Scenario Request Thread
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Gaius Octavius
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Two words for you: Bug Jeckel!
He has a Colonization mod that's been in progress for about a year now and it looks promising.Mattdawg420
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Hi all! I have been looking EVERYWHERE for a mod that covers this subject. But I am looking for a mod that works in the newest version of BTS content. I am hoping to find seperate Hamas and Fatah factions as well as Isreal perhaps even being divided between hardline and softline factions. The scenario would have to include Iran and all of its puppet factions through the middle east, particularly Hezbolla (sp) in Lebanon. Also, and unstable Iraq would be a must as well. Of course the US and all the other world powers would play a role in this, however if it must be limited to the main factions, that is fine. But I would like to see a depth of scope where Iran is funding some other factions to do its bidding.. perhaps vasal states to make it work, I dunno. But obviously religion will play a huge portion, and I would primarily like to see Jew/Christ/Islamic as the main three used.. althoug others could be included just for good measure. But ultimately those 3 religions would play alot into it. And actually I have a more defined idea of what I would like to see in a scenario like this, but I am at work about to leave for the day, so I will likely update this post more indepthly shortly. Also, I would be interested in helping out in the creation of this mod if that is possible as well. I have not done any modding in CIV4 but have done it in other games. Anywho, that is all for now. But I just wanted to bring my eternal search for a scenario that plays out the palestinians vs isreal that brings in all the factions of each side. Ohh I can't wait... more details to come..
Mattdawg420
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Oh yes.. two countries do not a world war make. HOWEVER... there are other countries involved in this if a all out war were to break out. I did mention Iran and Iraq as well. Saudi Arabi would need to be included as an oil resource supplier to the US. Oh yes, of course the US would be allied with Isreal and other pro-US countries of the region. Also, it would be neat to see Pakistan and India at each others throats as well. Basically.. I would like to see a scenario that mimics all the difficulties that are facing the world today. But I would like the focus or flashpoint of the war be perhaps Hammas stepping up its agression again and forcing Isreal into an all outwar. ALthough this would trigger the other factions to follow as well. Look at it broadly it appears there would be two hardlined alliances of sides if not three if you put some creativity to it. But obviously you have the US side... the Anti US side (china/russa/europse) and the Islamic Fundamentalists (Hamas/Iran/etc) Although perhaps there would be a little shuffling on country alliances, but I think there could be a very well defined 3 pact struggle going on. I think the key to the scenario is to advert escalating into a nuclear battle. Pakistan, Isreal, US, etc would all have Nukes on hand and ready to go. Of course the US and USSR would have more than most. But Isreal should have a handful to corilate with world belief that they do have an undeclared stockpile. If there is some way to fit North Korea into this struggle as well, that would be awesome. Give them like 5 to maybe 10 nukes for good measure. But ultimately, the world as it sits today is on a flash point... and I would love to play out this scenario attempting to advert the end of all mankind. But cenrtally to the theme of this scenario.. I think it would be awesome to center on Isreal and like make there an attempt to peace with Fattah faction but the Hammas faciton ends up causing a big problem.. maybe a suitcase nuke incident or something.. but that causes the spark to ignite the war. More to come.. have to get back to work.. boss showed up.. but is not anyone interested in something like this?
Flavor James
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Id like to play a Yugoslav War scenario....preferably the Croatian War of Independence
Mattdawg420
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Perhaps that would be the title of the modern day scenario that I would like to work on designing with someone. I have made a couple other posts above this on this subject, but I am very interested in finding someone with modding experience to help with this project. I am also interested on getting feedback about this project as I think that it would really give a perspective to the global problems facing the world today. The question is how large of a scope of a project people would be interested in making. Mainly I was interested in all the craziness in the middle east these days, and all the ramifications around the world that events that might unfold there can play out. I have heard that there were some good Civ3 scenario/maps and what not that covered some of this. But I would really like to see the improvements to culture and religions to have a big play in all of this.
I have a good idea about what civs I would like to have in the mod, and who likes/hates whom and such. But I am curious if people would be interested in the world as it is RIGHT now as of 2008 or perhaps play 2015 or something so that we could hypothetically play out some scenarios of what if. Both mechanics would play well together, but I am curious what people would be interested in playing.
The core of the plot as it stands is pretty much the world is getting close to the boiling point. The Iraq and Afghanistan war has america's military's might tied up. The Arab states are getting more ticked at Isreal, although a peace agreement is still in the works to define a Palestine state. The Fattah faction is working with Israel to broker the deal, while the Hammas faction is bent on all out war. It would be interesting it Fattah and Hammas declared on each other with Isreal supporting Hammas. But of course all the surrounding arab states would likely support Fattah of course. Iran will have special units that can offer upgrades to the lesser units and supply them with IEDs and the like. Also there could be Al Quida added as a Barbarian race if you will heh. Although it could be allied with some of the arab states, others would be at war with them. I am still not entirely sure how to deal with that issue. But basically it would be neat if the arabs could get like 1 turn created stone throwing units or something heh but maybe they could get armed by other covert arab countries
Then there is the whole nuclear issue... we all know the countries that declare they have them and we all know Israel has a few themselves. But you could have a new unit like suitcase nuke that has to be hand-carried in or something. But obviously the use of one nuke would likely setout an all out war but that could be part of the fun of seeing who would be left heh. But maybe the suitcase nukes could be carried by spy units or a new class unit but basically it could be an espionage mission where maybe they dont know WHO it was that just dropped a nukecase on their doorstep You could even throw in like North Korea with a small arsenal. Obviously Russia still has quite a few but the breakup of states leaves them very insecure, lets say if a rouge faction were to want to steal some through another new espionage method
And with all the Jihading going on and religious wars about, why not throw in the Dafar issue as well and get that going. Although I realize the size of the map is going to be insanely huge if we get them all in there. But perhaps a realisticish world map would be good to do this, especially if you want to have America in the picture. I hate how in most WWII simulators.. you only have like 2 American cities to work with usually, and the mainland is ultimately safe. But perhaps we could make this the ultimate sim, put a little bit of everything, or if we must focus on the small region conflict I am happy with that initially just as there really aren't many that deal with that time/region. But if there are some modders out there looking for an ambitious project that has high potential, please get with me so we can get this thing going. More to come..
I have a good idea about what civs I would like to have in the mod, and who likes/hates whom and such. But I am curious if people would be interested in the world as it is RIGHT now as of 2008 or perhaps play 2015 or something so that we could hypothetically play out some scenarios of what if. Both mechanics would play well together, but I am curious what people would be interested in playing.
The core of the plot as it stands is pretty much the world is getting close to the boiling point. The Iraq and Afghanistan war has america's military's might tied up. The Arab states are getting more ticked at Isreal, although a peace agreement is still in the works to define a Palestine state. The Fattah faction is working with Israel to broker the deal, while the Hammas faction is bent on all out war. It would be interesting it Fattah and Hammas declared on each other with Isreal supporting Hammas. But of course all the surrounding arab states would likely support Fattah of course. Iran will have special units that can offer upgrades to the lesser units and supply them with IEDs and the like. Also there could be Al Quida added as a Barbarian race if you will heh. Although it could be allied with some of the arab states, others would be at war with them. I am still not entirely sure how to deal with that issue. But basically it would be neat if the arabs could get like 1 turn created stone throwing units or something heh but maybe they could get armed by other covert arab countries
Then there is the whole nuclear issue... we all know the countries that declare they have them and we all know Israel has a few themselves. But you could have a new unit like suitcase nuke that has to be hand-carried in or something. But obviously the use of one nuke would likely setout an all out war but that could be part of the fun of seeing who would be left heh. But maybe the suitcase nukes could be carried by spy units or a new class unit but basically it could be an espionage mission where maybe they dont know WHO it was that just dropped a nukecase on their doorstep
You could even throw in like North Korea with a small arsenal. Obviously Russia still has quite a few but the breakup of states leaves them very insecure, lets say if a rouge faction were to want to steal some through another new espionage method And with all the Jihading going on and religious wars about, why not throw in the Dafar issue as well and get that going. Although I realize the size of the map is going to be insanely huge if we get them all in there. But perhaps a realisticish world map would be good to do this, especially if you want to have America in the picture. I hate how in most WWII simulators.. you only have like 2 American cities to work with usually, and the mainland is ultimately safe. But perhaps we could make this the ultimate sim, put a little bit of everything, or if we must focus on the small region conflict I am happy with that initially just as there really aren't many that deal with that time/region. But if there are some modders out there looking for an ambitious project that has high potential, please get with me so we can get this thing going. More to come..
Mattdawg420
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I think you are right about that. Although I would be happy without the special units and the such and just the custom civilizations being used. However, it does seem like I am going to need a mod to do the who thing. What really sucks is all the mod utilities I have used crash or give random errors, so the only way I can do anything is by hand. And this is quite a project to sink ones noobie teeth into. But that being said.. maybe I need to repost all this in the mods area too in hopes of finding someone to work on this project together.
VetMichael
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Two words for you: Bug Jeckel!
AWESOME! Thanks! I'll check it out.
Yeah, I have the same experience w/mod utilities so far.
(BTW, I wasn't talking about special units or something, just the mere complexity of what you're proposing.) Anyway, hope you can make it!
Mattdawg420
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Ahh I see. I didn't know what the limitations of just making it a scenario would be, versus going for an all out mod. But thinking about it, there is really going to be a requirement for a mod to cover the scope of everything. Yeah I am going to need ALOT of luck in making it since I have zero experience... and the utlities crash... so I have to do it all by hand. I think with enough wasted efforts, eventually I will make some break throughs on how to figure out how to make things work. But I think ultimately the magnitude of what I want to do is too overwhelming for just one person anyways. But I am doing historical and geographical research for now to get the structure of who/what/where and all that. If anyone knows someone that would like to help or is willing to help themselves, just let me know.
Bleys
Deity
I hope this is the correct place to post my request.
I am looking to create scenarios at a very basic level for a new regular game that a group of us want to play. Here are the parameters:
Choice of either Noble or Prince difficulty (we call ourselves "The Nobles Club", but most want to play at Prince level)
Choice of game-speed, Normal, Epic or Marathon
No pre-knowledge of the opponent AIs (we all want to play the same leader each game)
Ability to play the scenario in our favorite MOD (I use HoF, some others use different MODs)
And thats it. Nothing complicated or special. I am fairly sure this can be done by creating a normal, generic game with the map/leader we wish to play, and editing the WB save. I have done some basic skimming of the "How To . . . " threads, but I want to be sure I have it correct.
For speed, I think its a matter of changing the setting in the WB file:
Under the heading:
BeginGame
Speed=NONE
And to make it so only the "chosen" leader will be seen in the scenario list, set all the AIs to:
Under the heading:
BeginPlayer
PlayableCiv=0
. . . however, I am not sure how to make the proper adjustment for difficulty. I plan to create the game at Prince level, take to WB, save, and edit that file, then post it with instructions for how to play as a scenario. But I want those who wish to play at Noble level to be able to choose that difficulty and have the AIs properly balanced in each choice.
Is there a simple way to set the WB file to various difficulties? Am I on the right track here?
I am looking to create scenarios at a very basic level for a new regular game that a group of us want to play. Here are the parameters:
Choice of either Noble or Prince difficulty (we call ourselves "The Nobles Club", but most want to play at Prince level)
Choice of game-speed, Normal, Epic or Marathon
No pre-knowledge of the opponent AIs (we all want to play the same leader each game)
Ability to play the scenario in our favorite MOD (I use HoF, some others use different MODs)
And thats it. Nothing complicated or special. I am fairly sure this can be done by creating a normal, generic game with the map/leader we wish to play, and editing the WB save. I have done some basic skimming of the "How To . . . " threads, but I want to be sure I have it correct.
For speed, I think its a matter of changing the setting in the WB file:
Under the heading:
BeginGame
Speed=NONE
And to make it so only the "chosen" leader will be seen in the scenario list, set all the AIs to:
Under the heading:
BeginPlayer
PlayableCiv=0
. . . however, I am not sure how to make the proper adjustment for difficulty. I plan to create the game at Prince level, take to WB, save, and edit that file, then post it with instructions for how to play as a scenario. But I want those who wish to play at Noble level to be able to choose that difficulty and have the AIs properly balanced in each choice.
Is there a simple way to set the WB file to various difficulties? Am I on the right track here?
I don't know if I've said this before, but a Sengoku Japan Scenario, starting RIGHT after the Battle of Okehazama, Real leaders in real Starting Positions, real Citys
Mainly I want maybe something representing an Imperial Palace, maybe a building granting + Great Samurai (General), being able to build Imperial Soldiers?
Some Daimyos I'd like to see would be:
Oda Nobunaga
Azai Nagamasa
Tokugawa Ieyasu
Hōjō Sōun
Date Masamune
Takeda Shingen
Uesugi Kenshin
Shimazu Yoshihiro
Saitō Dōsan
the others can be like Barbarian-ish, or just one always at war Un-contactable civ.
I woulden't know about UU/UB so I wouldent worry about it. Maybe even add in a little bit of Korea's Shores? Get a Korea Civ that woulden't get Galleys?
Mainly I want maybe something representing an Imperial Palace, maybe a building granting + Great Samurai (General), being able to build Imperial Soldiers?
Some Daimyos I'd like to see would be:
Oda Nobunaga
Azai Nagamasa
Tokugawa Ieyasu
Hōjō Sōun
Date Masamune
Takeda Shingen
Uesugi Kenshin
Shimazu Yoshihiro
Saitō Dōsan
the others can be like Barbarian-ish, or just one always at war Un-contactable civ.
I woulden't know about UU/UB so I wouldent worry about it. Maybe even add in a little bit of Korea's Shores? Get a Korea Civ that woulden't get Galleys?
nothin_personal
Chieftain
I am an old player, and since the Civ II I was dreamiong about a realistic approach to the ancient Greek world. Now, with the colony status in the BTS, I think this is attainable. A new mod could be created, where you can onlycontrol one city and every other city you build, becomes a colony.
I have several ideas and a deep enough Knowledge of the ancient Greek history to help any such try, but I know nothing about moding. three scenario ideas that I came up with:
Greek Tribes: Dorieans, Ions, Aioleans, Myceneans, and Minoans (SP?). Add Pelasgians and Illyrians, and maybe Troy and Frygia and you got enough to work with. Core game, where your ultimate goal is to make everyone your vassal or colony. Lots of manipulation, treachery and diplomacy micromanagement, with major cities having multiple colonies and vassals. Razing of cities should be deactivated.
Doric Invasion: The Dorieans (the only tribe that posseses Iron working at the begining) start at the north of the map and find their way down to Peloponissos.. The catch? Cities they conquer become colonies after 10 turns and vassals after another 10. They also can't control more than one city at a time. Goal? Establish the city of Sparta at the preordained location (with the premade settler unit that they have to carry and protect for the whole ride). Secondary goal? Occupy the once legendary city of Mycenae!
Persian Wars: Important Greek Cities are on the map, some binded by Vassal or colonial ties (Athens with colonies Miletos and vassals Samos and Chios, Sparta with a couple of sattelite-colony cities (Messinia, Elis with the Zeus Statue Wonder), Korinth with colony Potidaia and vassal(?) Syracuse, Thiva (vassals Voiotiean league and Fokis with the Oracle Wonder), Plataiea, Argos, Rhodes with Colossus etc. Macedonians starting with Aegae get half the religion bonus, but can have more than just one city under control. All those cities are binded by Hllenic religion that acts as ethnicity (spread only when they are built, the Settlers carry it with them and assimilation after conquest). This should have a lot larger impact (double?) than regular religion, so that even though they fight and bicker between themselves, they unite before external danger (usually they do, there always "traitors" like Thiva and Alicarnassus in the Persian wars. This is why a substantial, religion implied, relations bonus works better than a single nation. Outside enemies are various and at all sizes. They can control any number of cities, but pay big maintenance costs. Persian empire with vassal Phoenicia, Egypt, Mesopotamia, has to face multiple mutinies from their vassals before turning west (or maybe Egypt, Mesopotamia starts independand but declining and Persia is at war with them). Former Phoenician colony of Carthagene (Now independant since Motherland iwas capitulated), looks at Sicily as the only expansion road (they hold a city on the Southeast of the island). They have desert (and the end of the map!) surrounding every other way). Upstart Rome breaks free from the Etrouscan league and they have to deal with the consequences before turning East). Finally, at the northern borders, various minor nations are posing a threat (Illyria, Scythia, and others). You can play any of the outside Nation and the 4 motherland cities of Greece (Athens, Sparta, Korinth and Thiva). Wonders already placed the three afformentioned and The hanging Gardens, Pyramids and others build in the area of the game until 750 BC when the game begins
I have several ideas and a deep enough Knowledge of the ancient Greek history to help any such try, but I know nothing about moding. three scenario ideas that I came up with:
Greek Tribes: Dorieans, Ions, Aioleans, Myceneans, and Minoans (SP?). Add Pelasgians and Illyrians, and maybe Troy and Frygia and you got enough to work with. Core game, where your ultimate goal is to make everyone your vassal or colony. Lots of manipulation, treachery and diplomacy micromanagement, with major cities having multiple colonies and vassals. Razing of cities should be deactivated.
Doric Invasion: The Dorieans (the only tribe that posseses Iron working at the begining) start at the north of the map and find their way down to Peloponissos.. The catch? Cities they conquer become colonies after 10 turns and vassals after another 10. They also can't control more than one city at a time. Goal? Establish the city of Sparta at the preordained location (with the premade settler unit that they have to carry and protect for the whole ride). Secondary goal? Occupy the once legendary city of Mycenae!
Persian Wars: Important Greek Cities are on the map, some binded by Vassal or colonial ties (Athens with colonies Miletos and vassals Samos and Chios, Sparta with a couple of sattelite-colony cities (Messinia, Elis with the Zeus Statue Wonder), Korinth with colony Potidaia and vassal(?) Syracuse, Thiva (vassals Voiotiean league and Fokis with the Oracle Wonder), Plataiea, Argos, Rhodes with Colossus etc. Macedonians starting with Aegae get half the religion bonus, but can have more than just one city under control. All those cities are binded by Hllenic religion that acts as ethnicity (spread only when they are built, the Settlers carry it with them and assimilation after conquest). This should have a lot larger impact (double?) than regular religion, so that even though they fight and bicker between themselves, they unite before external danger (usually they do, there always "traitors" like Thiva and Alicarnassus in the Persian wars. This is why a substantial, religion implied, relations bonus works better than a single nation. Outside enemies are various and at all sizes. They can control any number of cities, but pay big maintenance costs. Persian empire with vassal Phoenicia, Egypt, Mesopotamia, has to face multiple mutinies from their vassals before turning west (or maybe Egypt, Mesopotamia starts independand but declining and Persia is at war with them). Former Phoenician colony of Carthagene (Now independant since Motherland iwas capitulated), looks at Sicily as the only expansion road (they hold a city on the Southeast of the island). They have desert (and the end of the map!) surrounding every other way). Upstart Rome breaks free from the Etrouscan league and they have to deal with the consequences before turning East). Finally, at the northern borders, various minor nations are posing a threat (Illyria, Scythia, and others). You can play any of the outside Nation and the 4 motherland cities of Greece (Athens, Sparta, Korinth and Thiva). Wonders already placed the three afformentioned and The hanging Gardens, Pyramids and others build in the area of the game until 750 BC when the game begins
Seconded! If someone can do it, I would kill for a really good modern day scenario or mod for BTS! The best year 2000 or later map I've been able to find so far is one for maxriga mod, which is for vanilla civ. No vassal states or anything.
As mattdawg420 said, this scenario/mod could focus primarily around the Arab/Israeli conflict. Possibly with Israel, Lebanon, Iran, and Syria being playable nations, Gaza and the West Bank being a furious Israeli vassal trying to get free, Iraq and Afghanistan being occupied by the USA, and Saudi Arabia being a US vassal.
Other than that, there would be a number of interesting ways to play it. You have India and China as developing empires with populations that dwarf the current military powers (USA and Russia), with the potential to dwarf their production. The two are potential rivals for influence in south Asia, and there has been hostility between these two countries in the recent past (war in 1962). China has the potential to get into an arms race with the US, and the two are struggling against each other for influence and resources in the weak African and Latin American nations. Venezuela is gaining power in Latin America, should probably have control of Cuba (in the name of limiting civs), and has a very hostile Columbia on it's border, which should probably start as an American vassal. Brazil has the potential to develop in to a major power. The US is still the dominant financial power by a great deal, has a vast superiority in naval and air forces, and a slight nuclear advantage over Russia. However, their ground troops should be close to being stretched due to all of their deployments. China has the biggest land army, but they are older, weaker units than the US has.
If anyone is thinking about making a scenario or mod like that, please do! I would help working on it but I can't wrap my head around making these things. I do have a reasonable knowledge of history, geography, and current geopolitical affairs, so if any modder (is that a word?) is looking for advice on how to make a scenario more interesting or realistic, I could probably be of some help there, and would be happy to do so.
I think if someone is going to do this right, they may as well do it on the biggest map possible. So, let's think about how many nations you would have to make playable to make this thing close to perfect. Unfortunately offhand I'm not sure how many civs you can have. I just started playing BTS, I think it's 27 but I could be way off.
USA (controls Iraq, Afghanistan, Philippines, Diego Garcia, South Korea, Taiwan, collection of Pacific Islands; Hawaii, Marianas, Samoa, etc). Iraq and Afghanistan should include a couple fairly strong barbarian cities, so the US forces could take some hits. The barbarians could have troops throughout that US controlled region, possibly some type of special forces unit even. Damn this could be cool.
Canada
Mexico
China
North Korea
Russia
European Union
UK
Eastern Europe (Non-NATO/EU countries... Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia, Romania, Serbia, etc)
Israel
Palestine (Gaza and west bank)
Turkey
Egypt
Iran
Syria (could possibly be merged into Iran, since they have a mutual defense agreement)
Lebanon
Saudi Arabia - (Could include the group of other American client states in the mid east. Could make this include Jordan, Yemen, UAE, Oman, Kuwait, Qutar. This group could be one civ with Saudi Arabia, or one of it's own.)
Pakistan
India
Sudan (almost forgot about that one, have to have conflict going on there, maybe with and independent Chad or a weak west African union.)
Venezuela (controls Cuba, maybe Bolivia)
Columbia
Brazil
Argentina
So that's 24, 25 if you make Chad, and you have most of the major conflicts very well covered, now all you really have to figure out is how you want to cut up the rest of Africa and South East Asia. Obviously this depends on how many civs you want to include. I wish I knew the max, something is telling me 27, which doesn't leave much. It would be sweet to have at least an independent Vietnam, Myanmar, and Thailand, along with the ASEAN controlling Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, etc. In Africa, you'd probably have to make a pretty good sized African union since civs are limited. It would be nice to have at least an independent South Africa and Nigeria, in addition to Sudan and Chad, which should start at war. Obviously Egypt is there too and could probably cover a little more ground than they really have. You could make countries like Eritrea and Somalia into strong barbarian states.
There are a few nations I listed above that you could merge if you had to, to make SEA and Africa better. Maybe Syria into Iran. Mexico into the USA. UK into EU. Argentina could be merged with Venezuela. All of these would take away from realism but could be done if needed.
Here's a good resource for anyone wanting to make a modern civ like this, it's a list of the world's current militaries by troop size.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_active_troops
Honestly if anyone is willing to put in the work to make this thing, I would figure out exactly how many of each unit to give each country, based on their real army, naval, and air forces.
I know this is a popular view, but Saudi Arabia wouldn't agree to being called a puppet regime - although they certainly are a loyal US ally, most of the time anyway.
Cuba a vassal of Venezuela? Ally maybe. Also, Venezuela isn't gaining power, but prestige. Columbia is a federal state - Colombia is an independent state, though a US ally (and in-game might be a US "vassal").
There are already scenarios with 33-34 civs for BTS. (The problem is playability, as waiting times may increase beyond the fun factor.)
The US do not control Iraq, Afghanistan, the Philippines, South Korea, Taiwan and Samoa - although the Philippines, South Korea and Taiwan are allies (and in-game might be considered "vassals").
Poland and the Baltic states are among the first new EU members, Romania is a member and all these are NATO members.
Thanks JEELEN, I'm glad others have some interest in this.
Wouldn't agree in public, as no monarch of a vassal state would at almost any time throughout history, but in my view Saudi Arabia is the definition of a client state. That monarchy is gone decades ago if not for US military support, and they know if they stop doing America's will they'd be gone. No offense intended to anyone in or from Saudi Arabia, just stating a fact. I don't want this to get political.
I thought Cuba and Venezuela could be merged in the name of limiting Civs, but separate and allied would be cool too. Actually Chavez has suggested merging the two countries, so it really isn't that far fetched. Venezuela is gaining prestige, power, and influence in Latin America, not just prestige. They are expanding their military and trade relations, they bailed out Argentina, etc. I'm not saying they're becoming a super power like Brazil could become one day, but they are growing in most regards.
Agree about Columbia, I suppose. Should be a vassal, but not part of the US empire, because unlike say South Korea, there is a chance that the people of Columbia could overthrow their future Fussdirag without the US intervening, however unlikely.
That is awesome news. I would love to see a scenario like this with that many civs.
Again, don't want to get political, but obviously the USA controls Iraq and Afghanistan right now. I'm saying what should be made is an accurate scenario of what is happening on earth today. Obviously the US trying to hold on to Iraq and Afghanistan against insurgents (barbarians), maybe with some NATO and Canadian troops helping out, with a hostile Iran and Syria nearby would be a huge part of this map, and could be a very fun way to play IMO. What American wouldn't want to go into Iraq and Afghanistan and root out the insurgents? To try to say that isn't going on right now is a little silly, this is a message board, not Fox News. It would be insane to overlook this conflict in a mod that is supposed to represent 2008. What are you going to make Iraq and Afghanistan? Peaceful, independent democracies? Come on now, I said realistic. This is a key aspect.
The Philippines are controlled by the US and have been since the Spanish/American war, with the obvious exception of when Japan temporarily held them during WWII. Making them an independent vassal state would be a waste. Sure they're not an official "protectorate", like Puerto Rico or Guam, which get symbolic (non voting) congressmen, but to call the Philippines an independent country is a little silly. They haven't been an official colony of the US since 1946, but in case you haven't noticed, the US doesn't have any "official" colonies anymore. To make every neo-colony an independent vassal state would use up too many civs.
Same with South Korea and Taiwan. Without American forces in these countries they would be defenseless, and the US has controlled every aspect of creating these states from their constitutions to their economies. To me it makes more sense to create more independent countries, like some in Africa or others in South East Asia, instead of these. Have America control all of their neo-colonies, so they are tasked with the defense of these nations, as in real life. Particularly South Korea vs North Korea and Taiwan vs China. If the person making this wants to make these independent vassals of the US and can somehow make the US keep forces there, great.
The US does obviously control the Marianas, parts of Samoa, Midway, Jarvis, Palmyra, and most other pacific islands. I don't live in the USA so I'm not sure how they teach their citizens about these territories (ie what they call them, if anything), but they are essentially American colonies. What do you think our side won in WWII??
Absolutely right, I was way off. I don't know how I could have said Poland is not in NATO, with all the missile defense talk for the past year. Mental Lapse. ha, cut me some slack though, they're not ALL NATO states. Belarus, Ukraine, Serbia and a few others would still have to be independent of Russia and the west. Tough call on what to do with NATO states that aren't part of the EU. Maybe a separate NATO alliance that is a vassal of the US or EU. Of course in that, you would have to include Turkey.
Obviously I left out a number of countries we would need in my original count, so I'm glad too hear that the number is higher than I thought. Australia and Japan (American vassal) being the biggies I forget. Then the maker would have to figure out how many civs he wants, and from that decide which Latin American, African, and South East Asian states to include.
Wouldn't agree in public, as no monarch of a vassal state would at almost any time throughout history, but in my view Saudi Arabia is the definition of a client state. That monarchy is gone decades ago if not for US military support, and they know if they stop doing America's will they'd be gone. No offense intended to anyone in or from Saudi Arabia, just stating a fact. I don't want this to get political.
I thought Cuba and Venezuela could be merged in the name of limiting Civs, but separate and allied would be cool too. Actually Chavez has suggested merging the two countries, so it really isn't that far fetched. Venezuela is gaining prestige, power, and influence in Latin America, not just prestige. They are expanding their military and trade relations, they bailed out Argentina, etc. I'm not saying they're becoming a super power like Brazil could become one day, but they are growing in most regards.
Agree about Columbia, I suppose. Should be a vassal, but not part of the US empire, because unlike say South Korea, there is a chance that the people of Columbia could overthrow their future Fussdirag without the US intervening, however unlikely.
That is awesome news. I would love to see a scenario like this with that many civs.
Again, don't want to get political, but obviously the USA controls Iraq and Afghanistan right now. I'm saying what should be made is an accurate scenario of what is happening on earth today. Obviously the US trying to hold on to Iraq and Afghanistan against insurgents (barbarians), maybe with some NATO and Canadian troops helping out, with a hostile Iran and Syria nearby would be a huge part of this map, and could be a very fun way to play IMO. What American wouldn't want to go into Iraq and Afghanistan and root out the insurgents? To try to say that isn't going on right now is a little silly, this is a message board, not Fox News. It would be insane to overlook this conflict in a mod that is supposed to represent 2008. What are you going to make Iraq and Afghanistan? Peaceful, independent democracies? Come on now, I said realistic. This is a key aspect.
The Philippines are controlled by the US and have been since the Spanish/American war, with the obvious exception of when Japan temporarily held them during WWII. Making them an independent vassal state would be a waste. Sure they're not an official "protectorate", like Puerto Rico or Guam, which get symbolic (non voting) congressmen, but to call the Philippines an independent country is a little silly. They haven't been an official colony of the US since 1946, but in case you haven't noticed, the US doesn't have any "official" colonies anymore. To make every neo-colony an independent vassal state would use up too many civs.
Same with South Korea and Taiwan. Without American forces in these countries they would be defenseless, and the US has controlled every aspect of creating these states from their constitutions to their economies. To me it makes more sense to create more independent countries, like some in Africa or others in South East Asia, instead of these. Have America control all of their neo-colonies, so they are tasked with the defense of these nations, as in real life. Particularly South Korea vs North Korea and Taiwan vs China. If the person making this wants to make these independent vassals of the US and can somehow make the US keep forces there, great.
The US does obviously control the Marianas, parts of Samoa, Midway, Jarvis, Palmyra, and most other pacific islands. I don't live in the USA so I'm not sure how they teach their citizens about these territories (ie what they call them, if anything), but they are essentially American colonies. What do you think our side won in WWII??
Absolutely right, I was way off. I don't know how I could have said Poland is not in NATO, with all the missile defense talk for the past year. Mental Lapse. ha, cut me some slack though, they're not ALL NATO states. Belarus, Ukraine, Serbia and a few others would still have to be independent of Russia and the west. Tough call on what to do with NATO states that aren't part of the EU. Maybe a separate NATO alliance that is a vassal of the US or EU. Of course in that, you would have to include Turkey.
Obviously I left out a number of countries we would need in my original count, so I'm glad too hear that the number is higher than I thought. Australia and Japan (American vassal) being the biggies I forget. Then the maker would have to figure out how many civs he wants, and from that decide which Latin American, African, and South East Asian states to include.
TheAmerican
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2007
- Messages
- 179
I really want to see a Spanish Civil War scenario. 1936-1939.
Theres's an entire Spain 1936 mod by Fabrysse.
Views are not facts, but opinions. (And the Saudis are rich enough to want to prefer US support; I wonder if the US support their use of the sharia too.)
Once again, I think the people of Venezuela would disagree. (And certainly once old Chavez is gone, so will their supposedly increased power be.)
(Most US citizens, sensible enough, stay well clear of those countries.) Controlling countries and trying to hold out against insurgents, again, is contradictory: it's either one or the other.
Protectorates don't get congressmen: Puerto Rico (for all practical purposes) is part of the US (as are the Pacific isles you mention); Samoa is independent, American Samoa obviously not. Also, the 50 million South Koreans are perfectly capable of holding off the much smaller North Korea. Similarly the 88 million Philippinos consider themselves quite independent.
Those are facts. How someone transports them into a working scenario is ofcourse quite another matter.
Views are not facts, but opinions. (And the Saudis are rich enough to want to prefer US support; I wonder if the US support their use of the sharia too.)
Once again, I think the people of Venezuela would disagree. (And certainly once old Chavez is gone, so will their supposedly increased power be.)
(Most US citizens, sensible enough, stay well clear of those countries.) Controlling countries and trying to hold out against insurgents, again, is contradictory: it's either one or the other.
Protectorates don't get congressmen: Puerto Rico (for all practical purposes) is part of the US (as are the Pacific isles you mention); Samoa is independent, American Samoa obviously not. Also, the 50 million South Koreans are perfectly capable of holding off the much smaller North Korea. Similarly the 88 million Philippinos consider themselves quite independent.
Those are facts. How someone transports them into a working scenario is ofcourse quite another matter.
