Scions documentation

[Iceciro]

My suggestions: Fewer of them, more useful. Quicker stage changes, the ability to remove invis at the player's discretion.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

I really love creepers! Speaking of which...what have you done with them? I have created 4 haunted lands so far, and no creeper in sight??? I cannot build them, either?

Corina the Black lady fell victim to a barbarian stack. BTW, I thought a shakled Korina was not allowed outside cultural borders, but it now reads, she is not allowed in rival territory, but I could get her out in neutral lands.

Some more info about how can you get the creeper in the civilopedia would be useful.

Do not have quicker stage changes please. They are fine right now, or they will become too powerful...IMO. I am also agaist the fewer, more useful arguments. Just as they are but more?

The only think that would feel better would be to make them able to lift their invisibility. After all, some times, you want those vile beings protect your cultural borders, right?

EDIT: Patch E. I prefer using creepers as traps and blocking enemy recons from entering my territory so far. Not being able to lift the invisibility is a nuisance, though.

 

[Valkrionn]

Simply allowing them to mature faster would make them worthwhile in my opinion.

 

[Valkrionn]

I really love creepers! Speaking of which...what have you done with them? I have created 4 haunted lands so far, and no creeper in sight??? I cannot build them, either?

Corina the Black lady fell victim to a barbarian stack. BTW, I thought a shakled Korina was not allowed outside cultural borders, but it now reads, she is not allowed in rival territory, but I could get her out in neutral lands.

Some more info about how can you get the creeper in the civilopedia would be useful.

Do not have quicker stage changes please. They are fine right now, or they will become too powerful...IMO. I am also agaist the fewer, more useful arguments. Just as they are but more?

The only think that would feel better would be to make them able to lift their invisibility. After all, some times, you want those vile beings protect your cultural borders, right?

EDIT: Patch E. I prefer using creepers as traps and blocking enemy recons from entering my territory so far. Not being able to lift the invisibility is a nuisance, though.

The only reason I'd prefer fewer is by the end game, I've conquered my continent and covered it in HL..... not sure how often they spawn, but when they do I end up with 40 of the little buggers. Lots of micro-management deleting them.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

The only reason I'd prefer fewer is by the end game, I've conquered my continent and covered it in HL..... not sure how often they spawn, but when they do I end up with 40 of the little buggers. Lots of micro-management deleting them.

Why micromanage them? If you just leave them where they spawned and get them fortify, they are fine. You never know when you are going to use them. Those sneaky enemy recons are hard to catch with the slow scion's units...

Btw. For the first time I figuered out what drowsing does...OK, I may be slow at times, but the civilopedia entry does not really help. Since there can be more like me I will say in this post what it really does FYI.

Drowsing reveals the hidden resources due to not having yet researched the technology revealing them, in the explored portion of the map. In order to see them, you press the button for showing the resources(last to the right IIRC), since there is no visual indication for them on the map.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

OK, I have played 60 more turns. I figured out how the new creeper thing works. I did find something strange, though. I had creepers spawning in a city, although cities do not have haunted lands. Is this how it is supposed to be?

The +1 Movement when on haunted lands is not handled well when calculating where can the unit go. So, it happens that you end up 1 or more squares away from your desired location, because the game does not know that, as soon as you are off the haunted lands, there is no +1 movement...So you have to walk one square at the time, which is painful to do if you have 10-25 units to move...

I think 4 turns(Standart speed) is too quickly for the ghostwalkers to finish mend nature. I suggest setting it back to 6 turns.

Can you please give a detailed explaination of dowsing, and especially the part that "you could enjoy the benefits of having the resource even without researching the technoloy, if you happen to cast it many times" is mentioned in the civilopedia?

Can you tell me why the Scions cannot build farms? It would be an insentive to go Aristocracy, but without it, really the benefits of God King are much better.

 

[Tarquelne]

My staff is looking into the rest of your post. For these two:

Can you please give a detailed explaination of dowsing,

Nope! Never cast it, don't know how it works.

Can you tell me why the Scions cannot build farms?

For the AI - Farms aren't of much use to the Scions.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

My staff is looking into the rest of your post. For these two:

Wow, your staff? I didn't know you have a staff!?!
I feel priviledged.

Nope! Never cast it, don't know how it works.

Come one, you have created it? Maybe someone you know has created it? There should be someone that knows excactly what it does, no?

For the AI - Farms aren't of much use to the Scions.

They are of much use with Aristocracy. Perhaps you should make a condition to the preventing code and allow it for human players?

EDIT: After giving it a better thought, it doesn;t really worth it...Perhaps a 100% in awakening spawn or even 75% could be an incentive. But with 40%, I still prefer God King nomatter what, and cottages are far better than farms...

 

[Tarquelne]

Maybe someone you know has created? There should be someone that knows excactly what it does, no?

Yes to both... and you have pretty much the same channels to them as I do.

They are of much use with Aristocracy. Perhaps you should make a condition to the preventing code and allow it for human players?

You'd rather have a Farms than (growing) Cottages?

 

[Methuselah]

You'd rather have a Farms than (growing) Cottages?

Aristocracy is the "in" thing at the moment in MP at least, and for good reason.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

Yes to both... and you have pretty much the same channels to them as I do.

But not the same influence, I guess. So, please can the creator of this ritual tell us what does it do excactly?(Apart from the obvious after completing it)

You'd rather have a Farms than (growing) Cottages?

Darn! I thought I managed the editing before someone read it...Anyway, Aristocracy is weak for the Scions. Only benefit is just 40% awakened spawn. So, I do not think it does worth it. I had tried it and doesn't make up for the bonuses you can get from God King.

 

[Tarquelne]

Simply allowing them to mature faster would make them worthwhile in my opinion.

I'm going to try having mature 20 turns faster (total), spawn quite a bit less often (but just as many when they do), and lose invisibility with Rooted.

Other issues:

Aristocracy: Anyone actually use it? (Other than Valk.? )

Glory: Need nerfing? Maybe cut the culture bonus to +50 and/or drop the (rather insignificant) happiness boost? Or whatever it was Max suggested several months ago?

Haunted Lands/Ghostwalkers: I am inclined to move this back to 6 rather than 4 turns delay. Or how about having it work like the Redactor spell - an area of effect - but with a - /math/ - call it 50 turn delay? Heh.

What about 15 turns and the GW's plot is always changed (or not always, if there's a forest there already) and on average two additional adjacent plots get HL?

I'm trying to cut down on micro and make the HL growth seem a little more natural-ish. Theoretically the above would work out to *slightly* more HL plots, though not always just where you want them, and with a higher opportunity cost with each casting. Oh, and 1/3 the player intervention.

Korrina as leader:

Need an early game boost?

 

[Methuselah]

Korrina as leader:

Need an early game boost?

Could you not also nerf the emperor rather than boost Korrina, so she's a viable choice as she stands?

Example - Emperor's mark. If you wanted his cities to get free culture, give him the creative trait and drop one of the others. At the moment, this is just a cheap way of giving him a fifth trait (because lets face it, who actually finds the double production speed of monuments and carnivals (which need a guild now) useful? )

 

[Valkrionn]

Sadly, I'd have to agree with you on this one... Much as I like the Emperor's Mark, the culture bonus is just too much for the AI as it stands. I'm actually having to rush a conquest victory right now to avoid a culture victory.. Maybe remove that, or replace Arcane with it? As things stand now, I never really go down the arcane path with him anyway... Too many other paths want researching more, like the priests or commune with nature or drama for Reborn.

Also, I'd much prefer if the Haunted Lands slowly spread by themselves throughout your empire after being seeded by a creeper/ghostwalker. A very slow spread (1% chance per turn for any tile adjacent to HL and within your borders?) would be enough to allow for at least SOME coverage before reaching Redactors, and would remove quite a bit of micromanagement from spreading it. Of course, the casting time for ghostwalkers would then have to be increased to prevent the HL from spreading TOO quickly.

 

[Tarquelne]

Sure the Emperor could be nerfed instead. But I'm highly dependant on you guys for balance feedback, remember? If its suggested that Korrina needs a boost I'm a lot more likely to go with that than nerfing the Emperor.

Sadly, I'd have to agree with you on this one... Much as I like the Emperor's Mark, the culture bonus is just too much for the AI as it stands. I'm actually having to rush a conquest victory right now to avoid a culture victory..

Wow... I'm tempted to say that's more of a problem with the AI than with anything in the Scions. But the Scions do get a lot of cultural stuff early on...

EDIT:
I take it you're seeing the culture boost from the Mark buildings increase a lot so that by whenever you're nearing a cultural victory they're a significant contribution? I wonder if that could be reduced later in the game - obsolete the culture, or just remove the buildings.

OTOH, the Emperor's Mark is one of the more flavorful elements.

(And I'd say putting in Creative is a complete non-starter. He used to have it and it was too much: Cheaper Shines to Kylorin and +2 culture in *every* city, not just Scion founded ones. Made military and culture-wars way too easy to pursue at the same time.)

What about Charismatic? Something called "Charismatic" makes sense for background reasons but I'm far from happy with it. Rather than, say, diplomatic or maintenance bonuses it gives happiness and a military boon - that xp discount on leveling.

So despite the background stuff I'd rather drop Charismatic than Arcane. Both make sense for the background, but Arcane really delivers on making the civ more focused on magic. IMO Charismatic makes it easier to be a warmonger.

EDIT - to sum up:
I guess if the Emperor needs a significant nerf Charismatic is the first thing I'd push over the side.

The Culture problem is not so simple, I think, because the Scions are supposed to be very aggressive culturally. They should threaten cultural victory.... just have to make sure it's not too much of a threat.

 

[Tarquelne]

Example - Emperor's mark. If you wanted his cities to get free culture, give him the creative trait and drop one of the others. At the moment, this is just a cheap way of giving him a fifth trait (because lets face it, who actually finds the double production speed of monuments and carnivals (which need a guild now) useful? )

You might want to keep in mind that the Scions may have entered FF as one big lump but the civ was actually grown over time. The Emperor used to have Creative, the Mark was put in instead at some point... time passed, other Traits were fiddled with for reasons of balance, or background, or just fun. The current set were introduced just as the Scions came into FF, IIRC. It's been a long time since the Emperor's Mark was mentioned or I really thought about it.

Nobody sat down and plotted out how to give the Emperor as many traits as possible, "cheaply" or otherwise. I appreciate that you might marvel at the silliness of the design at times, but please try to be patient.

(Previous post given a "sum up" edit - I think my point was obscure.)

 

[MaxAstro]

From a gameplay perspective, I would really be inclined to say drop Arcane. Ever since Korinna lost her good spellcasting abilities, I've never been really tempted to go down the arcane path. All the Emperor's really needed stuff is on other paths, and Alcinus is a joke because of how unreliable he is. Also, I find charismatic REALLY useful. The early happy boost is nice, and the reduced XP costs help with the relatively small number of units I usually have.

The Emperor's Mark is very flavorful, but also fairly powerful. The other thing that really seems to help the Scions is their ability to start the game with two cities. That can't really be helped due to how their spawn mechanics work, but it does give them a very strong edge.

 

[Methuselah]

Nobody sat down and plotted out how to give the Emperor as many traits as possible, "cheaply" or otherwise. I appreciate that you might marvel at the silliness of the design at times, but please try to be patient.

So that's why you haven't set the civ trait to fallow then?

 

[Tarquelne]

So that's why you haven't set the civ trait to fallow then?

Now I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[MaxAstro]

Oh, I do. He means the new "civ trait" mechanic used for things like Fallow, Sprawling, and Horselord, that assigns a trait to an entire civ. That way any leader selected for that civ will be assigned that trait automatically.