gandhar is conquered by Cyrus or Darius of Persia, I can't remember which, in 500's BC. (later conquered by Alexander) The kingdom of Magadha, also one of the 16 kingdoms, but based in the ganges, forms the first real Indian empire by eliminating the kingdoms near the ganges. Magadha actually buys the Kingdom of Gandhar and the rest of the Indus valley from the Seleucid greeks in 304 BC for elephants. I can find much more detailed info on this particular period and/or a particular kingdom, but do you want it?

 

[jonatas]

punkymonkey:

only got to read your post after I posted mine, sorry! But I think we're talking about the same thing. Magadha appears around 600 BC, the Mauryans are a different dynasty of the same empire, they do come later in the picture and their center is on the ganges. They are the real Indian empire, if you want something earlier than them and based on the indus my only recommendation is Gandhar, they're not a famous civ but they did exist, the territory was conquered by the persians and then Alexandar, then sold back to Magadha/ Mauryan civ. Magadha works if you want to start 600BC and on the ganges, but Maurya is a more recognized (and later)civ.
btw Harrapa is really outdated if you're starting 600BC or later, sorry- but things like caste system and religious, warlike traits really do still apply to any indian civs you may want to use.

 

[Yoda Power]

Its great you guys keep comming with information for me. I dont have the time to read it all for now. But I will begin working on it again next week

 

[Yoda Power]

Ok im on this project again. I want to move on to buildings, so just begin pump out ideas. I will make a list of the buildings im gonna use when I have enough ideas

 

[Yoda Power]

btw since Firaxis chnged the FP effect I cant maje satrapies the way I want them, so skip that idea

 

[The Last Conformist]

Not come 'round to testing it yet, but apparently corruption capping occurs before Courthouse and Police Station effects are factored in in 1.15. That would mean that if enough anticorruption buildings are available to the Persians, they could eventually knock down corruption to nil in the most distant cities.

Thought this might be useful.

 

[Yoda Power]

Im thinking of making a wonder called something like "Satrapies". That would simply work as a FP. Then the empire corruption would be a bit better than just rampant, probably problematic. Also there will be the corruption reducing heads avaiblable, though im not sure what to call them(obviosly Policeman doesn't word).

I startet on outlines to the second age tech tree. So far its very small, thats only because I still dont know what improvements/wonders to include(hint hint).
But anyway, The military line will give Macedon the most powerfull units in the scenario. The other lines will give Settlers and a wonde I plan to call "Behistun Inscriptions."

 

[The Last Conformist]

The Achaemenid kings had special agents know as the "Eyes of the King", charged to oversee the conduct of satraps and other officials, reporting corruption or treachery to the central government. I think you've got your name for renamed Policemen.

 

[Yoda Power]

Eyes of the King sounds funny sounds funny, but should work. I also want to allow comunication trading in this era, any ideas for a tech to give that?

BTW happy bday TLC (you know there is a birthday thread for you in OT, right?)

 

[Dr. Dr. Doktor]

I wonder how you are going to represent the fact that what plagued the Persian Empire were the incessant revolts by mainly the Egyptians and the Babylonians. IMHO persian culture should be weak, while Egyptian and Babylonian culture should be very strong. This would mean that large complements of troops would be needed to prevent flipping. (In reality the troops were stationed outside the cities.) Since there are precariously little architectural and litterary remains of the Archemenid Empire that would perhaps mean that the Persian Monarchial government should incorporate the new elements of the Fascist government, which inhibits cultural growth. The satrapies, which is a very good gameplay idea should produce little or no culture.

This is how I see your starting position. You start as Cyrus (leader unit) with a complement of Elite Archers. (according to Russian excavations palatital bodyguards were archers) The Median empire is in anarchy. The city you start in, Persepolis, have just revolted from the empire, and you see the opportunity to grasp the weakened Median empire quickly. Persepolis is located in desert. Luckily you are agricultural, in addition to being industrial and militaristic, so desert can be irrigated. Even better is it that your civilization have mastered the art of cattleherding, moving the cattle back and forth between the hilly uplands and the schorched lowlands according to the temperature of the seasons. In short cattle abounds around your prosperous city. Amazingly your people have through hard work dug deep tunnels, also know as 'qanats', (edit: spelling) into the the hills. Under these hills the groundwater table is raised, and the water can be led out unto the hills. Summa summarum the land, even hills, can be irrigated without acces to surface water.

Well, these were some ideas.

BTW. I have an idea for a new wonder specific to this Scenario. The Commagene Nemrut. The site is placed at the top of Mount Nemrut in the Turkish province of Adiyaman. Essentially it is the grave of King Antiochus, who supposedly is buried under the Tumulus. A Tumulus is a mountain of stones. What is interesting that the deities which are placed the foot of the Tumulus facing East and West represent a syncrestic mix between Persian and Greek culture and religion. So in some symbolic way it represents the end of Greek/Persian rivalry. (The kings of Commagene were no friends of the Romans). I propose that this wonder could represent an ancient version of the UN wonder.

Post Scriptum.

I am unhappy that Arabs are not going to be in the game. When Cambyses invaded Egypt he specifically had to ask the Arabs for a right of passage((According to Herodotus)

Have you considered naming the Athenian city and their allies, simply the Ionians?

 

[The Last Conformist]

galgacus PM'd me 'bout the birthday thread, otherwise I'd no doubt missed it - I'm almost never over in OT.

Dr^3: Which King Antiochus would that be? There are a few to chose between!

Persepolis isn't really in a desert. Fars is pretty arid, but no desert. And it's qanat, without any 'u'.

Culture-flipping Babylonians and Egyptians won't work that well. It'll make the initial conquests harder, while they in reality were tolerably quick and clean affairs, but once the civs are wiped out (and that's gonna happen if CFs are a big concern) they won't be revolting at all. Setting the assimilation percentage to something very low is about all you can do.

Realistically, the Persians would start out with more than one city - the early Achaemenids ruled more or less all of Persis, albeit as Median vassals in the early 6th C BC.

 

[Dr. Dr. Doktor]

Originally posted by Yoda Power
Also there will be the corruption reducing heads avaiblable, though im not sure what to call them(obviosly Policeman doesn't word).

What about 'money counters'. The main economic problem facing the Persian Empire was the infusion of cheap Athenian silver coins, pushing the Babylonian shekel from the market. Excavations have been pointing to forgeries of Athenian coins.

 

[Dr. Dr. Doktor]

The Last Conformist

Antiochus I was instated as king in 69 BC. His Paternal linage was originated in Darius, king of Persia, and his maternal linage originated in Alxender the Great. Ok this is clearly to late for this scenario. Nevertheless maybe the tech which allows the UN victory can be put at the very end of the tech tree, allowing for an alternate and ahistorical win. (what us the timeframe of the scenario BTW?)

I see the problem with wiping out the AI. What about increasing the number of Babylonian and Egyptian towns? Really a shame that the Ai is gone when all cities are conquered. However in order to make the initial conquests easier, naturally the Persians will have a strong army.

I think the problems facing the persian empire was in this order.
1)Revolts
2)Corruption
3)Athens

A scenario close to facts should perhaps reflect that, although it wouldn't be a warmonger game anymore. More of a builder game...

One more thing the Government of Babylon should be the Republic.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Why should Babylon be a Republic?

 

[The Last Conformist]

It shouldn't. Monarchy, in its Mesopotamian form, was a defining characteristic of Babylonian civilization. The Achaemenids took some pains to act as proper Mesopotamian kings in Babylonia (and as proper pharaohs in Egypt).

That'd be Antiochus I of Commagene. Yes, that would be well too late for this scen, I believe.