SESN01 - The Poor Warmongering Fools

microbe said:
When will you get this right? *She*, not *He*.

:wallbash:

I guess I just naturally assume that everyone is male. (As I'm sure the majority of the members here probably are)

I don't think anyone tipped me off previously.

Cuivienen, you have my most sincere apologies.
 
One point about armies. As long as we rely on the galley, they're of limited value since they can't be loaded. What we will find most effective in terms of conquering speed, is a lot of zerks in galleys making amphib attacks vs. cities. The AI has a lot of these coastal cities vulnerable to that, and with the lousy interior terrain, any army we build won't move fast. Of course we could do the "empty army" approach, and fill it later in a conquered city.
 
We can use the army against Egypt. Even with archers only it will be very powerful at this early stage, so don't hesitate in using it (and then we can build Heroic Epic too).

But we shouldn't load the army unless we are committed to continue the war and take a few cities.
 
Well there's the challenge when we're talking Epic. We have to take a big city out of archer mode to build it while slugging it out with the opposition if we stay at war.
 
I would load the army with archers for now, win a battle, so we can build the HE when we're ready for it. We need to get Invention for 'zerks so we're still a ways away. I'd really like to have the Pyramids in the bag for us. I'd be building galleys in Trondheim and/or Gronigen while we're awaiting the tech for 'zerks
 
Just looked at the save. Cuivienen, note before you go, science is at zero and the 3 unprotected workers outside Groningen are sitting right next to a Dutch archer. Things aren't looking good as far as Egypt goes. They're filling up the power graph fast.
 
130 BC (IT) --

The Inca will give us Monarchy, Construction and 293 gold for The Republic and Literature. Done!

Research set to Currency @ 90%, -1 gpt, due in 10.

Move a Warrior out of Groningen to guard the Worker stack. Taxman hired to prevent rioting (+1 gpt now).

Stockholm is in danger, but there's nothing I can do :(

110 BC (1) --

Our Spearman at Stockholm holds off an Egyptian Warrior and Archer! Yay!

Bede's bows joins the Army.

Warrior defeats a Dutch Archer near Groningen.

We meet the Iroquois. Since they have more money than the value of Literature, they'll buy it from the Inca next turn. We sell it first for 153 gold. They are still down both government techs.

90 BC (2) --

Trondheim: Courthouse --> Archer

The Egyptians begin the SoZ.

Our Spearman at Stockholm attacks the neighboring Egyptian Archer, Risky move, but worthwhile, as we get an MGL.

Hubba (nice MGL name :D) moves to Stockholm. I'm not sure whether we should build another Army and hope for another MGL to rush the HE, build the HE from scratch once our current army wins or let Hubba rest for a while. I'll pause here and let the team decide.
 
I thought that was mighty fast to play a whole set.

Since we wanted the HE, my vote goes for rushing that right now. Will translate to more armies when we really want them, with Invention.
 
Build it and they will come.

We still need a victory in the field, however.
 
Continuing log:

70 BC (3) --

We lose an Archer in the north.
Bergen contracts disease.

Copenhagen: Archer --> Archer

The Army filled, it heads for Amsterdam for a victory and the HE.

We meet Korea beyond the Iroquois. They have Currency, but lack both government techs and Literature. They will give Currency and 80 gold (all) for The Republic. Deal! We are in the MA. Korea got Engineering as their free tech -- we go for Feudalism. Berserks, here we come!

50 BC (4) --

The Inca begin the Hanging Gardens and the Great Library.

Birka: Worker --> Worker

Our Archer attacks Amsterdam. We lose 5 hp vs a Spear. Hubba will rush the HE in Bergen next turn.

30 BC (5) --

Bergen: Archer --> The Heroic Epic (rushed)
Reykjavik: Spearman --> Spearman

Army kills two Spears in Amsterdam, but redlines. An unfortified Spear shows.

10 BC (6) --

The Byzantines cancel our Alliance vs. The Dutch.
Egypt completes the Temple of Artemis. Cascading gives the Byzantines the Great Library (can you say GL slingshot?) and the Inca the Hanging Gardens.

Trondheim: Archer --> Archer
Bergen: The Heroic Epic --> Archer

Heroic_Epic.jpg


Copenhagen: Archer --> Archer

Army heals near Amsterdam.

10 AD (7) --

The Iroquois complete the Mausoleum of Mausollos and the Zulu cascade to and finish the Great Lighthouse. Egypt cascades to and finishes the Statue of Zeus. Six wonders in two turns!

Our Army makes mincemeat of the remaining Dutch defenders in Amsterdam. The city falls and we contriol the Pyramids! [party]

Amsterdam.jpg


Right now we have two choices -- lose Caesarea to the Egyptians or accept Peace from Egypt and break our Alliance with Byzantium. I abandon the city.

30 AD (8) --

Groningen: Galley --> Galley (Berserks soon!)

50 AD (9) --

I really hate to cancel the Alliance, but I think it was ill thought-out. The Egyotians have landed next to undefended Birka and I don't think we can hold Stockholm. I sign Peace with Egypt for 100 gold.

70 AD (10) --

I left everything untouched for the next player. The loss of War happiness resulted in some unexpected rioting in a few cities.

Save
 
The save

It’s late, so I’ll just cover the initial assessment, mention a couple highlights, and post the save with details to follow.

Initial assessment: It’s going to be a challenge to win at the rate we’re going. The Egyptians are at 14 cities, and we have half that with virtually no improvements. Pyramids certainly gives us a fighting chance, but to win we have to expand and improve the productivity of our land, or we’ll eventually get buried by Egypt. Zerks are 70 shield units, so we have to get these hills mined, and new cities in place ASAP. If we can at least create some 10 shield per turn cities, that should help us build a supply of zerks when the time comes. Plus, if we’re still going Templar, Copenhagen needs to be improved before we pull it offline for pre-build. Everyone else is at Republic, while we’re still in despotism. My plan while at war is to squeeze out more settlers and workers.

Turn activity: Utrecht cost us 2 elite archers, but fell. Then the flippin’ autoraze kicked in again. I hate that! Captured The Hague, but Willy added another town just north of it. No fear, it’s in a pretty useless location so he has 2 cities left. The archer army with another archer or 2 can finish him off, I think. Made peace w/Zulu for 4 gold, all he had. We founded new cities Aarhus, Stavanger, Odense, and next turn we can drop another town SW of Copenhagen. We can build FP. Feudalism in 1, but Incas have it already, building Sun’s, while others up Engineering. I’d suggest next up get us to Republic.
 
Suggestion:
If it's feasible build lots of archers and some ships and accumulate gold while waiting for Invention. Then we'll be ready to sail!!
 
The details:

Preturn, as Cuivinen indicated, a number of our cities burning, I up the lux tax to 10% to keep our cities productive. Groningen change queue from galley> worker. Starve a spear in Amsterdam to reduce the residual native population and inherent flip risk. Now size 1.

IBT- Amsterdam spear>warrior, Trondheim archer>settler, Bergen archer>settler.

Turn 1- workers mining vic Stockholm, army out of Amsterdam, archer moves in to provide garrison of 2.

IBT- Egyptian troops head east towards Byzantines.

Turn 2- Moving archers to Stockholm, curragh sailing, army vic Groningen. Change build queue Copenhagen archer>settler, Stockholm spear>settler.

IBT- 2 Dutch archers moving north, north of Eindhoven. Groningen worker>worker, Oslo spear>worker

Turn 3- Unhappiness still a bother with lux at 10%, Oslo needs entertainer, Trondheim needs taxman. Battle for Utrecht, size 1. Elite fortified spear on a hill. We have 2 elite archers, vet archer and the army. I use one of the elites first to try and do at least a little damage. Our valiant archer is slain without effect. Time to roll the dice, if the RNG goes against us again, this may decide the game. Army gets roughed up, but gets their target. Reg spear now shows. Try the second elite archer, he dies, gets hp. Army strikes again, kills the spear, and advances. Will the city stay up? Bah! What was Utrecht is now a pile of rubble. Will try and re-settle loc as it doesn’t appear Byzantines have anyone near at the moment.

IBT- Zulu and Byz make peace. Birka worker>worker, Inca building Sun’s so they have Feud.

Turn 4- More worker action, and check the foreign scene. Byz, Korea, Inca up engineering, Inca too, also up feud. Iroquois down currency, monarchy.

IBT- Copenhagen settler>settler. Reykjavik spear>worker.

Turn 5- Our galley sees reg spear at Eindhoven, size 2. 2 Dutch archers still moving north vic Birka. Groningen gets taxman. Copenhagen settler heads for Utrecht rubble.

IBT- Amsterdam warrior>harbor, Trondheim settler>spear, Groningen worker>harbor

Turn 6- Settler moves out from Trondheim just out of reach of the 2 Dutch archers who are trying to get into undefended Birka. 3 of our vet archers nearby have other ideas.

IBT- Iroquois wants our leaky curragh out of their territory. Oslo worker>spear, Stockholm settler>worker.

Turn 7- Curragh sees 2 barb galleys and sinks one. Dutch spear w/settler out of The Hague, headed north. 3 vet archers to intercept, or hit Hague w/army. Battle of Birka: they lose both archers, we lose one, promote one.

IBT- Not much

Turn 8- Worker action, 3 vet archers continue to pursue the settler pair. Move the army towards Hague.

IBT- Who’s in command of our curragh off the Iroquois coast, Horatio Hornblower? Sinks another barb galley. Bergen settler>worker, Copenhagen settler>temple (change @ your discretion)

Turn 9- Aarhus founded, harbor in 30, Stavanger founded, warrior in 10. Troops to the Hague, I’ll let the settler pair go, as I can’t catch them. If they settle on a hill again, I’d want the army there, so we’ll go with Plan B.

IBT- Right of passage with Byz renewed. Didn’t notice we had it, no reason not to continue. FP option now available. Trondheim spear>worker, Reykjavik worker>worker.

Turn 10- Odense founded, rax in 20. Battle for The Hague. 3 vet archers on a hill with Army in support. Vet archer dies, reg spear redlines, shows 2nd reg spear. Army moves in for the kill, gets both, captures The Hague. Feudalism in 1, make peace with Zulu for 4 gold. Now at 13 cities. We have another settler by wheat tile SW of Copenhagen that can build city, and share 3 flood plains tiles as needed. Other settler to east should probably get that hill tile in direction of Byz before Cleo grabs it. Also note the 2 marsh tiles at the mouth of the river on north coast NW of Stockholm. We should clear one and post a settler. Will give us a forward operating naval base against Egypt. Note soon they'll likely get Med Inf w/feud. Don't think our archers will fare too well in that scenario.
 
This is my "got it".

Looks like we're still at war with only the Dutch. Should be able to make some archers, galleys, and gold. Along with a bit of infrastructure, of course.
 
Pre turn – Wow, we’re in pretty rough shape here. 3 warrior, 11 archer, and 8 spear are the bulk of our forces. Although we’re having happiness problems, we don’t have our dyes or furs hooked up yet. The furs need cultural expansion too. Change Amsterdam to temple. On the upside, we have several barracks, so vet archers will be the order of the day.

IT – We get Feud. Best deal is Eng, 2 gold, 4 gpt from no less than Theodora. Kind of crazy when she would have got it next turn, but OK. I start a revolution, we draw 4 turns. Hire a single scientist and many taxmen.

270 ad (1) – Vet archer defeats reg archer. Our 2/5 curragh runs for its life.

IT – Unbelievably, the Dutch declared on the Byz. Byz starts Sun Tzus.

280 ad (2) – Hareid founded.

IT – Our curragh finally succumbs to the barbs.

290 ad (3) – Army defeats reg archer.

300 ad (4) – See above.

310 ad (5) – Revolt ends, new Monarchy established. I know Republic was suggested, but I thought that WW, unit support, and MP’s outweighed the commerce/corruption boost. MM around to get invention in 20 at 4 gpt. Vet archer defeats reg archer and promotes. Molde founded, starts worker.

IT – Birka worker -> worker. No sense building any improvements here, I guess.

320 ad (6) – Battle for Eindhoven: army defeats reg spear x2, gets redlined to 4/14. Elite archer wins vs reg archer. Reg archer still showing.

IT – The Egyptian forces that were heading home seem to have turned around. Trondheim worker -> archer. Bergen worker -> worker. Oslo archer -> archer. Stockholm worker -> worker.

330 ad (7) – Elite archer defats reg archer, Eindhoven falls.

340 ad (8) – Egyptians don’t seem to be headed at us. Pillage horses near Eindhoven.

IT – Bergen worker -> archer.

350 ad (9) – Army defeats reg spear at Arnhem. Elite archer defeats reg spear. Arnhem falls, William is gone. :hammer:

IT – Groningen harbor -> galley. Our peeps put a new lawn on the joint.

360 ad (10) – Nothing noteworthy.

Well, didn’t feel like I got a whole lot accomplished, but I made some progress at least. We have a new govt, Dutch are gone, we have 13 left on Invention, have 333 in the bank, and will have dyes hooked up in two turns. We may want to consider rushing the temple in Amsterdam so we can grab those furs too. I had to keep a very watchful eye on happiness and even lost a city or two to riots anyhow. M60’s river spot will be clear in 3 turns. We’re going to need a lot more money, as I believe it’s gonna cost 150 gold to upgrade each archer. (50 shield diff multiplied by 3, right?) It looks like the Egyptians have designs on some of the Byzantine cities. I was kind of annoyed I didn't get another leader, as all my elite battles were carefully orchestrated and victorius. Oh well.

EDIT: The Inca have Invention, but we have nothing they want. Egypt just got Feud, still no Engineering. It looks like the worst our zerks will have to worry about will be pikes.

>>>THE SAVE<<<
 
I’d like to offer up a strategy against Egypt for consideration. While I love the 6 attack value of the berserk, the defense value of 2 is pitiful given these are 70 shield units, and it makes these guys very vulnerable to counterattack. For that reason, we should minimize their exposure to those attacks, particularly from horse-type units. We can best do that by keeping them primarily as an amphibious strike component, acting in coordination with a SOD of our archer army and equipped mainly with spears and trebuchets. What that does is forces Egypt to hit the SOD head on, taking casualties. Any losses we take would not be to costly zerks that take a long time to replace. Once the SOD reaches a target city on the coast, the trebs can soften up the city for assault, the amphib zerks clean house, one likely moves in on the capture, but then the SOD spears move in to garrison. Then repeat the process. It would be a particularly effective strategy if workers from behind can safely build roads to our captured cities, speeding the flow of reinforcements. So the Order Of Battle would look something like this:

Amphibious Berserk Component (ABC)
4-6 berserks
3-4 galleys

Defensive Engagement Force (DEF)
1st Archer Army
x # of spears
6 trebuchets

Rear Guard (optional)
Road Construction Team
Spear Security Team

The nice thing is that this wouldn’t take long to build. The screenshot that follows shows how this would work.
 
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