Sengir01 - Spying with a vengeance

Hope everything works out, Sengir. It's always a pain when unexpected things like that happen. See you back soon.
 
Open the save in 3.19 and take a good look around. We're in pretty good shape, lots of spies, units, workers, cities, more than somebody could wish for if he wants to play his set during his lunchbreak! Good thing spanish lunchbreaks are quite long! :D

We revolt to mercantilism and I get the awful job of reassigning to spy specialists in all cities. The governors seem to prefer engineers. Some cities don't have specialist slots though, so they get a citizen specialist for free.

I notice Saladin has 1 ivory source while we don't. Instead of crudely demanding it we offer a spare silk for it, we are buddies after all.

I also notice Sally has military tradition and I ask nicely for it, but he won't part with it. Oh well, Gandhi has it as well and we have an awful lot of spies in his cities, so we succesfully got it by other means.
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Hit enter and the set starts out rather peacefully. We basically continue to build units and some infra. Hardest part is to find useful things to do for our workers. They build cottages as far as the eye can see and as suggested by Whosit they lay down more roads.

T337 Gandhi demands Divine Right. Couldn't care less if he got it, but of course we don't give anything away for free. Alex finishes the UoS and next turn we get some cash as we had it in the queue somewhere.

T339 Monty finishes Angkor. Good for him.

T341 One of our many cows drops his dung too close to the ventilator. Well, it's a greek cow actually. Alex has declared and the war horns keep on sounding with greek and german vassals declaring on eachother and on Alex and us of course. The peaceful relations picture suddenly has coloured red.
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I check to see if Gilgamesh wants to join the party but he doesn't like us enough he says. More for us to plunder, we think.

The apostolic palace has been built by Gandhi and is jewish. A vote comes up for leader and Gandhi is the only option, so we vote for him, if only to get something in green on our diplo with him. He would've won anyway, of course.

Same turn Saladin has finished Constitution. A first spy in Bagdad with a 50% discount fails, with a success probability of 79%. However, a second spy with only 40% discount is successfull with a probability of 98%. Does probability increase if you first fail? The inner workings of those probabilities remain a mystery to me.
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Anyway, we're at war and the interturn sees zillions of units moving around the screen, a bit of a pain that we can see nearly all cities on earth! :) The main stack of Alex comes from former Indian lands of course and we got our troops concentrated there as well. However, the past turns I've been sending some reinforcements to the Korean border and also to Cuman, to make a swift move for Ephesus in case Alex declared. So the plan is to defend former Viking cities from the onslaught of Alex' and to a lesser extent Gandhi's troops and counter once they have suicided, while pushing through to Ephesus which already had some spies in place.

T343 Sees the first success of the war with the capture of Ephesus. A spy brought disorder and the troops move in. It was only defended by 2 longbows and a knight, but we get rather horrendous luck with the RNG. It didn't help that there was no siege around, but I figured that sacrificing 3 units or so had to suffice, but in the end it were 6 or so, losing a mace at 80% and one at 95%. Well, we'll remember their names for generations to come (maceman 7 and maceman 8 or something :lol:), 'cause Ephesus looks like a decent city.
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The :smoke: part, however, was that Alex just finished education which I meant to steal from Ephesus where I actually had 3 spies. With all the excitement of being able to capture Ephesus I forgot to steal it before capturing :hammer2:. Well, sent a spy to the new greek border city of Argos, we're not in a hurry for education anyway.

Meanwhile Alex has move his SoD next to Bjorgvin, while some lone Indian intruders are dispatched with.

T344 I hand it off here as we just got a great artist in Frankfurt who can trigger a new GA with the scientist also there. And although spanish lunchbreaks are long, I had to get back to work. And write this report there :).
Units are left with movement. Pictured below the situation at Bjorgvin. Alex' stack is sizeable, but our defences as well. He has 3 cats and a treb and just started pounding the city defences, which were at 100%, so he'll be busy for a while if he wants to get them to 0 before attacking. However, attacking his SoD right now could be costly as well, maybe better let him suicide himself.
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A bit to the south there are Indians at the gates of Haithabu. Not that many, so Haithabu should be safe, although it must be noted that our macemen there have city raider promotions which obviously don't help much at defence. Maybe next player can get a couple of knights down from Bjorgvin, just in case. Didn't whip any unit yet, but that won't do harm if needed. Also be aware of units sneaking past Haithabu looking for Nidaros, I did kill a knight doing just that. Nidaros only has an axe for defence, though I sent 2 more units there who should arrive next turn. Mmm, I now notice that that Indian knight 3S of Haithabu can actually attack Nidaros in 1 turn, so next player should get an extra unit there (knight from bjorgvin, expansive pikeman whip, whatever).
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On the Korean front things are still rather quiet. One suicidal Kim Jong Il and that was all. In former Babylon we don't have enough units though to think about attacking.

So we can fire off a new GA, I suggest we do so, if only for increased unit production. We should discuss whether we want representation. That way we'll actually be actively researching, more so with the specialists from mercantilism. Hope you don't mind, but I fired the GA and revolted to representation after saving to see what the effect was. We'd get gunpowder in 10 turns... Can you spell curasier? I obviously can't :D.
 

Attachments

Not too bad for a lunch break!

Everything looks good.
We just need to dispose of Alex's stack and we will be able to take a few cities.
Don't forget that we can draft in those cities like Haitbathu and Bjorvin for some extra defenses.
Letting Alex suicide his stack may be the best course of action.

I agree with firing up the GA but I don't think that we should adopt Representation.
While it would be nice to tech Gunpowder in 10 we can also steal it in 11 from Saladin.
 
Can you spell curasier? I obviously can't :D.

Cuirassier, but only because I'm a stickler for spelling. :p

I've heard wonders about Spanish lunch breaks. Are they called siestas, or have I mixed that up with something else? I took Spanish in high school (though I hardly remember anything beyond "si") and I think that was mentioned. I couldn't imagine even getting a turn of Civ done in the 15 minute lunch breaks I'm used to!

Eeenyway, things sure got interesting. It's a shame that Gilgy is remaining neutral, but I didn't expect that we'd get him in the fight. I checked with him at the end of my set: He wouldn't become our vassal because he fears our enemies (Alex) and he wouldn't go to war with Alex for similar reasons (fears his military might). As our power is roughly equal to Alex's if I recall correctly, it seems unlikely that Alex could get Gilgamesh onto his side. It's a shame, though, 'cuz Gilgamesh has a power rating high enough that he could decisively tip the balance of power in our favor. Y'know, ignoring the fact that power ratings are fairly meaningless when you compare the tactical capabilities of humans and AI (well, except for extreme levels of power disparity). Still, it makes for good diplomatic fiction. Oh, right, I was supposed to be talking about your set!

Um, well, yay for Constitution! Boo for the war that makes it unwise to invest in Jails at this time. I'm a little on-the-fence about a revolt to Rep. Yeah, it would solidify our lead into, like, some kind of super-solid, but does it violate the spirit of the game even at this late stage? Or do we concoct some explanation, like, all of our spies have been trained to passively gather intel on new developments around the world?

Also, I now get to regret not making siege. I was only thinking about going on the offensive! :crazyeye: And even there we suffered due to the RNG (I mean, those losses were in the realm of possibility, but c'mon). Maybe whoever's next up (too lazy to check) can churn out some catapults really quick and try to hit Alex's main stack before it attacks. We could probably hold him off, doesn't look like he has enough siege to really harm our garrison, but no reason to chance it. We should [d]definitely[/b] use this war as an opportunity to "liberate" some of Gandhi's cities to alleviate the cultural pressure on Old Norseland.

It doesn't sound like we have enough troops for it, but if we could maintain the offensive in the west, as it sounds like most of Alex's troops are in the east, that could be good. I think we're generally gonna see some troop building and good ol' fashioned wrassling and whatnot. Oh, and let's keep an eye on our Vassals. I'm curious to see how much they contribute to our war effort, whether by drawing Greek ire or even taking some of his cities. Wouldn't it be a hoot if we could get Alex to capitulate? We'd have to hurt him a lot, I think, but I think we'd gain his vassals as our own?
 
From looking at the save it appears that Monty has a good chance of taking the city to the north of Ephesus.

Saladin had a stack near Knossos that had a shot but I think it got beat down.

Either way our vassals seem to be holding their own and spreading Alexs forces thin!
 
Don't forget that we can draft in those cities like Haitbathu and Bjorvin for some extra defenses.
I did forget that! What do we actually draft, pre-gunpowder? Macemen?

I agree with firing up the GA but I don't think that we should adopt Representation.
While it would be nice to tech Gunpowder in 10 we can also steal it in 11 from Saladin.
Hadn't noticed Sally researching gunpowder. If that takes about the same number of turns, it wouldn't be worth it, better switch to something else then. Still, question remains if it's in the spirit of the game or not, like Whosit says. Didn't Sengir somewhere in the beginning of the beginning say that we could start on something if nobody else has (I vaguely recall)?

Cuirassier, but only because I'm a stickler for spelling. :p
Me too usually, but I never heard the word outside a civ-related context so I pardon myself for not knowing how to spell that without looking it up. I may remember now...

I've heard wonders about Spanish lunch breaks. Are they called siestas, or have I mixed that up with something else? I took Spanish in high school (though I hardly remember anything beyond "si") and I think that was mentioned. I couldn't imagine even getting a turn of Civ done in the 15 minute lunch breaks I'm used to!
I guess you can say no in spanish as well... Siestas are the naps people used to take after lunch. A habit that is steadily losing ground, unfortunately. :)

Wouldn't it be a hoot if we could get Alex to capitulate? We'd have to hurt him a lot, I think, but I think we'd gain his vassals as our own?
Unless that changed in 3.19, a civ that has vassals can't vassalize to someone else. In P3-02 we had to bring down Mansa to 1 city status for his vassal Darius to break free. When that happened, finally both were willing to capitulate.
 
As already sayed multiple times before, looking good! :). We are making so many EP's that it's hard to figure out any good way to spend them!

Once Alex has made some stupid blunder and destroyed his SoD, and once Saladin and Monty do some damage to him, he will probably crumble like a tower or cards. Then it's just a matter of mopping him and his puny vassals out of the game. I'd be suprised if we see anything threathening from Gandhi's or Wang's side.
 
I was kind of counting that someone would "hang" onto that, but didn't expect it to be within minutes! ;)
 
Playing The Waiting Game

With this game reaching critical mass I won't bog down the report with lots of build queues and MM but I will run through the cities quickly.

I notice we aren't working the gems at Cologne so I fix that by swapping workers from a regular mine.

I start Essen in on a jail rather than a hindu temple.

Spies are sent to Saladin for Gunpowder, Wang for RepParts, and Alex for Econ.

I fired up the GA and swapped Slavery for Caste...for the +1 hammer from the workshops.
I doubt we will be whipping much anymore.

I also drafted two maces in Bjorvin and Haithabu for extra protection.

I cautiously press enter.

(1) 1625 AD

I lose a pike at 80% odds trying to kill a knight that moved deep into our territory.
Alex and Gandhi are just bombarding for the moment.

(2) 1630 AD

Monty manages to take the city of Pharsalos which is just north of our recently captured Ephesus. Good work vassal!

(3) 1630 AD

A lonely scout from Wang Kon wandering about in the middle of our empire is squashed.
You guys were right about nothing threatening from Wang...on all levels!

(4) 1635 AD

Finally after 4 turns of being seiged I get some action!
I have a small stack at Argos that should be enough to take the city.

First treb gets powned flawlessly.
Second treb goes flawless in victory!
Third and final treb wins easily.
The rest of the job is clean up and we take it down!

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(5) 1640 AD

Still waiting for Alex to finish sieging us...only losing 10% defense a turn.

(6) 1645 AD

This is the most unexciting war set that I have ever played.
I am just waiting for Alex and Gandhi to siege my defenses with their combined 5 siege weapons.

(7) 1650 AD

At least Wang will finish researching RepParts for us next turn.
Stealing is fun!

I realize that I can steal Education now.
I have a ton of spies in India so I steal there.
Love the 99% odds.

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(8) 1655 AD

I get excited when a Greek knight attacks Bjorvin.
False alarm...just the one attacker.

Just for fun I dial up Alex to see what the price of peace is.
250 gold...not bad but we can do better.

(9) 1660 AD

Finally it happens...it went pretty well.
Although I admit I should have promoted the knights that were sleeping to Combat II for greater protection.

We lost 2 longbows, one mace, 4 knights and one pikeman.

He had quite a few survivors and withdrawalers but they were easy to clean up.

One more turn left as I want to steal a couple of things and also leave on the last turn of the GA so we can switch civics if we would like.

(10) 1665 AD

Gandhi breaks free of Alex.
I look to see what he will offer in terms of peace.

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I think that we should take it and focus on crushing Alex now that his stack is gone.

I also steal Gunpowder from Saladin and Rep Parts from Wang.

We have a spy at Pataliputra that can steal Econ.
But we should discuss it first as it would obsolete our castles.

Sorry for the lack of pictures but I was trying to squeeze this set in as I won't have any more time for the rest of the weekend.

However, Alex is set up to be crushed.

I think we could pretty easily take out Alex and his Korean and Indian acquisitions and see how he likes that!

Roster
Whosit
nocho
sturick - just played
Meiz - up next
Sengir - autoskip
Norvin Green
 

Attachments

Got it and playing tomorrow. I like the sight of power chart :goodjob:

I'd say we take peace with Gandhi, to have one front less to "worry" about. Economics doesn't give big enough benefit to obsolete our castles, so we should avoid that at least for now.

Edit: On second thought, maybe we should take couple of cities from Gandhi and capitulate him?
 
I'd take the deal with Gandhi for now. We can deal with Alex one way or another, and 10 turns later we can declare on Gandhi if we like. Sad that we had so many losses defending our city, but it's certainly better than losing it.

No need to get Economics, either, I think.

I don't really have much else to say. It all seems straightforward from here on. Oh, and good job stomping on Alex a bit, sturick. I'm liking the look of the new "western front."
 
Can't take a look a the save, but if we can do some easy cherry picking of Gandhi we could do that before taking peace or capitulating him. However you see fit. :)

And let's delay economy, no need for it now anyway.
 
Preturn

I'm completely overwhelmed with the amount of cities we possess. What on earth should I do with all these? Then the plan came like a lightning from the sky.

Allright, first we sen a spy in Cuban Isolationists - thread...

I'm not sure I like the chances we get there (must be the distance in time or something), but well give it a shot.

Success and the spy is returned to our capital! Little tinkering here and there, and I present you:

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Well, that looks stupid enough, but it should serve it purpose. Yong men all around the Germany pick up musketeers and start to march towards the Greeks.

But not before we burn one of Gandhi's border cities. It was overlapping with every nearby city, so I didn't see much point on keeping it.

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And now we make peace.

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Come one Gandhi, don't look so sad. You're the one who started it anyway!

We also capture one small city from Alex, allthough the culture might be a bit of a problem there.

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Turn 1

Press enter and see a lot of hostile ants crawling everywere. Try to get some sense of that then...

What I did get sense is that Wang suicided his mini-SoD against Dur-Kuligalzu, killing one of our pikes in the process. That's about all we saw from him during the set.

Attack gained a GG for us, which was settled in Hamburg. I also started West point there, so our fresh units will get some nice promotions right from the start :D

Turn 2

We receive AP vote to return newly captured Alex's city back to Gandhi. I'll just voted no, as the unhappines isn't worth it.

Alex loses two more cities.

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Oh, and do this trade with Monty so he can build Knights. Maybe he's smart enough to draft as well?

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Turn 3

Seems like Wang got really lucky with his maceman and killed the lone defending knight. This was the city we captured from Alex on previous turn. You can see our LB right next to the city... :blush:

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Naturally we recaptured it back immediately.

Turn 4

AP vote fails and we keep the city. So glad I didn't defy the vote.

Turn 5

Gilgamesh is first to Liberalism, but can't figure out what he took with it. Something we already have ourselves.

Nampo is captured, and the Korean culture magically disappears.

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You might spot from the above picture that Seoul has just revolted because of Wang's capitals culture, and the defenses are completely shattered! Quite handy to have those mobile knights to take the advantage :)

The city comes with a nice bonus shrine!

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Turn 6

Just moving troops. I noticed that Gandhi is gathering his troops in his border cities, so I send some additional defenses there. However, we are still in a forced peace treaty.

Turn 7

Go Monty!

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Gilgamesh things he can steal a wonder under our nose. I'd like to see his face when we sabotage his production ;)

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We capture Pusan and...

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...capitulate Alex! Get a decent city as a bonus as well.

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Turn 8

This is becoming a familiar pattern :p

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I also noticed an opportinity to sell Divine Right for over 1500 gold, so we definitely are not lacking money.

Turn 10

I'll end my set here. Troops are being moved towars Gandhi and we can declare war soon. We have two routes for the attack.

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For some reason I don't think he will be much of a challence...

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Roster
Whosit - On deck
nocho
sturick
Meiz - Just played
Sengir - Autoskip
Norvin Green - Up
 
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