xienwolf
Deity
Never played Exalted, but loved the artwork and combat maneuvers when i browsed the book a few dozen times over the years 
Scions documentation
- Thread starter Tarquelne
- Start date
sable_twilight
Chieftain
Fun system. Seeing what's been done with FFH and FF makes me wish I knew enough about moding to do an Exalted variant.
If you really wanted to expand Scion, check out the 2nd ed Abyssals. Two elements that might work well with Scion:
Cult of the Dead - For the Scion, it would give bonuses to recruiting Reborn from nations who have adopted it. For non-Scion, minor bonus for Haunted Lands and Death mana or benefits to research as the beloved and honored dead ancestors whisper secrets from the beyond, though that all might mirror Ashen Veil a little too much. Or make it required to open up research into Necrotech.
Necrotech - the use of the dead for machines, artifacts, tools, weapons of war, etc.
If you really wanted to expand Scion, check out the 2nd ed Abyssals. Two elements that might work well with Scion:
Cult of the Dead - For the Scion, it would give bonuses to recruiting Reborn from nations who have adopted it. For non-Scion, minor bonus for Haunted Lands and Death mana or benefits to research as the beloved and honored dead ancestors whisper secrets from the beyond, though that all might mirror Ashen Veil a little too much. Or make it required to open up research into Necrotech.
Necrotech - the use of the dead for machines, artifacts, tools, weapons of war, etc.
The Scions are highly addictive, kept me low on sleep for a week now
However... is it possible that there's a problem with legates "capturing" reborns? I almost never get a reborn out of a fight.
In a previous game, I had 4 priest units each ~120 XP and all I ever got from them were 2 reborns during the entire game. Now, in a new game, it seems to be the same.
I used the world editor to experiment a bit: slaying ~40 goblins and ~40 scouts (AI-civ) did not get me any reborn at all. So much about 20% chance.
If it's not a bug, am I missing something? An important tech, promotion, national building...?
Please help...
However... is it possible that there's a problem with legates "capturing" reborns? I almost never get a reborn out of a fight.
In a previous game, I had 4 priest units each ~120 XP and all I ever got from them were 2 reborns during the entire game. Now, in a new game, it seems to be the same.
I used the world editor to experiment a bit: slaying ~40 goblins and ~40 scouts (AI-civ) did not get me any reborn at all. So much about 20% chance.
If it's not a bug, am I missing something? An important tech, promotion, national building...?
Please help...
JayThomas
Warlord
The Scions are highly addictive, kept me low on sleep for a week now
However... is it possible that there's a problem with legates "capturing" reborns? I almost never get a reborn out of a fight.
In a previous game, I had 4 priest units each ~120 XP and all I ever got from them were 2 reborns during the entire game. Now, in a new game, it seems to be the same.
I used the world editor to experiment a bit: slaying ~40 goblins and ~40 scouts (AI-civ) did not get me any reborn at all. So much about 20% chance.
If it's not a bug, am I missing something? An important tech, promotion, national building...?
Please help...
This is a known mishap. The logic was inverted by mistake and will be fixed in the next update.
Likewise, I've been playing the Scions exclusively. In fact, I haven't even dl'd FFH2 ver 4.0 yet. Gonna wait till the FF guys update thier mod for the latest FFH2.
xienwolf
Deity
You ought to download 040 now, as you will probably need to have it installed before installing FF (to snag the artwork mostly), and playing Scenarios REQUIRES 040.
JayThomas
Warlord
It sounded like it was in the dll. So we will have to wait for the up-date.
Tarquelne
Follower of Tytalus
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2001
- Messages
- 3,718
So... now that a bunch of new players have tried the Scions out - What do you think of Heavy Formation and the HF Units (Axeman/Honored Band, Champion/Principes, Royal Guard/Praetorian, Phalanx)?
Currently the version for the next release is:
+10% combat
10 collateral damage protection (added)
Move discount of -1
+1 support cost (changed from straight +1 gold cost)
Can't get Mobility.
The HF units have resource-based discounts available. IIRC they're generally a little more expensive than their equivilents without any of the resources, a little cheaper with.
That's *supposed* to happen is that you want some around, but they're too expensive to spam.
Currently the version for the next release is:
+10% combat
10 collateral damage protection (added)
Move discount of -1
+1 support cost (changed from straight +1 gold cost)
Can't get Mobility.
The HF units have resource-based discounts available. IIRC they're generally a little more expensive than their equivilents without any of the resources, a little cheaper with.
That's *supposed* to happen is that you want some around, but they're too expensive to spam.
Heavy formation grants little and takes a lot. Without mobilityI (which would mean extra 3 movement on road) you cant get theese units where you need them in time (ia: a turn late to garrison a city with an adjacent enemy stack of mounted units)
Also, what are the effects of the movement discount?
Also, what are the effects of the movement discount?
Arctic Circle
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2008
- Messages
- 473
Can you explain to me again why I sometimes can raise a city to population 8 with Awakened and sometimes only to 4 .. the value varies .. by using 'add to city'?
Tarquelne
Follower of Tytalus
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2001
- Messages
- 3,718
It should be because of the happiness limit - the 'add to city' spell won't work if it'd make the city unhappy. ATM I can't think of any other intentional limitations placed on the ability.
Arctic Circle
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2008
- Messages
- 473
Ah, cool. Thank you.
I'm not terribly fond of it - I mean, I like the flavor, tougher and more expensive units that move slower fit well with the overall "defensive/economic" theme of the Scions. It just seems like very little benefit for a lot of cost - keep in mind that along with no mobility, they do not benefit from haste as well, permanently trapped at 1 movement. I wouldn't mind this at all, again it fits the theme, if these guys were bad-asses once they finally arrived - but they're really not much more powerful than the units they replace, and they're costing you more gold meanwhile. I'd like them better if the additional support cost was removed (they're undeads, they don't need food..), or if they were noticeably stronger in combat, or if they started with "march"+"medic" or "implacable" to keep them moving when on the offensive and tougher to wear down when defending.
Edit: That is to say, I don't like the heavy promotion - I do like the Honored Bands themselves, headless along with the anti-archery bonus is an interesting tradeoff when compared to normal axeman. The principes.. it's frustrating that my experienced honored bands, the first wave of any city attack, are stuck with headless when I upgrade them to principes, yet new principes I build for defensive purposes need to gain some levels and waste a promotion on headless. It's the inconsistency that's irritating - I'd like them much better if, for example, all principes started as 7/5 with the headless promotion (so 6/6+10% whether you build them new or upgrade them). In fact if they were changed like that, I wouldn't even mind the costliness of the heavy promotion.
Tarquelne
Follower of Tytalus
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2001
- Messages
- 3,718
That's three of us - Unless persuaded otherwise I'll be giving the Promotion some sort of boost.
Anyone have thoughts on the promotion getting back the -10% penalty with forest/jungle Features? A new tag would allow for a help window without a bunch of redundant text.
Interesting - I'm happy to have the Headless HB but generally don't want my Principes to have it - not more than I'd upgrade from HB at least. (Note you can make a HB and then upgrade to Principes, resulting in a Headless Principes. A significant gold cost, though, which may be why you didn't mention it...)
If theres considerable support for it I could add the ability to add/remove heads - probably using the Equipment system. I like having the Honored Band be special that way, though. And well deserving Centeni, of course.
I think just increasing the stength bonus would be ok (+30%). Or also add immune to first strikes or heal while moving. I see theese guys as roman undead legionaires (*shiver*) with large shields and following a dense serpent/turtle formation, so immune to first strikes would be justified.
HadesScorn
Warlord
Personally, I'll be real sad to see the change of the additional cost. Flavor wise, I loved the progression.
-Paying the extra gold before combat with the living
-Paying the salary to the dead
Made balancing important, and most of all, prevented you from switching to Military civics to essentially cancel out the cost of these units. I'd prefer it left as is.
Immune to First Strikes is a good suggestion for upping the power.
-Paying the extra gold before combat with the living
-Paying the salary to the dead
Made balancing important, and most of all, prevented you from switching to Military civics to essentially cancel out the cost of these units. I'd prefer it left as is.
Immune to First Strikes is a good suggestion for upping the power.
Are there any plans to adapt Heavy Formation to the changes to chariots and knights?
I think splitting the current Heavy Formation into two promotions, one with the movement limitations and general penalties, and a new one, let's call it Elite, that grants +30% combat and +1 cost.
Upgraded Chariots would then lose Heavy Formation but retain Elite.
I think splitting the current Heavy Formation into two promotions, one with the movement limitations and general penalties, and a new one, let's call it Elite, that grants +30% combat and +1 cost.
Upgraded Chariots would then lose Heavy Formation but retain Elite.
sable_twilight
Chieftain
some issues I've run into playing the Scion:
Ghostwalkers will suddenly loose the ability to feed Creepers. I've not been able to figure out any consistent reason why they can feed one or two creepers then quit being able to.
If the chance to spawn an awakened drops into the negative range, building additional building that should bring it up simply make the chance drop further. Can the chance be set so there is always a minimum chance an awakened will spawn as long as population limit has not been reached?
And Ghostwalkers cannot be stopped making Haunted Lands once they've started.
Ghostwalkers will suddenly loose the ability to feed Creepers. I've not been able to figure out any consistent reason why they can feed one or two creepers then quit being able to.
If the chance to spawn an awakened drops into the negative range, building additional building that should bring it up simply make the chance drop further. Can the chance be set so there is always a minimum chance an awakened will spawn as long as population limit has not been reached?
And Ghostwalkers cannot be stopped making Haunted Lands once they've started.
Feeding Creepers costs some experience. Probably the walker doesn't have enough.
I'm guessing this happens late game. If so the offending line is probably:
Code:
iDecayMod = 111 - (iGTurn * iTurnMod)When (iGTurn * iTurnMod) > 111, iDecayMod becomes negative and the entire spawn chance is multiplied by a negative number.
A minimum chance would probably make sense, but in the mean time, pursue spawn boosters more aggressively. I think intention is that you should reach maximum spawn population before that happens.
