Sentry upgrade & fog
- Thread starter BurN
- Start date
assass1n
Warlord
Forest around it blocks vision think so
Bleys
Deity
Forest on a hill I am guessing. I think Sentry can see over one "sealevel" Forest, but the hill is another blocking feature. Worth checking in a mock WB though, Forest grassland, Forest hill, see which ones you can see past with Sentry.
Ovidian
Chieftain
Hmmm...13 Keshiks...unlucky number. 
Just curious after checking out your screenshot, did you go straight after Persepolis or backtrack and snag Susa first? And if you did go after the capitol first, why?
Not being arguementive or anything. Susa is going to be a pretty nice Commerce city and also breaks their culture barrier, allowing an easier path for reinforcements to the fight at the capitol. Just for the sake of learning about other people's stratgies, I'd be interested in knowing what your plan of attack was and how it went. Thanks.
Just curious after checking out your screenshot, did you go straight after Persepolis or backtrack and snag Susa first? And if you did go after the capitol first, why?
Not being arguementive or anything. Susa is going to be a pretty nice Commerce city and also breaks their culture barrier, allowing an easier path for reinforcements to the fight at the capitol. Just for the sake of learning about other people's stratgies, I'd be interested in knowing what your plan of attack was and how it went. Thanks.
Maybe the sentry can only see over an adjacent forest (thus, the forests just south and 2S of Persepolis) but not over a forest 2 spaces away?
Bleys
Deity
I think the Forest 1 NE of that tile blocks it from the stack of Keshiks. If it was chopped, I think you could see it.
vanatteveldt
Emperor
@Dave
The other interesting question is why the plain 1 NW of Pasar is visible; it seems that visibility can sometimes go around forest and sometimes not.
I think it might work like this: you can imagine the unit sending out little scouts in all directions with move 1 +1 if on hill +1 if sentry. So, their move ends on a forested hill (move cost 3) but can go over a hill if sentry. It seems that to get to the grassland, the scout will go W-SW-SW, so after the second forest it runs out of move points.
If this is the case, does anybody know the paths these scouts will take? ie first straight then diagonal?
Or does it work in a totally different way?
The other interesting question is why the plain 1 NW of Pasar is visible; it seems that visibility can sometimes go around forest and sometimes not.
I think it might work like this: you can imagine the unit sending out little scouts in all directions with move 1 +1 if on hill +1 if sentry. So, their move ends on a forested hill (move cost 3) but can go over a hill if sentry. It seems that to get to the grassland, the scout will go W-SW-SW, so after the second forest it runs out of move points.
If this is the case, does anybody know the paths these scouts will take? ie first straight then diagonal?
Or does it work in a totally different way?
ZauberTigga
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2008
- Messages
- 10
The Forest 1 NW of Susa blocks the view, for the same effect to happe to the plais tile there would have to be a forest 1W of Pasargadae.
DanF5771
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2008
- Messages
- 1,194
Right, ZauberTigga, here is my attempt at explaining the rules:
nice comparison vanatteveldt, but unfortunately the formula "movement cost -> visibility range" doesn't always add up exactly. Generally the mini-Scouts walk backwards and can choose between paths of equal shortness.
The plain tile 1 NW of Pasargadae (E1) is visible because the path of the mini-Scout goes E1-E2-E3-D4. They always just walk 1 tile at a time and then decide to step on the tile which is closest to the current beeline. So standing on E1 they choose between 3 tiles (D1, D2, E2) and E2 wins because it is closest to the current beeline (orange arrow). Standing on E2 they choose between D2, D3, E3 and now both D3 and E3 are possible paths, since they have the same distance to the current beeline (green arrow). But D3 (forested hill) blocks the vision, so E3 wins.
From the tile 2W of Susa (A6) the path can only go through B5 (closest to the red arrow beeline) which is forested and thus the vision is blocked.
The determination of blocked/unblocked vision works by comparing "seefromlevels" and "seethroughlevels" of tiles. seefromlevel (SFL) is 0|1|2|3 for water|plain|hill|peak. seethroughlevel (STL) is equal to SFL but increased by 1 for tiles with forest/jungle.
The Sentry Keshik is standing on a hill so it's SFL is 2 (green number in D4 --> "SFL0"). The tiles in the innermost ring are always visible, but can block vision for the tiles in the 2nd and the outer ring. The white / light blue numbers are the STLs for the inner / 2nd ring (--> "STL1 / STL2"). The yellow numbers are the SFLs for the outer ring (--> "SFL3").
The outer ring has special rules. For units without the Sentry promotion, the 2nd ring naturally becomes the outer ring.
Tiles in the 2nd ring will be blocked by tiles in the inner ring with a STL1 > SFL0 (the forested hills in C3 and D3 block the tiles north of them). Tiles in the outer ring are visible if either SFL0>STL2 (E1 is visible because SFL0 = 2 > STL(E2) = 1) or their SFL3 > max(SFL0, STL1, STL2) (the peak in A7 would be visible even if B6 had a forest).
The tech Optics increases the SFL of water tiles by 1 --> you can build taller ships
.
nice comparison vanatteveldt, but unfortunately the formula "movement cost -> visibility range" doesn't always add up exactly. Generally the mini-Scouts walk backwards and can choose between paths of equal shortness.
The plain tile 1 NW of Pasargadae (E1) is visible because the path of the mini-Scout goes E1-E2-E3-D4. They always just walk 1 tile at a time and then decide to step on the tile which is closest to the current beeline. So standing on E1 they choose between 3 tiles (D1, D2, E2) and E2 wins because it is closest to the current beeline (orange arrow). Standing on E2 they choose between D2, D3, E3 and now both D3 and E3 are possible paths, since they have the same distance to the current beeline (green arrow). But D3 (forested hill) blocks the vision, so E3 wins.
From the tile 2W of Susa (A6) the path can only go through B5 (closest to the red arrow beeline) which is forested and thus the vision is blocked.
The determination of blocked/unblocked vision works by comparing "seefromlevels" and "seethroughlevels" of tiles. seefromlevel (SFL) is 0|1|2|3 for water|plain|hill|peak. seethroughlevel (STL) is equal to SFL but increased by 1 for tiles with forest/jungle.
The Sentry Keshik is standing on a hill so it's SFL is 2 (green number in D4 --> "SFL0"). The tiles in the innermost ring are always visible, but can block vision for the tiles in the 2nd and the outer ring. The white / light blue numbers are the STLs for the inner / 2nd ring (--> "STL1 / STL2"). The yellow numbers are the SFLs for the outer ring (--> "SFL3").
The outer ring has special rules. For units without the Sentry promotion, the 2nd ring naturally becomes the outer ring.
Tiles in the 2nd ring will be blocked by tiles in the inner ring with a STL1 > SFL0 (the forested hills in C3 and D3 block the tiles north of them). Tiles in the outer ring are visible if either SFL0>STL2 (E1 is visible because SFL0 = 2 > STL(E2) = 1) or their SFL3 > max(SFL0, STL1, STL2) (the peak in A7 would be visible even if B6 had a forest).
The tech Optics increases the SFL of water tiles by 1 --> you can build taller ships
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