~ SG: Utopia of Babylon ~

[donsig]

Note - I don't think the Germans have horsies. Never seen any kind of German horse unit.

I guess this resource shortage thing can work for us as well as against us.

 

[Charis]

We can forget about attacking Germany now. In fact, if they attack us now, we'll be hardpressed to contain them, at their several entry points.

I think, Knight-Dragon, you will be *very* happy to find out that this statement is wholly inaccurate. You'll love the read this turn...
---

The weed police were tired of continually investigating the line of Charis
and just for kicks they looked into the theft of Bach. Their finding gives
the award of one "weed medal" (anonymously, for they seek not to blame
but to root out and eliminate weed sources!). On the 750AD save turn,
there was found to be an... entertainer cutting up jokes in the pub whiles his
friends. Medal number three for working a no-shield water square instead of a

plains square. Each of those accounts for 1 lost turn. With an extra worker or two

in place and some irrig mined, another turn. The investigation shows that with

these improvements the Babylonians finish their *choice* of Leo
or Bach's in 860 AD, two turns early, beating France to both. The weed inspector
got a little too close to the weed though, when it looked like a worker was
chopping down a forest (which not only has wasted shields for a wonder or palace
but reduces from 2-shields to 1), but he was only making a road The inspector
is fired and Charis is told to get on with his turn...

Charis 'the Hammer' Hammurabi tells this mathhead to quit his yapping and help
him figure out a way to kill those Germans!!!

890 AD (0) - The army general is wondering why Navigation and not democracy with
nowhere left to colonize and no one left to meet, but no one listens. When
he points out it's an optional tech we have really no use for at all,
a few more do wonder as well... Actually kicking back slider a minute shows
we're 38 turns away at min science, so not into it at all. A rare tech veto
occurs, and we'll take Metallury in 4 instead of Nav in 8. Cannons are one
answer to Muskets and Cavalry (which requires Metallurgy then Mil Trad) is
the final answer The hammer literally begs Bizzy to wait 8 turns
until we get Mil Tradition then ask again for tribute! Peaceful Prairie and
Jungle Fish are put on Courthouses due to big but recoverable waste problems.
Same thing in Shun-Kharand (instead of aqueduct when food surplus is zero).

Diplomacy. France and England lack the cultural benefit of a RoP with
our glorious nation. France is delighted to pay 65 gold for this benefit.
England can't even consider one?? Ah, no embassy. Same with Persian, the other
ones who "look annoyed." Aha! No longer annoyed, but polite. The new happy
Liz will give us map gold and Metallurgy for our extra silks. Downright
gracious, she is! Xman has nothing to offer us. Hmm, Americans are on our
border and in a war with France. France lacks horses. Joanie would consider
it a 'personal favor' if I could make way to send her some studs
And she'll even pay for it! All her gold (60) and 17 gpt. Now we study
Military Tradition. Just 8 turns away. (Bring it on Bizzy!) Better make
some extra knights to prep for upgrade. Zero catapults to upgrade to
cannons?? Ok... It now makes sense why seeing muskets in Germany
leads some to think war would be hopeless.

900 AD (1) - Cleopatra offers a hardy belly laugh. Why do folks think that
the Hammer is a patsy?! A "deal" wherein we pay territory map and 23 gold
and she not crush us?? rotflmao She does not follow through on her
threats when I politely totally ignore her. Soooooo much stuff we need,
aqueducts, courthouses, workers, horses, pikes, it boggles the mind, and Cleo
thinks I have time to deal with this??!

910 AD (2) - Adjust cattle crossing, using a hill to get us an even 20 shields.
HA!! Finally, someone around here who understands the TRUE nature of the
situation with the Hammer in charge of Babylon. Cologne, utterly impressed
by our culture (and scared for their life) yearn to join us!!!!

A defection!! [dance]

Kudos to founders of Shun-Kharand and Jungle Fish!
Frankfort is getting even more nervous!

920 AD (3) - Germany cuts off our supply of incense and RoP. Bizzy?? Were
you looking to jack up the price some, because, well, I've been meaning to
talk to you about this, and I was wanting to cancel your RoP anyway. Having
your uncultured slobs trapsing through our land does nothing for us. We
need no ongoing committments with you, thank you very much. (And yet...
his people are in awe of our culture). He's Furious??? What on earth did
we do??? YOU cancel out of the deal and I politely say "I understand." ???
(Our mil advisor whispers... their army is about same size as ours)

Baton down the hatches folks. War is coming, and we won't have to start it.
But by cracky... we're sure going to END it when it comes!!
Wow, and no impact from the loss of German pungent weed?! Our people are
strong and happy!

Wheat River finishes the Forbidden Palace!
And it starts a... barracks!
Across the land we review effects of corruption, and whether to be building
improvements or military... Almost nothing to change, except Bablyon from
Univ to Knight. If it DOES come to war, Frankfort is our first target,
to secure the Saltpeter. With Frankfort, Munich and Hanover captured,
we could even finish the job later.

930 AD (4) - Pheasant Flats expands it border, but the saltpeter stays under
German control.

950 AD (6) - Tensions still high, but no outbreak... What is Germany, with
tech parity, researching? If Mil Tradition and they get before the
saltpeter war is over, it will cause pain that need not occur.

960 AD (7) - Military Tradition has arrived! We start Printing Press with
an eye towards Democracy (cough, after the war).

Americans land on our Island to battle for Toulousse of France.
Diplo? Hmmm, suddenly EVERYONE has Physics. It jumped from 7 turns to the
min 4 here. We purchase from France for 5 gpt. We're the only one with
Military Tradition, and lest it make it around to our enemy, I keep it
that way for now.

Bizzy?? It's time to talk. We're TRYING, *SO* hard, to live at peace with
you and share our culture... "Share it like you did at Cologne?!" "Can we
help it if the people of cologne choose wisely?! Anyway, you've now got
troops in our territory, I must insist, with an amount of respect commeasurate
with your worthiness for that respect, that you withdraw them at once!
If not it will be treated as a...

GERMANY DECLARES WAR ON THE PEACEFUL BABYLONIANS!!

(to be continued...)

 

[joespaniel]

*drooling*

 

[Charis]

The Hammer says... "You have chosen unwisely!!!!!"
We cut back science to one beaker and save up for upgrades.

960 AD part 2 (ok, the turn is not over afterall) - Our swordsmen take
the first swings, at a fortified warrior outside of Frankfort and...
we lose. Hmmm... ok, that will help with our maintenance cost, says the
Hammer. Next up our glorious Knight, a veteran leads the assault on
Frankfort, and... loses. Incompetence! The Hammer, too weary from talk
and diplomacy and sitting in his castle, leaps on his fastest personal
horse and storms across Pheasant Flats. Word reaches the troops that the
Hammer will lead the army into battle!!! The hearts of those in Frankfort
absolutely melt at hearing this. "Grab that worker!!" "Sir?? He's a civili..."
"Get him!!! Treat him well and share our culture with him!"

A second knight, this time under the leadership of the Hammer, attacks
Frankfort. (Even 'regulars' are far from regular under the keen guidance
of the Hammer!) The wimpering Musketman didn't stand a chance and was
trampled. A vet knight came right behind and defeated the injured musket.
That was it!!!! Two defenders despite a pack of knights two squares away!
It is good that their declaration of war came on OUR turn

Saltpeter? I got ya Saltpeter. And the RAX at Frankfort stands
Did I mention Bizzy has no horses?

Our pike on a hill defeats that initial arrogant warrior. Next the
battle shifts to Berlin where a Sword acculturizes a worker. On to
Munich where outside, a sword kills an archer.
At Hannover, two more workers are captured by Swordsmen (now offiical
called the CP, Culture Police!) A warrior and archer in the fields there
are hunted down by two knights. We'll snag Hannover first, then cut
inland towards Munich.

Hmmmmm... Glacier Valley has been empty, no garrison for how long??
Could this be why everything thinks they can threaten us? Let's send
a Pikeman there asap!

970 AD (8) - Here comes the German response, *streaming* out toward the
front lines. One warrior. One spear. One sword. That's it?????



Egyptians are building Magellan's. (Almost everyone has navigation now)
The Frankfort resistance ends already, so impressed are they with our
fine culture and the fair treatment they receive by our cultural police!

What on earth is a German spear doing on Pristine Island?

20 Gold to upgrade Knight to Cav? What a bargain! Pikeman to Musket
is 60. We'll take all the former we can and if money left, Muskets.
For this turn we're short 1 gold and sell our world map to France for 1.

Hannover only has a spear under that one musket? Smoke and mirrors!!
They scared us off with smoke and mirrors?! lol

980 AD (9) - More Germans come streaming out! Two units. Alas, one is a...
Knight. **WHO** sold them horses?????? They shall pay! vows the Hammer!

Outside Munich, our advant garde cultural police unit is attacked by a
mere swordsman and becomes elite! A galley is seen escaping Munich.

Fishpond is so underwhelmed with the Germans, with his pike finished he
switches back to infrastructure, starting our second of five banks.
Next turn, we'll turn the science back on too.

WOO!!!!!! Baltimore sees how this war is going for the mighty
Babylonians and overthrows their heinous oppressors!!!

(San Fran is next, thinks the Hammer)

We see cannon upgrade is 40, reasonable.

Oh... that Knight. He stopped within 3 move pts of our Cav upgraded
last turn with Frankfort salt. Muhahaha, it dies with celerity.

Two Cultural Police take Hannover! A knight attacked first vs the spear,
but withdrew. Then two spears were acculturized! For some very odd reason,
when first they come over to Babylonian control, virtually all the Germans
do not like the food! Virtual starvation occurs for a while until they get
hungry enough and start to enjoy the food.

990 AD (10) - The streaming Germans this turn? Two longbows come out and
both are needed to take out ONE bowmen. That galley... it just dropped
off one longbow outside Hannover. (Where the resistance has ended)

The cultural police escort the spear on Pristine Island into custody

At Hanover we lose one CP on the longbow, but a bowman evens the score.
Munich is less fortunate, with two cavs running them right over.

Diplo- France and America are flat broke. All have navigation, but no
other new techs. Darn, darn! All have mil tradition, and they did NOT
last turn. I was going to sell them it, but thought, what's one more
turn, I'll let next leader do that at end of this turn. Bah.
Well that's why everyone is now broke except Persia. America has no
salt and France does. I think the tide of their war is about to turn!!
(England doesn't have it but offers us an insulting trade)

We've captured the three cities and have their capital, Berlin,
surrounded. Let's talk peace. They refuse to hear our envoys??!!
Ok, fine, MAKE us take your capital, sheeeeeesh! imp:

We attack, lose one cav, see one retreat, and finally defeat a musket.
The musket showing is hurt, and our 'elite CP' is on hand! He goes at it,
and wins! Underneath however is a Pike. May not be the last one, but...

Next turn Berlin shall fall!!! The Hammer has spoken!

Once Germany is gone (and if it doesn't answer our next envoy it WILL be)
we actually ARE in shape with our mainland and colony island to lay back
and culturize as much as we see fit. Hmm, well that colony island isn't
all ours. Hmmmm... (?!) I wonder what Joanie would think? Joanie, would you
mind if we oversee the goverment there in Toulousse, I mean... afterall,
there's been talk, and the citizens there are really impressed by our
culture. Oh???? You don't mind??? You think it's a good idea? Really?
Oh gosh, well, I admire you too! 20 turns of peace now? You have my word!!!
(She offers Navigation for 37 gold and 6gpt if our next leader is
interested.) Joan please, take our territory map and these meager coins
as a freewill gift! :love2:

You'll notice here that despite being on Berlin's doorstep I keep to the
turns, not even bothering to even out the years, to give joespaniel his
chance at glory

Note-
i. We have one bank and there are now queued up 4. The 50 gpt from Wall Street
would come in massively handy, and we can start that when fifth bank
finishes in 20 turns.
ii. Prisine island is in bad need of more mil units - 3 old fashioned units
to protect 4 cities. May want to rush a gally or a unit there soon.

Good luck!
Charis

 

[donsig]

Great job!

 

[joespaniel]

Nice work Charis!

I especially liked the part where you stopped!

OK, I get to take Berlin, but you won the war for us. Good job.

At Hannover, two more workers are captured by Swordsmen (now offiically called the CP, Culture Police!)

I'll have time to play tomorow, after my root canal.
And no, Im not kidding, Im really having one in the morning.

I'll probably take out Konigsberg too, because thats where the capitol will most likely go after Berlin is "culturally assimilated" at gunpoint.

 

[Sirian]

All that, and THEY declared the war against US. Now that's how to run a diplomatic game.

Oh and by the way... the Forbidden Palace is in Wheat River. Now why would I start building it there if I thought Germany could last the whole game without Choosing Unwisely?

Charis

Joespaniel, make an example of these fools. War to your heart's content! Conquer them, even, if that pleases you. For we are a most diplomatic and enlightened culture, but god help those who think they can push us around when we make a reasonable request of them, such as "get off our land".

:shotgun:

- Sirian

 

[joespaniel]

There's not much war left to do.
Charis pretty much took care of it, and thats fine with me.

The really hard part will begin after my turn:
Getting 200,000 cultural points!

Great Wonders are really going to make the difference, we better build most, if not all of them.

And lots of grainaries.

 

[donsig]

Hey, I thought a cultural win was 100,000 points? BTW if a city gets 20,000 cultural points, is that a win?

Signed,
A Confused Warmonger :rocket:

 

[joespaniel]

Back from the dentist, and its a good thing I am typing and not talking. Damn novacaine.

I am not sure if its 100,000 points or more, nor about the one-city thing either. Sorry, I guess I should have found out before starting a culture game, eh?

Does anyone know for sure?

 

[Charis]

A cultural win is declared, when it is enabled, when either...

a) you have >= 100,000 culture points for your civ, *AND* more than double the next nearest civ

or

b) >= 20,000 culture points in one city

For the latter, you need to start *EARLY* with wonders and get the temple, cathedral etc done asap. Might be rough here, but not impossible. Don't "Spread around" culture generating wonders if you go for this route, get them in your capital
In rbd5 we had a medium-good cultural start and were keeping all win options open. In the late 1800's it started to look like conquest might not make it and it now looks like a one-city culture win is due around 1970.

For the former, if right now we don't have a big cultural advantage over the other civs, don't expect one to magically appear If just ONE other civ is close, then for a cultural win you'll likely need to eliminate that one.

We're now entering the second millenium in our game here, and because of the 1000 year bonus, you *really* wanted your basic culture buildings finished by 750 AD. It's 990 AD and we either just started or just finished our university in Babylon 8-\
Add that to missing Bach, and we really have our work cut out for us. Hmmm.... our slow expansion, being kind to the Germans, likewise means that NONE of our 'extra' cities will have their temple/library/anything before 750 (or 1000), making the whole-civ culture win rather tough too.

Given how far we bent over backwards to be kind to Germany, and giving them our full wrath when they declared war, I would think a diplo win might be most appropriate. I mean, sheesh, France just *GAVE* me Toulousse when I asked her for it. By supplying them, and later others, with resources, tech, and gifts in their greatest time of need will help them love us.

Once Germany is gone, we have the whole subcontinent to ourselves, and a nice expansion island all to ourselves. We need not war again after the last German city is taken over. We may yet get some cultural flips from American cities, but that's about it. The rest is a building, trading, making others like you game.
That is... if the warmongers don't have other thoughts
(I'm curious -- have you guys pulled out a diplo win in your other SG games?) We'll still need military might and to stay up/ahead in tech, for weak civs are not liked, they are pushed around and attacked. Better to be in the position where heaven help the next civ that threatens us for tribute!

Charis

 

[joespaniel]

(I'm curious -- have you guys pulled out a diplo win in your other SG games?)

No, because we intentionaly played militaristic civs, like Germany.
I started this game for two reasons:
1- I wanted at least one game without constant warfare, and
2 - I wanted to explore other options and strategies within the game.

However, I am not unaware of the things you and Sirian keep pointing out. I just roll with the punches, so to speak, and let everyone do their thing.

I try to make suggestions, but ultimately it falls to the player at hand to decide the course of events.

My playing style is very aggressive, but not irrational. I have a method to my madness, so to speak. I dont see this game as all that different from a military conquest either, we just use libraries and cathedrals instaed of tanks and guns. The cities just keep falling!

I really like the way this game is going so far, and am glad I started it. I appreciate everyones input, Im learning more every turn it seems.

I envision at this rate, a diplomatic victory is quite likely, as long as we continue to keep our word and not threaten anyone (too much).
Culture ofcourse, is the hoped for outcome. We still may be able to do it. We'll see.

 

[donsig]

Well, we did launch a space ship one time.

We can do this culture thing. Just concentrate on getting the 100,000 points. If any country has more than 50,000 points we know what to do.

 

[LKendter]

Well if you want 100,000 culture, you need a hugh city base.

LK13 with 100+ chinesse cities was approaching that in the 1900s!

 

[Charis]

Just concentrate on getting the 100,000 points. If any country has more than 50,000 points we know what to do.

This is just classic!!!

Now I just HAVE to look up the game, one sec... (my fear is all civs are all right about same culture as us)

Hmmm, not bad!!! We're almost double culture of next civs,
with America, France and England being the ones with decent culture (Persia too, and they're also 'strong'). The rest are well behind. America I would predict to see a late game unexpected death. And no doubt we'll play it so they declare war on us! If you want to cripple another AI's culture I would have to say razing their capitol around this time frame would do it! Of course, you can kiss and diplo chance good bye with THAT particular strat!

With our current civ area, we have 11,236 culture and gaining
about an even 200 per turn. Many of those points will double when they reach 1000 year old. If I grab RBD5's save file from 1000 AD (they hit 100K culture around 1950AD), they had only
7930 culture, and were gaining 140 turn. So yes, their big gains came from the next 500 years amassing a lot of little cities. With focused wonder effort you don't need quite as many cities, but in either case, the earlier you own them and start temples etc, the better.

Charis

 

[joespaniel]

The war is over, and we control the continent. Peace reigns.

I prosecuted the war without building a single new unit. All cities were switched to improvements in my pre-turn.

In other foreign affairs, traded France incense for navigation, and incense to Iroquois for Magnetism. Apparently we have quite the monopoly on luxuries now.

Traded silk and gems to America for wine (after they asked for a RoP and alliance against France, I said ), to ensure peace for a little while. Our border is weak and needs beefing up.
WLTK day celebrated everywhere!

Upon discovering Gravity, we were catapulted into a new age and Nationalism took hold in Babylon. Traded France this knowledge for Steam Power.
Joan loves us.

Reinforcements arrived on our island colonies, just in case someone tries to take our Pristine Beaches.

Sold gems to Persia for 60 gold, map and 18 gpt.

Old deals with England and Egypt are about up and should be re-negotiated by Sirian.

Re-neged with Joan for horses at 100 gold plus 7 gpt.

Built so many improvements, I cant remember them all.

Most importantly, Newton's is underway in Cattle Crossing and should be done in 12 turns or so. I think we will beat everyone to it, as I got a small headstart. Lets hope so.

Started on Medicine, as we can probably get Democracy from Joan soon.

Now we need some riflemen to beef up and stay competitive with the Joneses.

Let our culture reign (down on America's head)!

 

[joespaniel]

I rushed the temple in Liepzig as I suspect England will try to grab a piece of that corner with the gems.
Watch it.

 

[Charis]

A *most* fitting end to a glorious campaign!!

(Biz, you chose unwisely)

Very good job, and I thought you might be able to mop up
with no new units. They were already spent, pitiful as that
is. As for those gems, plop down a new city in the forest just
NW of the stationed unit, next to gem and ocean. That'll
fill in the gap nicely. If it takes too long to get a settler there,
block all the open spots with units right away to keep her off. It would ruin our diplomatic intentions to have to beat her to a bloody pulp and throw her body into the harbor

Charis

 

[joespaniel]

In 5 turns the border will expand, but another city to generate culture points cant hurt. Sounds good to me.

To all players - I think theres a chance at 100,000 culture points, but we need more cathedrals and universities, and ofcourse, wonders.

This should become a building game now, with a strong military to keep the vultures away.

There may be some boring turns ahead, thus we can only hope America will grow tired of our superior culture and attack us.

 

[joespaniel]

Its all yours Sirian. Why dont you see what kind of trouble you can stir up.