Self Made Billionaire: Myth or Reality?

[Sommerswerd]

I'd switched units because you'd disputed the original $2 spent to purchase the lottery ticket.

I don't understand what you mean. I wasn't intending to dispute the original $2 for the lottery ticket. I was assuming that was the price for it. That's the going rate for them AFAIK and what I based my estimate on the number of cans needed on.

But also, the same process that makes a billion dollars undeserved can make a million dollars undeserved. Or $2 undeserved.

I agree, and I'm glad you said that because I was getting ready to say exactly the same thing. To expound on your point... it goes both ways... if we get to say that the cashtronauts don't deserve their spaceships because they aren't the ones doing the actual work that creates the billions of dollars, or that the Wall street folks don't really create anything or do anything other than shuffle numbers around, so they don't deserve their immense wealth, then we can equally scrutinize the can collector's actual inputs to determine whether we think he deserves all that money. I'm sure Bezos put in more "work" in a given year than our heroic intrepid half-hour recycler-turned billionaire. You can argue that he did "something", but certainly not enough actual substantive activity to deserve a billion dollars. So I'll add that I agree that this discussion need not be limited to a billion dollars at all, because you are correct that the same concept applies regardless of the amount of money in question. I'll have to circle back and read your last post, because you gave me some other real food for thought on this same topic.

 

[Sommerswerd]

We can all have our own definition of “self-made” and whatever the opposite is, and it can be fluid based on whatever factors we choose.

I couldn't agree more, except... I actually could agree more and I do agree more... in the sense that. It's not just that we can all have our own definition. We do all have our own definition, and its not just that it can be fluid based on whatever factors we choose... It is fluid based on whatever factors we choose. That's precisely why the term is meaningless. That's part of the point I've been making.

As for your scoring system. When I think about it, I immediately thought about what you are actually scoring... its wealth merit, essentially who's wealth deserves a higher score than others. So its back to "deserve" even when you don't want it to be about that. It is about that, and turning it into a numbers game does not change that, it just obscures it.

 

[amadeus]

Everything is inherently without meaning, we just have to construct our own... or pretend to.

In a hundred years we went from poison gas in the fields of France to this:

@Sommerswerd maybe I’m not cut out for the billionaire life.

 

[Farm Boy]

? 60+% of college students* are women, they're far less likely to end up in jail (or if they do they get less time for the same crime) or commit suicide. What's their "indisputable inherent disadvantage" exactly?

God Money. If you measure the deity really simplemindedly. Like a show about butts or something*. Either way, it takes a society to prop up that sort of thing.

*

 

[Sommerswerd]

Yeah. Still. Even drugs don't help explain this one.

You should watch more Snoop Dogg videos then.

If you measure the deity really simplemindedly.

Is there any other way? Well I guess there's "arrogantly"... but that's pretty much it.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Everything is inherently without meaning, we just have to construct our own... or pretend to..

Its the opposite. Everything inherently has a meaning, a cause and an effect. Its only when we have acheived enough decadence to sit and ponder away, that we are able to construct "meaningless" out of existence. I guarantee you that a wolf knows exactly why he ate that rabbit, and the rabbits know exactly why they ran from the wolf. Their lives are nothing but meaning. Everything they do is for a reason. They don't have time to ponder the "meaninglessness of everything".

@Sommerswerd maybe I’m not cut out for the billionaire life.

Correct. If you were, you'd be living it.

 

[Farm Boy]

Is there any other way? Well I guess there's "arrogantly"... but that's pretty much it.

Nah. That god has currency conversion and all sorts of scriptures. It's a complicated monster of a thing.

Could go by who spends the thing, I guess. That might lack a sort of pretense?

 

[amadeus]

Its the opposite. Everything inherently has a meaning, a cause and an effect. Its only when we have acheived enough decadence to sit and ponder away, that we are able to construct "meaningless" out of existence. I guarantee you that a wolf knows exactly why he ate that rabbit, and the rabbits know exactly why they ran from the wolf. Their lives are nothing but meaning. Everything they do is for a reason. They don't have time to ponder the "meaninglessness of everything".

Does a tree have meaning? Trees grow and shrink and adapt to their environment. I don’t think an action in itself implies anything beyond action.

I disagree for the opposite, that meaning is constructed as a luxury.

At the moment I’m kind of void of luxury.

Maybe the billionaire life is for me! I’d get a big corner office with a fancy desk and just do nothing. Make phone calls to people. Have secretaries write memos. Faxes, telexes, telegrams, holograms. A very busy office with lots to do and nothing to do at the same time. Would it have meaning? I don’t know!

 

[Sommerswerd]

Does a tree have meaning?

Yes. Absolutely. The trees don't have any trouble finding their purpose, you do. But that doesn't have any impact on the trees' meaning. The trees do just fine fulfilling their meaning.

Maybe the billionaire life is for me! I’d get a big corner office with a fancy desk and just do nothing. Make phone calls to people. Have secretaries write memos. Faxes, telexes, telegrams, holograms. A very busy office with lots to do and nothing to do at the same time.

With that attitude I don't know if you will make it, but good luck. It seems to me like a billionaire would have more concrete goals than "look busy without doing anything"... goal like, for example... "make the next billion dollars".

Would it have meaning? I don’t know!

The fact that you don't know is a construct, a luxury... a luxury that wolves, for example, don't have.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Haven't noticed this. People love to talk about Will Smith, JZ, even 50c being "self made".

Very telling that the 3 black people you named are rappers.

Rags to riches (via strength, cunning & hard work) is perhaps the most dominant theme in rap music (getting them hoes being a close 2nd).

The "most dominant theme in rap music" that YOU listen to. Which demonstrates your level of experience with rap music. Also very telling.

What's their "indisputable inherent disadvantage" exactly?

Of women? If you don't know, nothing I say about it is going to help you. Ask your wife.

 

[amadeus]

It seems to me like a billionaire would have more concrete goals than "look busy without doing anything"... goal like, for example... "make the next billion dollars".

I would want it to be a work of art. Its reception, I am indifferent—whether it is good, bad, interesting, or banal. It is to satisfy me even when it doesn’t make money, which may be the ultimate expression of greed.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Nah. That god has currency conversion and all sorts of scriptures. It's a complicated monster of a thing.

Could go by who spends the thing, I guess. That might lack a sort of pretense?

Ah, Mammon the almighty, praised be... look upon his works ye mighty and despair.

But if blue team has all his blessings and blue team likes uuge... trracts o'land... then lovely, uuge trracts o'land it is, no?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Which step in the process was 'unfair', such that the outcome is not deserved? Which step would require intervention by society to prevent? Which step can someone step in and just take the money and it not really be theft, because it wasn't deserved in the first place?

You are conflating my position with my criticism of someone else's position. I never made "fairness" at issue in my position. My word was "deserve". And so the answer is easily the lotto. He didn't deserve the lotto winnings. Sure he possessed the money and he is entitled to the money, (just as much as Musk and Bezos are entitled to their spaceships) but he does not "deserve" it.

But I object to the denigration of 'can collecting'. The protagonist was paid by society to clean up litter (which I'd specified). It's not a 'hand out', any more than garbage collectors are getting a handout. It's a paid civil service.

I apologize for offending your fragile sensibilities . But you are only partially right. The "pay" is not specifically just to incentivize litter clean up by private individuals, it is also to dis-incentivize litter, by giving the trash aluminum value, to the folks who actually buy the cans in the first place.

Winning a lottery contest is 'lucky', but if we're going to say someone doesn't deserve because there's a luck component, then the entire exercise is moot. Once we allow or disallow luck, then it's just a question of 'how much luck'.

I agree, and I will just state that my tentative feeling is that winning lotto is "too much luck" to be classified as "deserve".

 

[Narz]

Very telling that the 3 black people you named are rappers.

Telling what? I could've named Obama or Oprah or Colin Powell but rappers embody the "self made man" mythos better.

The "most dominant theme in rap music" that YOU listen to.

I meant mainstream rap.

I do listen to some stuff like that, of course, I feel like it's become kinda tounge in cheek for some rappers which makes it fun.

Which demonstrates your level of experience with rap music. Also very telling.

Probably been listening to rap since before you were born. The only telling is what you keep telling yourself.

Of women? If you don't know, nothing I say about it is going to help you.

Don't need your help, just curious as to your justifications for what you're saying. Lots of people say lots of things without really thinking about what they mean.

Ask your wife.

Not married.

 

[Farm Boy]

Ah, Mammon the almighty, praised be... look upon his works ye mighty and despair.

But if blue team has all his blessings and blue team likes uuge... trracts o'land... then lovely, uuge trracts o'land it is, no?

Red team has the same exact idol gods.

Either they're both **** teams with **** gods or they're the same team, which seems more likely. **** people aren't hard to find. Hell, been past a mirror twice this morning. Calling the school again today to talk with some more of my favorites of that flavor.

"Go ask a woman about empowerment and money" would have been more interesting about a year ago, but I think the answer is more useful in the now. Would you not say? Either way, aside from the simple idol rather than the complicated one, I call horse**** on the assertion.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I could've named Obama or Oprah or Colin Powell

But you didn't.

rappers embody the "self made man" mythos better.

No, they don't, but the fact that you think they do is telling.

I meant mainstream rap.

Of course you did, because what else could you have meant? You're still wrong.

Probably been listening to rap since before you were born.

I'm older than my avatar (the actor, not the character) so that's both unlikely and irrelevant.

Not married.

You don't say. Fascinating. "since before you were born" you said?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Red team has the same exact idol gods.

Either they're both **** teams with **** gods or they're the same team, which seems more likely. **** people aren't hard to find. Hell, been past a mirror twice this morning. Calling the school again today to talk with some more of my favorites of that flavor.

"Go ask a woman about empowerment and money" would have been more interesting about a year ago, but I think the answer is more useful in the now. Would you not say? Either way, aside from the simple idol rather than the complicated one, I call horse**** on the assertion.

There's a reason they are the ones you talk to when you call a school, which goes back to the original premise.

And yeah its the same team. Its always been the same team. And its always been **** gods. There's only been varying degrees of recognition of it.

 

[Farm Boy]

Naw. There are people with fundamentally different deities. They might recognize it best of all. Stretch goals.

 

[El_Machinae]

I agree, and I will just state that my tentative feeling is that winning lotto is "too much luck" to be classified as "deserve".

The lotto winnings are compiled by people buying a ticket, hoping to win. Interestingly, if I don't deserve to win, then that's true of every player that built the pot. And no one does. They all built the pot, and they all deserve to lose.


But the ratio of luck is going to be confusing. Kardashian inherited looks. Maybe not one in a million, but definitely more than one in a hundred (none of my brothers are even close to having her booty)

If I play Russian Roulette with a hostage, whether I deserve a murder charge is based on luck.

But you'd also said that actively trading crypto didn't accumulate deserved wealth. Was it because of the actively discouraging people to buy and merely predicting trends well? Kardashians encouraged people to appreciate something arbitrary. Pimping crypto would be like pimping a look?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Naw. There are people with fundamentally different deities. They might recognize it best of all. Stretch goals.

I said "gods", that includes them all, even the football gods.