SGFN-05: A work in progress

[Northen Wolf]

Northen Wolf, what is your issue with rule #7? Please explain, otherwise it's difficult to respond.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=258088&page=14

Can't seem to keep trade reputation.
I have, atm, no idea, what actions are counted as a 'broken' reputation and what are not? As War Academy articles seem to be wrong, I don't know what ruins reputation, what not. Also is there RoP reputation or not?

 

[Optional]

It is a complex matter. I wouldn't expect someone on Regent level to know everything about it. I don't know everything about it. Players with more experience than me and on higher levels than me don't know everything about it.
I'm quite happy and quite comfortable explaining the basics though. These SG games are meant, not in the last place, to improve player's knowledge. Me got a bit of a hangover know, after drinking too much beer watching an exciting football match yesterday. If I feel fresher, I'll try and pen down a few things about trade and trade reputation, using examples. ROP reputation is something seperate, so is attitude. It's worthwhile saying a few things about all of these mechanisms.

 

[Othniel]

lurker's comment:

I have no civ preference. But Portugal a lesser played civ? You play them, Othniel, I play them, Overseer is familiar with them... Portugal seems to have quite a cult following these days.

Ironic that it has a cult following. Not that long ago it seemed they were the forgotten tribe. What qualifies as the least played tribe these days? Hittites? Mursi_lives is the only big fan of them that I know of.

Anyhow, I'm looking forward to seeing some War Elephants in action!

 

[Optional]

What qualifies as the least played tribe these days?

Rome perhaps?

 

[TheOverseer714]

Least played would maybe be England, I haven't seen them in many SG's. As far as rule #7, we will try to follow it as well as we can. Trade rep can be preserved with effort, we want to make sure we don't trade through enemy territory or across sea lanes that can be broken by a 3rd party galley. Sometimes it can be a resource that is being traded depleting, it can't always be helped. If a player blows it, it isn't fatal, but it makes things harder. RoP reputation is easier. Don't declare war if troops are in enemy territory. In all my SG's that these reputations do matter, I've never broken either type. If you read the previous installment, we didn't have rule #7, but if it had been present, we would have followed it to the letter. Does anyone else object to this rule, or the start the war policy of declaring on opponent #1 when we get 5 cities settled? My reasoning for that is this: managed correctly, we will have 20 cities by 0BC, and the AI won't stand a chance at that point. Managed incorrectly, if we wait that long, WE might not stand a chance! It needs to be challenging, but not impossible.

 

[anaxagoras]

I'm good with it. Let's roll a start.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Actually I have 4 decent looking starts rolled and saved and put in a picture. I'm out of time tonight, I will post them tomorrow.

 

[Optional]

Northen Wolf, I had a wee peek at what happened in that other game in which you played, and what you exactly wrecked there.

What you did was declaring war on an AI, while already having units in that AI's territory. The traditional view is that this wrecks your RoP reputation. In reality it's more complex than that, but most players choose to not attack the AI from a position where they are already in that AI's territory, just to be on the safe side.
Although I'm unfamiliar with SG, I would think a decision to declare war should always be a team decision? Maybe in our game it'll be slightly different, as it's already set in stone beforehand when we are going to declare war and on whom. We should make sure not to have any units in that civ's territory when we need to declare war.

Northen Wolf, I saw you were familiar with Microbe's article on trade reputation. That's great, I think it's a sound article.

Then you should know that RoP reputation has nothing to do with trade reputation. You might want to read Microbe's article again, because it's quite clear on that and gets rid of a lot of confusion. I don't think I can explain it any clearer than he has already done, so I'm not gonna try.

Microbe also mentions attitude. The AI's attitude towards us is again something completely seperate. In the game we are about to play we are going to receive quite a few attitude hits. Every time we declare war, the AI will like us a bit less. The civ we are declaring on will probably turn furious immediately, the others won't like it either. I expect most AI civs will be annoyed with us most of the time. They will still be happy to make deals of all sorts with us. If we're in a running 20 turn deal with a civ, they will probably think a bit milder of us. The AI's attitude towards us is not such a big deal.

Another thing: I suggest we consult each other on the tech route we are going to follow (I'm talking to the team now, not just Northen Wolf). Researching Literature or Currency? Chivalry or Theology? These are fairly big decisions, they should be made as a team in my opinion.

Overseer, I'm cool with everything. 5 cities = declare war =
Looking forward to the starts!

 

[TheOverseer714]

Saves are up with a picture showing them, see post 2.

Edit: for ease of reference, I will put the start picture here also.

Spoiler :

 

[darski]

Although I'm unfamiliar with SG, I would think a decision to declare war should always be a team decision? Maybe in our game it'll be slightly different, as it's already set in stone beforehand when we are going to declare war and on whom. We should make sure not to have any units in that civ's territory when we need to declare war.

In a NOW game, you may be involved in more than the "Got-to" war of the title. You would want the team to decide whether to declare or not in that case.

 

[anaxagoras]

I have to think start A is the pick of the litter. One step to the west and we have a settler pump for sure. As tempting as the ivory is in start D, early luxes usually mean early neighbors, and I'd rather have bonus food. The single cow in each of the other starts is helpful, but cow plus floodplain and forest means a running start.

We've got at least two certain, quality town sites in start A. IMO, that's the clear favorite.

 

[Optional]

One step to the west...

Do you by any chance mean northwest? Straight west would take you away from the river. Can you explain the reason for the move? I'm not terribly good at judging starts. I'm quite happy for others making this decision.
I can just make out that there's sugar just southeast of the mountain.

 

[darski]

For a NOW game, I would choose B and move onto the hill. You keep your river, your cow and a defense bonus.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Stepping to the west in start A would get us away from that desert tile and is still on the river. Definitely a settler factory there, +6 food, just going by what is visible. May be a little weak on shields, but otherwise a beauty.

 

[Optional]

Gotyah! I mixed up east and west (slaps forehead). You're moving onto a plains when you go 1 west. And you end up just south of a cow, because there are two cows in this picture. I can clearly make out the hindlegs of another cow there.

 

[darski]

Just for fun. I tried all the starts and in one of them I got this message. I have included the status box so you know the date at which this happened.



Tough neighbourhood!

 

[TheOverseer714]

That is funny, I tested a different save (none of these 4)and that occurred in it also. The zulu can be kind of stupid, and often they pay for it. They will declare at the strangest times.

 

[Northen Wolf]

Northen Wolf, I saw you were familiar with Microbe's article on trade reputation. That's great, I think it's a sound article.

Then you should know that RoP reputation has nothing to do with trade reputation. You might want to read Microbe's article again, because it's quite clear on that and gets rid of a lot of confusion. I don't think I can explain it any clearer than he has already done, so I'm not gonna try.

Spoiler :

(http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=258088&page=15]

It's been my pleasure, CBob.

Northen Wolf, reputation is a tricky thing, and the mistake that you made was one that we've all made. I think you were looking at microbe's article, which was written in 2005. Yes, I think it is wrong on that point.

I don't get it anymore, one refers it might be wrong, other one says it is right? Who is right?

Myth01 is my first SG game, I wanted to try learning SG's and playing civ3, my English is not best nor are my moves, I think what is correct and just do it, I ask questions about simple things. Things that maybe too simple for you, but what I don't know. AFAIK it is point of learning in training/newbie SG's.

begin brainstorming about my next Succession Game for newbies

Another thing: I suggest we consult each other on the tech route we are going to follow (I'm talking to the team now, not just Northen Wolf). Researching Literature or Currency? Chivalry or Theology? These are fairly big decisions, they should be made as a team in my opinion.

*As government monarchy is way to go?
*As for techs -> iron w -> poly. ->monarchy-> literature, should be able to trade for rest of techs, with these(at least with poly). Philo. slingshot might be worth tho.
*Theology IMO beats chivalry as AI usually shoots for chiv. Means it can be traded again.

As from starting locs. I like C and A.

*C as there is forest that might hide bonus grassland, cow near river (commerce) and hill (shields).

*A due it has lot of food, But I'd step one tile west (left of computer screen), as too much floodplains are bad, and sitting in river junction stops unit movement, when it is needed (settlers on road)

Tough neighbourhood!

Maybe they placed capital next to hot mountain, to get some heat, for cooking but it cooked bit too much?

Edit: I've also read almost all articles in war academy...

 

[Rodent]

either A or B, A looks more Powerful because of the huge amounts of food heavy tiles and if i am not wrong, some grassland to the north as Well

Take this as a vote for A

 

[darski]

One problem with A is the Floodplains. It would be really annoying to be about to pop a settler and lose a pop point to disease No Settler! .

If you counted it as your worker/settler city but don't rely on it for much, it could work. Palace moves are rather common these days.