Second Presidental Debate thread

[LLXerxes]

especially when kerry started stammering...that was priceless.

only once.
obviously you weren't in the begining
"Mr President, 1 minute 30 seconds"
"Well, er, umph..."

BTW, those weren't jokes

 

[Milan's Warrior]

Bush just blamed the defecit on the recession

This is one of the most stupid thing I have heard, tax revenues have remained substantially unchanged (if you exclude those lost for his tax cut).
It is his completely mad spending that drove the deficit and the debt up

 

[Azadre]

Kerry won. w00t.

 

[Mauer]

I think both of them used a fair amount of rhetoric, but for being "on trial" Bush defended himself by actually putting Kerry "on trial"

Democrats in general,specifically have accused Bush of not moving science ahead. This is actually on the contrary. He is pushing for, with abounding evidence for the better, adult stem cell research. While still including some embryonic stem cell research (and govt funded at that). Actually Bush has not outlawed embryonic stem cell research, only govt funded. The money IS in the private sector, and can be used better by it.

 

[Mauer]

This is one of the most stupid thing I have heard, tax revenues have remained substantially unchanged (if you exclude those lost for his tax cut).
It is his completely mad spending that drove the deficit and the debt up

and where exactly has that spending been? I believe that massive upgrades in the level of security throughout an entire nation, while persuing a worldwide terrorist threat does cost money. And alot at that.

 

[jack merchant]

I tried to watch this with nonpartisan glasses on, but I just couldn't. So while Bush probably did well, I thought Kerry simply was the better-informed candidate, better at laying out specific plans and more forceful in his criticisms of the president. I also think a lot of Bush's comments wouldn't survive a fact check.

But like I said, I'm not exactly neutral here.

 

[Elgalad]

You know, I don't think anyone would ever confuse me with being a pacifist.. and yet there's something very unsettling to me about the frequency with which Kerry keeps bringing up this statement, "I will find the terrorists and I will kill them, I will find the terrorists and I will kill them, I will.."



Is this Carville's advice on how to appear macho? I'm so confused.. If he really Means this sentiment, then why does he have to keep repeating this same mantra over and over and over? Shouldn't once be enough? Frankly, after the first time he said it last week, every successive repetition only makes him less and less convincing in my opinion.

On the same note, however, I do not like the President constantly repeating the phrase, "Wrong War, Wrong Place, Wrong Time". We got That the first time as well. There are countless ways to refer to Kerry's ever-shifting stances without flogging a tired old quote like that one. Using the exact same example doesn't improve the case, it just makes him sound like a broken record.

Both of these gentlemen need to come up with some new catchphrases in the next week or I (and possibly many others?) will be fast asleep on November 2.





-Elgalad

 

[Milan's Warrior]

notice how Kerry is emphasizing EMBRYONIC stem cells, Bush is pushing for adult stem cell, which has been proven to be more plausible

Not true.
At the moment most results come from adult stem cells because there is a vast supply of them and a lot of researchers working on them, while Bush severely restricted the number of embrionic stem cell lines available for study.
If embrionic stems cells were as available as adult stem cells it is reasonable to assume that research would go much faster.

 

[Milan's Warrior]

I guess "his" god/beliefs is/are only important if he doesn't have to apply it

Nice god is the one that prefers to keep a buch of cells frozen forever than to discover cures for hundreds of thousands of people

 

[Elgalad]

Did notice something curious during this debate.. haven't Lefty Politicos gotten over their deathly fear of the "L" word? I noticed Kerry was deeply offended at one point when he was responding to Bush naming him the "most Liberal Senator in Congress". He sure doesn't like that title, does he? Why is that?

Aren't you liberals proud of the title? I get that impression, usually ~ liberals stand for all the good things (pro-choice on demand, anti-war, increasing taxes and spending) And yet Democratic politicians hear the word "Liberal" and run screaming.





Oh wait! Um.. Kerry Did say that he was respectful of pro-life voters' feelings (he was an altar boy!), and he Did intend to finish the war in Iraq (he's a War Hero with 3 Purple Hearts!) and he Was for removing Saddam from power (by God he'll hunt down and KIIIIILLLL those terrorists), and he Would lower taxes for the middle class..

Oooooooooops.

-Elgalad

 

[Xiahou-Dun]

I think Kerry lost this debate the minute the stem cell question got asked. He freaked out -- and with good reason. All the states that Kerry needs to take away from Bush to win are socially conservative.

I have to agree this (Stem Cell) seemed to throw Kerry. I would say Bush did a lot better than last time, but call it more of a tie. I don't see Kerry getting any bump or decline. The way it is covered in the press over the next couple of days though might prove me wrong. I would expect *some* in the press to build it as a Bush win so debate number 3 looks like a great event to watch.

Round one Kerry
Round two Bush

Stay tuned for the final folks.

 

[CivCube]

Oh wait! Um.. Kerry Did say that he was respectful of pro-life voters' feelings (he was an altar boy!), and he Did intend to finish the war in Iraq (he's a War Hero with 3 Purple Hearts!) and he Was for removing Saddam from power (by God he'll hunt down and KIIIIILLLL those terrorists), and he Would lower taxes for the middle class..

Oooooooooops.

-Elgalad

Those aren't conservative sentiments. How can you say being respectful of pro-life voters' feelings is anathema to a political viewpoint? Last time I checked, a general sympathy for human life wasn't solely Republican.

He would lower taxes for the middle class but also remove the tax cut from those who make over $200,000. This is where most of the Bush tax cuts have been going, IIRC; someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Elgalad]

Aw, CivCube, I wasn't really serious with the suggestion that Kerry is pro-life, pro-war, or fiscally conservative.

Just having a little fun spindoctoring the postgame because that debate Really was boring. I wasn't impressed with either candidate, frankly. I thought Bush did much better than the first one (more knowledgable, less uncertain), but Kerry did better as well (less scripted, more human). I'd call it a tie again, but I was really hoping this debate would tilt things one way or the other.

Those are my impressions, of course. And I have no idea what the talking heads are saying about who won because I turned them off.. they were even More boring than Bush and Kerry.

Well, we have got one more to go.. ASU will (hopefully!) make a difference. Gonna keep my fingers crossed.


-Elgalad

 

[King PJ]

Bush did alot better job this time than last. It was a very close debate, but I'm giving Bush the win. I'm what you call a "swing voter" so to speak. I was voting for Bush simply because I didn't know anything about Kerry until these debates. Now I'm not sure. What Bush said about protecting us from drugs from Canada makes sense, but it has been 4 years and we still dont know if the drugs are safe? The idea that Kerrys vote against the money for the military prior to the invasion of Iraq just being a protest vote is absurd. For him to vote against supplies and and then explain it away just doesn't cut it. What am I going to do when Nov 2nd gets here? Niether canidate sounds good for this country. Am I going to draw straws? Or maybe I'll flip a coin? Should I vote for a 3rd party even though I know that a 3rd party doesn't have a chance of winning? Voting for someone I don't support just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I will just flip a coin...

 

[CivCube]

Aw, CivCube, I wasn't really serious with the suggestion that Kerry is pro-life, pro-war, or fiscally conservative.

Oh, good. I guess I'm not as skilled at detecting sarcasm online as some are.

*still gets a private rimshot for the night*

 

[Elgalad]

Now I'm not sure. What Bush said about protecting us from drugs from Canada makes sense, but it has been 4 years and we still dont know if the drugs are safe?

This story just came out yesterday or today (though it is an expansion on earlier reports of failures at the Chiron corporation in England) and it is an example of the problems we face in importing drugs from other countries. I'm not using these links to suggest that Canada or the UK has lower health care standards by any means, just to outline the notion that we need more safeguards in place to prevent potential disasters if we fail to guarantee medical product safety...

BBC

USA Today

Contaminated vaccines are No joke. Imagine what would have happened, had this batch been delivered and adminstered. The reports claim the products "did not meet the sterility requirements" But what if that is only the standard line they use to prevent panic? What if the situation was actually Worse than they are suggesting? Not trying to create panic here, of course, chances are certainly that the vaccines were just spoiled by failure to adhere to the proper storage/transmission procedures. But what IF a terrorist had somehow managed to get into the company and.. you get the idea.

It really does open up one's eyes to the fact that our present and future societies have become very different places since the war on Terror began. New safeguards have Got to be in place before we can start opening the floodgates of medical/pharmaceutical imports. To think otherwise could be catastrophic.


-Elgalad

 

[stratego]

Bush was definitely the better of the two comedians. Did you notice how the woman in the back just couldn't stop laughing after he stood up and said "I own a timber company, heh heh heh (silence)"
Bush did make a good case with the quote "The war on terror doesn't just stop with Osama Bin Laden"
However, he kept criticising Kerry on things that has already been refuted.
-Kerry voted against that proposal to fund the troops because a third of that money would go directly to Haliburton.
-He kept saying that Kerry will raise taxes, while Kerry admitted he will raise taxes.
-He said Kerry voted 98 times for higher taxes, but Kerry voted 600 times for lowering taxes.

 

[Sarevok]

Bush was offed in this one. This was a disaster for the Republicans. It looks like I am now for Kerry rather than my long stance of Apathy.

 

[Speedo]

Yes you do. If enough Americans want quality over show you'll get it.

There is an old phrase "Every nation gets the leader it deserves". Your attitude is one of a person already defeated. There is no need to only have 2 parties. As soon as the "If I don't vote for 1 of the 2 my vote is lost" mentallity is gone; more -and thus better- candidates will be electable.

I remember reading that somewhat around 80% of voters vote a straight party ticket, or nearly so. That's probably fairly accurate, and it should give you some idea of what you're fighting against.

This is a sign he doesn't understand what is said. I think this is a very clear signal Bush is only "repeating what he has heard" instead of knowing and understanding what is happening.

I think Bush isn't as dumb as people like to laugh about. Underestimating him is a very foolish thing to do.

 

[Sanaz]

This was another Kerry win, by a wide margin but not nearly as much as the first one. It was pretty funny when Bush forgot he was part owner of a timber company, and he tried to make it look like Kerry was the goofy one with his "do you want some wood?" comment. The man is just a fool, and it seems like he doesn't even know it. He reminds me of Joe Average down the street, who has contempt for those "educated folks" with their "fancy words" and "bright ideas". But, even though he basically said the same things over and over again, at least he got his thoughts out in mostly the right order, and actually answered most of the questions he was asked, which is why it wasn't completely lopsided again. Kerry was still quite a bit better than Bush, but he probably won't get another big jump in the polls from this one.