SG - May be best suitor win!

[ruff_hi]

Roster
Ruff_Hi - second drop
Strauss - third drop
GreyFox - resting in the pavilion
Double Stack - at the crease
Culdeus - first drop

Prolly won't be able to roll my turns today. It's my 5yr anniversary and I'd prefer to not have our marriage end with her cracking my laptop over my head. Should be able to roll it out Sat. morning. Skip if you want and I'll hop back in line.

Yes, don't want to damage the laptop - hard to play any CIV if that happens. Anyway, DStack is up and you are next in line - happy anniversary!

 

[culdeus]

tap

Is this thing on?

i can run my turns anytime this morning if you wanna swap DS and myself.

 

[GreyFox]

Its been quite some time (>55hrs)... where is Double Stack?

 

[culdeus]

If I get back from my SB deal sober I'll go.

 

[ruff_hi]

culdeus, yes - good idea.

 

[culdeus]

Turn 0 - Took a peek at things. Not fired up aboot the oracle. I unilateraly changed it to an archer for two turns then going to switch to worker. Our cities are horribly underworked and underprotected. Good thing this is noble.

Turn 1 1560BC - Scout kills wolf. Moving settler towards the floodplain mania sw of liz watch.

Turn 2 1520- Alex asks us to cancel deals with Elizabeth. Nope, Not gonna happen. He's still cautious. Liz Watch finishes barracks. Starts worker.

Turn 3 1480 - City Love Shack founded. Starts Archer. Gonna be a commerce/production combo powerhouse working lots of floodplains and hills too. some dead tiles, but should be solid. Also has stone to help chop pyramids.

Turn 4 1440 - Moved some scouts. Trying to get a looksee on napolean and toku. Can't see much.

Turn 5 1400 - Horseback riding done - Started IW to see if we have an easy axeman hookup.

Turn 6 1360 - Trying to hook up horses to rest of civ as fast as possible. Almost got workers cranked out.

Turn 7 1320 - Worker done in crickle. Continue cottage spamming and pick back up work on archer.

Turn 8 1280 - Hit enter.

Turn 9 1240 -CATTTTFIGHT Izzy now wants us to cancel deals with Hatch. I guess we can't say no so I cancelled our deals.

Turn 10 1200 - Moved scouts

Turn 11 1160 - Horses now hooked up. Archer done in crickle. Started library. Worker done in Liz Watch started archer.

Turn 12 1120 - Moved scouts and Continued cottage spamming. Crickle now has a greenface. Not a big suprise.

Turn 13 1100 - We have iron within our cutural borders, but not hooked up or able to work. 1N and 3E of Crickle. Started COL to take a shot at getting our own religion for better or worse.

Turn 14 1080- Hit enter. Moved some scouts.

Turn 15 1060- Ditto

Turn 16 1040 - We'll have to drop from 100percent sci soon. within next 3 turns to be exact.

Turn 17 1020 - Still nothing much going on. Love Shack has a long time before it can produce anything of value for us besides gold.

Turn 18 1000 - Scout barely survives against barb warrior .1.

Turn 19 975 - Now Alex wants OB. Not sure what our policy is about that. Declined him.

Turn 20 950 - Moved some workers to start mining some hills. We are really short of hammers and have extra pop to work it.

 

[culdeus]

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[culdeus]

Basically we need lots of tiles worked. Each city has it's own worker and is behind the population. We have a happy problem in crickle that has only existed a few turns. The religion thing is an issue to resolve. Need to get granaries online in all the cities to supplement production via the whip. Lots to do.

There is one last good city site to the W of crickle then it's the AI's cities that we will need to take. We are not prepared for any sort of major barb invasion.

 

[GreyFox]

Nice set of turns, culdeus!

The religion thing is an issue to resolve.

What religion thing? We already had Hinduism. The problem with converting is that we may alienate some ladies and get -ve rating. So, the course of plan is to spread our religion to at least one lady before we convetr, or wait for one lady's religion to spread to us.

There is one last good city site to the W of crickle then it's the AI's cities that we will need to take.

How about the yellow dot (see strauss dotmap in pg 2)? Is it taken by AI?

Who's up now? Are we waiting for DS?

 

[ruff_hi]

Lets give DS a chance to check in - laughed @ the name of our new city!

We have to start looking at how our actions affect the girls and boys. Can people please post a list of civs and our relationship with them (eg Bella - friendly +12) - see below. We also need to take note of people's worst enemy and try not to trade to them ("-3, you traded with our worst enemy"). I think this is because we are at "+3 we like your trade". This game is about winning and about digging into the inter-relationships between everyone.

culdeus - tough call on the cat-fight - what was the impact of the decision? I had a quick peek at the save and it looks like we need to go looking for some happy healthy pills - farm and connect the rice, grab some pigs, fish, oysters, etc. What about a city to the NE near the pigs? Also, we need to get some graineries up and running - IMHO, more important than libraries - so we can wield the whip.


Apart form hatty, the girls like us the best. We are cautious with hatty @ 0 while some of the boys are at annoyed (purple) at +1? However, some of the boys are +1 (v our +2) and are pleased (blue) while we are still cautious (white).

 

[culdeus]

Well, I pretty much thought we had to give them what they asked for. It's not like she asked for a religious conversion.

Top three things to get workers up and running in the next set.

1. Hook up iron and stone
2. Mine some nearby hills in our cities.
3. Get a road crew up to liz for trade.

Builds probably need to be granaries like you said and start to form some semblance of an army and another settler late. We are constrained by red crosses in a big way.

I like the idea of religion hoarding as it gives the girls less chance to start and spread them.

 

[culdeus]

The yellow dot probably makes a better later 5th city. Problem would be that we would end up with a border conflict and it's a jungle out there.

Toku got the worst start of anyone and if we take the flood plained area to the W of crickle we have a shot at pinning him in and then destroying him very fast.

 

[ruff_hi]

I've been thinking about the guys - I am more than happy to decimate them but is it in our interest to totally remove them? What is the up side / down side of leaving the boys with 1 junk city?

 

[Pvblivs]

I think there should be a rule that you cannot kill too much of the boys or decimate them to 1 crap-city so that you are the only male on planet.

Maybe: You cannot raze, take or pillage around a city of a boy that has less than 3 (or 2) cities greater than then 4/6/8/10/12 (ancient/middle/renaissance/industrial/modern age). So you can cripple them that they can't lead a war for ages but not kill them. If a girl wants you to declare war on someone who is almost dead you can only attack his forces outside the cities.

Reason: Which majority of girls does like violent guys? As the best suitor you need to be at least a little sensitive and nice ;-)

My proposal ...

 

[GreyFox]

From my limited experience with Civ4, the way I see relationships is that the two most important factors are war and religion. Thus, I suggest we try two things:
(1) get the girls into one religion with us, and (2) war with the guys.

Religion - We can do this in multiple parallel ways. The obvious way is of-course to grab most of the religion always for denial and only spread one to the lady. However, with Hatty and Bellla, they wouuld most likely get one themeselves. I think we would most likely need to swicth to free religion in the later stages. In the earlier stages, we can just go with the majority, and try to spread that as much as possible.

War - to directly answer ruff, I think our objective is not to decimate tommy or Alex or nappie. Our objective is to draw the guys to war and bring the ladies in, so that we have the "common struggle" plus points. Also, the war will drag the ladies down, and we are in a better position to shower them with favourable tech trades and gifts when they are trailing, right?

 

[GreyFox]

Reason: Which majority of girls does like violent guys? As the best suitor you need to be at least a little sensitive and nice ;-)

For the sake of argument , I humbly disagree. Throughout human history, its common for guys to fight it out to prove their worthiness to a lady. In animals world and some anicent tribes, its common for females to go for the male which demonstrate the strongest prowess.

I think females secretly want guys who are violent (towards other guys, that is). But hey, I am no female myself!

But you do reminds me, we have to be careful in warmongering not to fall victim to the "-2 You declared war on our friend!" trap.

 

[culdeus]

I still say we need to take Toku for no other reason than he's gonna be trying to expand our way. Fast. That civ is hopeless. We can work the religion angle with the two surviving civs to our benefit by giving them confuc. or something else. This will require OB which we don't have with either.

 

[ruff_hi]

I think there should be a rule that you cannot kill too much of the boys or decimate them to 1 crap-city so that you are the only male on planet

Nope - I don't agree. The object is to be better liked by all the girls than any of the boys. We can do this in two ways ...

1) girls like us more
2) girls dislike other boys more

War is important for the 'mutual struggle' (as suggested by GreyFox). But we need to war WITH the ladies and not just against the men. I have no problem putting the guys on a starvation diet.

The main aim of this SG is to work out the relationships.

 

[Pvblivs]

Of course you've got to fight. I completely agree. And of course you fight against the boys.

What I am asking is, if it is allowed to eliminate boys that way that girls simply do like you more because there is no other boy.
I think this would be too easy a task because it is nothing else but selective domination.

 

[culdeus]

Things I've never bothered to look into very much that we will need to understand is what diplo things have a half life. I.E. if you go to war with someone does that +X stay with you for how long afterwards. What if you declare peace before they do what happens.

Izzy's religion modifier is well known. We need to use that right away by evangalizing the other boys whether it be 3 and declare war when asked or 2 and kill of Tok right away. Either is fine and personally I don't think we have a great chance of wiping the floor with Naplolean alone. He's off to a better start albeit with no wonders.