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SerfNES II - Versailles Treaty
- Thread starter Fëanor
- Start date
Wilson believes that this treaty should be a peace treaty between all the Allied and Associated Powers and the Central Powers
As for the contents of the treaty Wilson adheres to the principles outlined in his fourteen points speech
As for the contents of the treaty Wilson adheres to the principles outlined in his fourteen points speech
Italy, represented by the Prime Minister Vittorio Orlando, will outline its wishes for this peace treaty soon enough, but would like to comment on some of the 14 points proposed by President Wilson.
3. We see no reason why we should remove economic barriers if we feel it is in Italy's best interest. We would like to hear how Mr. Wilson plans on enforcing this.
4. If you can ensure all of our possible enemies will do the same, then you are not just a President but a God.
5. Italy's territorial integrity will not be violated for some definition of morality as proposed by Mr. Wilson.
9. What is your idea of a redefinition? I will not leave Versailles with a treaty that takes Italian lands.
10. We agree wholeheartedly. Their role in starting this war should not be forgiven either.
12. It is time to have the Sick Man interred with history. There is no more Ottoman Empire.
14. We are extremely interested in pursuing this idea. A council of nations could, perhaps, solve the worlds problems before they come to pass to a level of the Great War.
3. We see no reason why we should remove economic barriers if we feel it is in Italy's best interest. We would like to hear how Mr. Wilson plans on enforcing this.
4. If you can ensure all of our possible enemies will do the same, then you are not just a President but a God.
5. Italy's territorial integrity will not be violated for some definition of morality as proposed by Mr. Wilson.
9. What is your idea of a redefinition? I will not leave Versailles with a treaty that takes Italian lands.
10. We agree wholeheartedly. Their role in starting this war should not be forgiven either.
12. It is time to have the Sick Man interred with history. There is no more Ottoman Empire.
14. We are extremely interested in pursuing this idea. A council of nations could, perhaps, solve the worlds problems before they come to pass to a level of the Great War.
President Wilson kindly reminds Prime Minister Orlando that the fourteen points speech was mainly aimed at the central powers to make them understand what our demands for peace would be, we are not demanding the above mentioned things from our allies, although we would certainly welcome mutual free trade, disarmament etc. with them.
The end of the Ottoman Empire is long overdue, however the peoples of that empire must be guaranteed the right of self determination, whether they be Arabs, Turks, Greek, Armenian, Jews or Kurds.
e350tb
Stupendously Illogical Englishman
10char....
Shaping Europe: Large Federal Republics Idea
Dark Gray: Federal Republic of Germany
Dark Purple (Central Europe and Baltic): United States of Europe (USE)
Light Purple (Balkans): Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
Gold (Caucasus): Transcaucasian Democratic Federative Republic
Dark Gray: Federal Republic of Germany
Dark Purple (Central Europe and Baltic): United States of Europe (USE)
Light Purple (Balkans): Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
Gold (Caucasus): Transcaucasian Democratic Federative Republic
We think that the map our nation purposes is the best one due to the fairness and the conditions I will list below.
1 We think that due to Constantinople being a city with so many cultures, religions and diverse backgrounds, that it should be an unity of itself. Meaning that, It would become a city state and not held by any other nation including the Greeks and even ourselves.
2 We think that Arminea and Palestine should both be granted semi antomy in which they are able to govern over local issues. They still would be a part of the Turkish nation, but are to given full representation in the democratic elections and are not to be discriminated in anyway.
3 We are willing to give up all the territory we held in Mesopotamia and Arabia, in I will give to the following nations Iran, Arabs and British. We also ask that 1/6th of any profits made from selling of oil from lands that we once held are to be given to us, so that we can improve our conditions and repay damages. We in turn, will pay any damages made on the British during that battle of Gaillpoli.
das
Regeneration In Process
Fëanor;6459421 said:Shaping Europe: Large Federal Republics Idea
Dark Gray: Federal Republic of Germany
Dark Purple (Central Europe and Baltic): United States of Europe (USE)
Light Purple (Balkans): Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
Gold (Caucasus): Transcaucasian Democratic Federative Republic
lurker's comment: The horror. The horror. Can you at least give Vienna to Germany along with the rest of Austria?
Greece also proposes that Constantinople be a free city; we advise that it should be governed by a civilian council with representation from both Orthodox and Muslim clergy as well as civilians.
As to the rest of that...Greece demands that Turkish Thrace (and Bulgarian Thrace) be allowed to her as territories with more Greeks than Turks. We are willing to consider Turkish control of Pontus - though there must be at least limited autonomy in order to preserve Greek citizens' rights - as well as Bithynia; however, Ionia must be allowed to Greece as well, to go along with national self-determination.
OOC: I will make a map as soon as I get to a computer with an image editor in about half an hour. Also, this conference seems lopsided; Great Powers, be Great Powers already!
EDIT: Done. Re-posted for truth.
Shadowbound
Incorrugible
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 4,078
France rejects the idea of multinational states like the ones proposed by the American President. Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire are proof that they do not work, and only lead to the oppression of the majority of their nationalities for the benefit of a few.
Speaking of those two empires, it has some ideas. The most important of which is that they should be divided along national lines.
1) Greece should get Greek majority regions in Western Anatolia, along with Bulgarian and Turkish Thrace.
2)Some regions of the Ottoman Empire should be granted to the Big Three (Italy, France, Britain) as mandates, to be governed until they are ready for self-rule. In this case, Iraq, Hedjaz and the Transjordan to Britain, Syria, Lebanon and Palestine to France, and Antalya (+Rhodes) to Italy.
3) Recognizing their horrible treatment by the Turks during and before the war (see Armenian Genocide), an Armenian Democratic Republic should be organized.
4) Noting the various claims on Constantinople and the Bosphorus by Turkey and Greece, the region should be organized into an independent Zone of the Straits, governed as Greece proposed for a Free City of Constantinople. The Zone will not be able to deny ships passage through the straits, though a toll may be charged.
5) Kurdistan, same reasons as Armenia.
For Austria-Hungary,
6) The Czech-slovak Republic, proclaimed in October 1918, should be recognized.
7) Italy should receive Trentino Alto Aldige, Trieste, and Istria, some of the regions promised in the secret London Pact that brought them into the war.
8) Also mentioned under the London Pact, Serbia should receive Bosnia, Srem, and Split.
9) Romania should receive southern Transylvania.
10) Austria-Hungary, or what's left of it, will be broken up, and forbidden from ever reuniting. Germany will also be prohibited from an Anschluss with Austria.
I hope to have a map later.
Regarding Germany, and the lands it took from Russia, some ideas.
1) A Baltic Republic should be organized, because otherwise we have three small countries that fall to the first belligerent nation in the region
2) Poland, with West Prussia, Poznan, and Danzig from Germany, and borders in the west at either Congress Poland borders, RL, or all of Byelorussia? I cast my vote for a strong Poland.
3) Ukraine? I don't think all of that land can realistically go to Poland.
4) I want war reparations.
Regarding Russia, France does not believe that Russian lands not given away by the Treaty of Brest-litovsk can be affected directly by this treaty, as it is no longer a participant in the war.
EDIT: Le Map
Speaking of those two empires, it has some ideas. The most important of which is that they should be divided along national lines.
1) Greece should get Greek majority regions in Western Anatolia, along with Bulgarian and Turkish Thrace.
2)Some regions of the Ottoman Empire should be granted to the Big Three (Italy, France, Britain) as mandates, to be governed until they are ready for self-rule. In this case, Iraq, Hedjaz and the Transjordan to Britain, Syria, Lebanon and Palestine to France, and Antalya (+Rhodes) to Italy.
3) Recognizing their horrible treatment by the Turks during and before the war (see Armenian Genocide), an Armenian Democratic Republic should be organized.
4) Noting the various claims on Constantinople and the Bosphorus by Turkey and Greece, the region should be organized into an independent Zone of the Straits, governed as Greece proposed for a Free City of Constantinople. The Zone will not be able to deny ships passage through the straits, though a toll may be charged.
5) Kurdistan, same reasons as Armenia.
For Austria-Hungary,
6) The Czech-slovak Republic, proclaimed in October 1918, should be recognized.
7) Italy should receive Trentino Alto Aldige, Trieste, and Istria, some of the regions promised in the secret London Pact that brought them into the war.
8) Also mentioned under the London Pact, Serbia should receive Bosnia, Srem, and Split.
9) Romania should receive southern Transylvania.
10) Austria-Hungary, or what's left of it, will be broken up, and forbidden from ever reuniting. Germany will also be prohibited from an Anschluss with Austria.
I hope to have a map later.
Regarding Germany, and the lands it took from Russia, some ideas.
1) A Baltic Republic should be organized, because otherwise we have three small countries that fall to the first belligerent nation in the region
2) Poland, with West Prussia, Poznan, and Danzig from Germany, and borders in the west at either Congress Poland borders, RL, or all of Byelorussia? I cast my vote for a strong Poland.
3) Ukraine? I don't think all of that land can realistically go to Poland.
4) I want war reparations.
Regarding Russia, France does not believe that Russian lands not given away by the Treaty of Brest-litovsk can be affected directly by this treaty, as it is no longer a participant in the war.
EDIT: Le Map
I don't think you should be lecturing me about this. It would be highly hypocritical of you to do so.
You should try to do the same if you want to remain true to your beliefs.
Depends what your meaning, but if your saying like how I agreed with the Greeks than yes.
I think that is not Liget, much like you people have lied to other nations, we have been here long enough to know you antics.
I already reconize what was done and think it was horendus. I also say that is would be wise to look at yourself before lecturing me on my nations problems. Be aware, if do put these terms into effect without my consent, then it won't be good for any of us.
I guess that's ok.
Tell that to Britan before telling me.
carmen510
Deity
Australia would like to state its position on the Ottoman Empire. We believe that the deal proposed by the Ottoman Empire is fair for all sides, and is not one-sided for Italy.
As for Austria-Hungary, we think that France's proposal is fine, except the part of uniting. However, we should make sure it cannot reunite for a maximum of one century.
Italy should receive the regions it was promised in the secret London treaty.
Czechoslovakia should be established.
As for Austria-Hungary, we think that France's proposal is fine, except the part of uniting. However, we should make sure it cannot reunite for a maximum of one century.
Italy should receive the regions it was promised in the secret London treaty.
Czechoslovakia should be established.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
I agree to Frances proposal.
Shadowbound
Incorrugible
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 4,078
Australia fails to understand that the Ottoman Empire is dead. It also fails to understand commitments made by the allies to the Arabs, promising them independence in return for revolting against the Ottoman Empire. The Armenians, meanwhile, have been genocided. Over a million Armenians are dead. You propose to turn regions that, even now, are in active revolt against the Ottomans over to them? When the Ottomans themselves have shown their willingness to try and kill off the entire civilian population?
Australia also won't have to live next to a German super-state, and we are adamant on Germany never uniting with Austria.
Australia also won't have to live next to a German super-state, and we are adamant on Germany never uniting with Austria.
Head Serf
Emperor
Austria-Hungary and the Balkans
Delegates from Romania
We, as very important allies during the Great War, believe that we should receive the Dobruja region, captured during the Great War by Bulgaria. In addition, with the breakup of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, we think that we should receive the lands of Transylvania and Banat. The region to our northeast, Bessarabia previously Russian, and now belonging to Germany according to the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, should also be handed over to us, as it is predominantly Romanian.
Delegates from the Yugoslavia Movement
We, the peoples of Serbia, Croatia, and Slovenia, believe that a united land between our three peoples, encompassing the current lands of Serbia, Montenegro, and part of Austria-Hungary, would be the best way to solve the current problem. In addition, we should receive the Banat region to our northeast, the western half of which is predominantly Serbian.
Delegates from Bulgaria
We should not lose our current land of Dobruja, as it is predominantly Bulgarian, and should receive the lands of Thrace and Macedonia, as these are lands traditionally belonging to the people of Greater Bulgaria. We would agree with turning Istanbul into a Free City, with the lands around it belonging to Bulgaria.
Delegates from the Czech Movement
We feel that our people, so long under the control of various militant nations, should finally receive sovereignty and gain the lands where Czechs currently live, in northwestern Austria-Hungary.
Delegates from the Sudenland
We, as German speaking people, should become part of a new Austrian state, encompassing the western half of the current Austro-Hungarian lands.
Delegates from the free Croatian Movement
The Croatian people should receive a land of their own, currently to the east of Italy and controlled by the Austro-Hungarian empire. We would also be open to a sort of federation, united only loosely with a Serbian and Slovenian nation. We completely oppose a union like Yugoslavia, and feel it would create an extremely weak nation.
Delegates from the free Slovenian Movement
We, the people currently living in Austro-Hungarian occupied Slovenia, believe that we should form a new state, administered by Slovenes and supported by those western countries writing the new treaty. The "countries" of Croatia and Serbia should cede lands to our new nation, as their lands are predominantly peopled with Slovenes.
Some Advice
It is to be remembered that Bulgaria lost the war, and that it is very difficult to properly find out what percentage of each race lives in each region, due to the poor infrastructure and organization. It is also highly questionable just how many people support the Free Croatian Movement and the Free Slovenian Movement.
Delegates from Romania
We, as very important allies during the Great War, believe that we should receive the Dobruja region, captured during the Great War by Bulgaria. In addition, with the breakup of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, we think that we should receive the lands of Transylvania and Banat. The region to our northeast, Bessarabia previously Russian, and now belonging to Germany according to the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, should also be handed over to us, as it is predominantly Romanian.
Delegates from the Yugoslavia Movement
We, the peoples of Serbia, Croatia, and Slovenia, believe that a united land between our three peoples, encompassing the current lands of Serbia, Montenegro, and part of Austria-Hungary, would be the best way to solve the current problem. In addition, we should receive the Banat region to our northeast, the western half of which is predominantly Serbian.
Delegates from Bulgaria
We should not lose our current land of Dobruja, as it is predominantly Bulgarian, and should receive the lands of Thrace and Macedonia, as these are lands traditionally belonging to the people of Greater Bulgaria. We would agree with turning Istanbul into a Free City, with the lands around it belonging to Bulgaria.
Delegates from the Czech Movement
We feel that our people, so long under the control of various militant nations, should finally receive sovereignty and gain the lands where Czechs currently live, in northwestern Austria-Hungary.
Delegates from the Sudenland
We, as German speaking people, should become part of a new Austrian state, encompassing the western half of the current Austro-Hungarian lands.
Delegates from the free Croatian Movement
The Croatian people should receive a land of their own, currently to the east of Italy and controlled by the Austro-Hungarian empire. We would also be open to a sort of federation, united only loosely with a Serbian and Slovenian nation. We completely oppose a union like Yugoslavia, and feel it would create an extremely weak nation.
Delegates from the free Slovenian Movement
We, the people currently living in Austro-Hungarian occupied Slovenia, believe that we should form a new state, administered by Slovenes and supported by those western countries writing the new treaty. The "countries" of Croatia and Serbia should cede lands to our new nation, as their lands are predominantly peopled with Slovenes.
Some Advice
It is to be remembered that Bulgaria lost the war, and that it is very difficult to properly find out what percentage of each race lives in each region, due to the poor infrastructure and organization. It is also highly questionable just how many people support the Free Croatian Movement and the Free Slovenian Movement.
carmen510
Deity
Australia would wish to add that we had forgotten about Armenia, and agree it should become a free state.
Arabia will also get their promised lands, but no more.
Arabia will also get their promised lands, but no more.
Fuschia
A Little Odd
Japan wishes to inquire as to what shall be done with any territories of the Central Powers in the Pacific Ocean, specifically those of Germany. We realize that the primary concerns here are those European in origin, but Japan feels it deserves to be put in control of any territories of the Central Powers in the Pacific Ocean until such a time as they may be released to form their own government or merge with another nation. We eagerly await any news as to the status of these territories.
As for Europe, Japan cares little as to what is done in Europe, so long as the Central Powers are not unjustly crippled. An unfair treaty is one quickly broken, as has been shown throughout history again and again. We urge those overseeing the distribution of territory and punishments of the Central Powers to be lenient to them, as their people do not deserve to be punished for the actions of their government.
OOC: I am Japan, not e350tb. Also, considering that everyone is posting their requests here, I thought it wise to break the oft broken rule and post mine as well.
As for Europe, Japan cares little as to what is done in Europe, so long as the Central Powers are not unjustly crippled. An unfair treaty is one quickly broken, as has been shown throughout history again and again. We urge those overseeing the distribution of territory and punishments of the Central Powers to be lenient to them, as their people do not deserve to be punished for the actions of their government.
OOC: I am Japan, not e350tb. Also, considering that everyone is posting their requests here, I thought it wise to break the oft broken rule and post mine as well.
Shadowbound
Incorrugible
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 4,078
France does not recognize any negotiation with those who fought for the Central Powers during the war, like the Croats, Slovenes, Bulgarians, Turks and Sudenlanders did.
France also isn't talking about the Kingdom of Nejd, but Arabs, in Palestine, Syria, and Iraq. We aren't giving these lands to the Ottomans.
France agrees to give Bessarabia to Romania and western Banat to Serbia, in modification of its proposed treaty. It also recommends Serbia receive the Lion's Share of any reparations from Austria and Hungary.
And, yeah, Japan gets to do that.
France also isn't talking about the Kingdom of Nejd, but Arabs, in Palestine, Syria, and Iraq. We aren't giving these lands to the Ottomans.
France agrees to give Bessarabia to Romania and western Banat to Serbia, in modification of its proposed treaty. It also recommends Serbia receive the Lion's Share of any reparations from Austria and Hungary.
And, yeah, Japan gets to do that.
What definition are you using for "Ottoman Empire"? Is this just another way of saying, French fries = freedom fries. If that's so that means that I don't have to give a single thing up but my nations name.
Tell that to the British, I have promised to give up control of Arabia.
Please don't be a kettle and lecture me on how I'm black. You should know better than that.
I think that's fair, we don't have any intent to cause problems and in fact want to grant them greater rights and thus representation of what polices are being made in our nation. Do you really want to flush their rights to representation down the toilet do you? Besides, if you want to protect these people so much then why can't ship over to your land? It's a win win for the both of us.
Now wait a moment... Let's forget about the conflict for now that we are having together, and gang up on the true evil of this war. Russia! They after all both caused the Central Powers much time, but also chickened out on their allies. Everyone could gain from that!
