Scions documentation

[PPQ_Purple]

I like the idea about trade routes and the one about rituals. Here are my thoughts on the matter:

Rituals: Instead of having 2 repeatable rituals, Ritual 1 (cheap and weak) and ritual 2 (good one actualy), that would unbalance the game. I propose only having one ritual. This hovewer would be made so that it increases in cost each time you use it. So for a fictional example: 1st use - 400

, 2nd use - 550

, 3rd use - 750

, 4th use - 1000

...

So while they would start of as a cheap way of increasing your population. They would get more and more costly over time so that instead of relegating them to some weak cities, you would have to use your capitol or a smilary strong city for it.

 

[Iceciro]

Here's a question - there's a large thread on the FFH board regarding playing a No Settlers game. In a game like that, can the Scion Awakened/Reborn/Pilgrims still found cities? Or do they lose that ability?

 

[Valkrionn]

Here's a question - there's a large thread on the FFH board regarding playing a No Settlers game. In a game like that, can the Scion Awakened/Reborn/Pilgrims still found cities? Or do they lose that ability?

To be honest, I tried that once... Had no Awakened spawn. Never got far enough for reborn with a 1 pop city. Looks to me like any unit that can found a city is disabled by the option, though.

 

[Iceciro]

Bleh. That is significantly less cool than just having them have the ability to found a city disabled.

 

[Tarquelne]

I just tested an OCC game - got an Awakened, the ability to Found was disabled. This is with the latest "internal" version, but I don't think anything has changed in that regard for awhile. At some point I added some code to keep Awakened/Reborn from founding cities - I can't remember if it was pre or post FF integration.

EDIT: Oh "No Settlers"...
EDIT#2: Same result. (Popped Awakened on turns 6 and 14!)

 

[Iceciro]

Woot! The AI sprawl on the map I'm playing on is absolutely killing me, so I think my next game will be No Settlers.

It also doesn't hurt that Cassiel has built over nine thousand SCOUTS, despite having the ability to create Champion-level units.

 

[Tarquelne]

- Expand the number of luxury recources that impact reborn and/or awakening, though perhaps at a very small effect (2% increase in reborn production, or 0.25 increase for awakening, or something along those lines). It is very fun to try to work trade and conquest to aquire luxuries for your people, and I'm moderatly saddened when this phase ends and they are mosts aquired.

I forgot to mention:

More luxuries were added to the list for Awakened, and several numbers were changed. You can pick up an extra 1.5 from Fur, Incense and Pearl. OTOH, Cotton, Ivory and Gold are reduced in value by 0.5 each.

So Silk, Gems and Dye are the most valuable.
P. Artifacts are next at 0.75 - though arguably they're the best since you get +0.75 for each.
Cotton, Ivory, Gold, Fur, Incense, and Pearl are all 0.5.

Increasing the number of luxuries that help with True Pilgrims is a good idea. (I just added any mentioned above that weren't listed already. The bonus for each was reduced to 5%, except for Silk and Gems which each get 10% - so no change in the total bonus possible. (Though obviously you'll need friendly Lanun around to get it.)

 

[Tarquelne]

Woot! The AI sprawl on the map I'm playing on is absolutely killing me, so I think my next game will be No Settlers.

Maybe what Valk. meant is that you can't build Awakened - or Reborn. Not too bad on Awakened - you're going to want your capital for other stuff, I'd think. As for Reborn... hmm... IIRC Religious Law is one of the techs needed to get more Reborn when razing cities.

 

[Valkrionn]

Actually, at the time I played around 200 turns without getting a spawn. Maybe I was just unlucky, but this was also before the Scions were blocked for the Tower of Complacency, so quite a while back. More than possible that the code changed since then.

Edit: And I like the luxury changes, btw. Makes it easier to get a small bonus, while more difficult to achieve the max.

 

[Tarquelne]

Upcoming Reborn system: Kvetch now before it's too late!

No more True Pilgrims.
Reborn cost increased to 340.

Expanded list of luxuries that can discount build cost. 10 total, 5% each.

In addition to that you get 4 hammers/turn for every Open Borders agreement you've got. 6 hammers/turn if you're running God King. (This is thanks to Frankensteining a few lines of RFC python. Sort of a Frankensteinette.)

(Next project may be getting the bonus hammers/build times to display properly for Necropolis, Unhealthy Discontent, and Open Border modifers.)

but this was also before the Scions were blocked for the Tower of Complacency,

Ah, the good old days, back when every third post involved something abusive Korinna could do.

 

[Valkrionn]

Upcoming Reborn system: Kvetch now before it's too late!

No more True Pilgrims.
Reborn cost increased to 340.

Expanded list of luxuries that can discount build cost. 10 total, 5% each.

In addition to that you get 4 hammers/turn for every Open Borders agreement you've got. 6 hammers/turn if you're running God King.

(Next project may be getting the bonus hammers to display properly for Necropolis, Unhealthy Discontent, and Open Borders.)

Awesome. That actually scales nicely to map size... Bigger the map, the more open borders you can have and the more population you need. Maybe add an extra hammer for Foreign Trade?

 

[Iceciro]

Hmmm. Could we do it off Foreign Trade Routes to the city building the Reborn instead of OB? Having OB doesn't give me any incentive to go to the trade line or keep sustained peace, it just makes knocking out my neighbors more of a pain in the butt. Especially considering the wonderful things Esus can do.

Is it not possible to read foreign trade route commerce for the hammer buff? That'd reward both number and sustained peace as well as OB.

 

[Tarquelne]

Is it not possible to read foreign trade route commerce for the hammer buff? That'd reward both number and sustained peace as well as OB.

Maybe... It's complicated by needing to do it only for 1 unit. I was able to put in the OB thing because I could look at code used in RFC.

 

[Iceciro]

Mmmm. I tend to not open borders much with the Scions. Sort of "you can have trade, but you can't see my Haunted Lands."

 

[Tarquelne]

Mmmm. I tend to not open borders much with the Scions. Sort of "you can have trade, but you can't see my Haunted Lands."

Aren't Open Borders a prerequisite for foreign trade routes?

 

[Tarquelne]

Maybe add an extra hammer for Foreign Trade?

Or -1 if you don't have FT.

A FT modifier makes a lot of sense - I'll throw one in after getting feedback on the current figures. (And, due to UI issues, the system might be significantly changed anyway.)

 

[Darksaber1]

No more True Pilgrims.

Well, they didn't last very long.

 

[Tarquelne]

Well, they didn't last very long.

Ooo, last kvetch. The system changed again.

The Necropolis resources bonus, the Reborn Open Borders bonus and Unhealthy Discontent (to a lesser extent) are all now handled much like Dwarven Vaults: Buildings appear/disappear from cities at the beginning of the turn. They clearlyl show the state of your bonus or penalty.

Open Borders - 7 levels of bonus from +3 to +25. GK counts as an extra Open Border. (This is less than the previous system, but a per turn hammer bonus can really add up.)

Necropolis - Bonus starts with +3 for at least 4 health resources, and goes up to +10 for 9 or more. (At the last two levels you also get an extra xp or two for Arcane units.)

Unhealthy Discontent - 2 levels (3-4 UnHealth and 5 or more, IIRC.) There's unhappiness, a gold cost, and a % hammer penalty.

 

[Valkrionn]

Wow, that works nicely. Can't wait to see it in action.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

Mmmm. I tend to not open borders much with the Scions. Sort of "you can have trade, but you can't see my Haunted Lands."

I surerly agree with that. 90% of the time, the AI I sign open borders with, after scouting my territory, attack me. So, I prefer sticking to my internal economy. Too pitty Scions do not have a decent Money Changer...