SGFN-06: Brits in Space

[PrinceMyshkin]

I played up to 590BC after 8 turns and am passing along the save as this is a good time to stop. The summary is we've gotten republic and entered the MA also getting engineering from the Germans. We've met the Byzantines and have a galley on the way to meet the last unknown ai the Sumerians. All but fortified units have made their moves, but we have not revolted yet to republic. We have built a library at London and 2 more are near completion. The FP has been started at Hereford and will pick up the pace on its build time once we revolt and start working the iron hill. We are up to 14 workers with four more being built, but have not increased our military losing one net warrior to the barbs who have been a bit of a pain from their base in the southern jungle. The Iroquois have built another town for us in the west and we are up engineering on them. Our deal for wines with them will end in four turns but they are willing to offer ivory to us now for engineering if we wish. We are 3 turns from completing 2 settlers and 2 libraries as well as more workers and a swordsmen so waiting to revolt may be a good idea. We'll have sizable military bases ready for duty as we build-up to face the Iroquois that have already completed their libraries. I've set research to monotheism for now as it is still a monopoly and the Romans and Byzantines are up feudalism on us. We are losing 17 gpt on deals now, but I think this is worth it to get currency and engineering in the MA. Several of the ai's appear to be at war with each other. I think we only need to found three more towns on our peninsula before looking to settle the island to the south or start war. The full turn log is in the spoiler and the save is attached below.

Spoiler :

750BC (0): switch Oxford to a galley from a catapult; switch Dover from catapult to a worker; swtich Liverpool from warrior to a worker; give the wheat to Nottingham and move a citizen from a forest to a mined grassland for growth in 1 and switch build to worker in 1; London picks up mined river grassland and switches to a library due in 8 turns and growth in 5 turns; switch Hereford to Forbidden Palace as it has reasonable shields and can work the iron and incense in Republic to build this reasonably fast; switch citizen in Hastings from plains SE to plains NW to gain a beaker; Ayelsbury gets the irrigated plains and switches build to a worker due in 5 with growth in 4; switch citizen from forest to roaded plains at Stockton on Tees and switch build to worker with growth in 6 and build in 6; switch York to worker as it will grow in 2 but have no developed tile to use; wake warrior at Liverpool and move N; Republic is due in 10 turns at -5 gpt with 78 gold in the treasury

IBT: Nottingham-->worker-library; Germany establishes an embassy with us; they are at war with America;

730BC (1): worker from Nottingham east to chop forest and citizen moved from forest to mined grassland; veteran swordsmen moves W to mountain; settler crosses river S; 3 workers move to road tobacco at Brighton; 1/4 warrior fortifies; regular warrior N to plains wheat; curragh NE-N-E in American waters;

IBT: Abe wants our curragh to leave--ok; Bismark demands 22 gold--he's far away and at war--we say no--he was bluffing; York-->worker-settler; A massive barb uprising near Liverpool as everyone but Germany gets currency; another Iroquois galley enters our waters;

710BC (2): worker completes road at Nottingham and moves NE to chop forest; settler S-SW to mountain; regular warrior NW to plains wheat; swordsmen S to mountain; worker completes road and moves to horse to start mine; worker at Liverpool N-NE to road grassland; curragh E-SE-SE still in American waters; we can buy currency for most of our treasury at 0% science but we refrain for now;

IBT: barb galley enters our waters at Liverpool; Liverpool-->worker-galley(pre-build for next turn-set); Hastings and Hereford grow;

690BC (3): worker at Liverpool moves NW to road horses and stay away from barbs; we awaken the vet warrior who goes SE and spots 2 barb horsemen on jungle to S; the barb camp to the south has 5 barb horsemen and a warrior; curragh SE-SE-E still in American waters; worker completes road on tobacco at London and helps to finish mine there; we awaken regular warrior at Aylesbury and move to Hastings as mp as it is about to riot; worker moves 2 S to sugar at Ayelsbury after completing irrigation on plains; 3 workers finish road on tobacco and move E to Stockton on Tees to help development there; switch Hastings to library to not waste shields;

IBT: Ayelsbury grows;

670BC (4): 3 workers to river grassland near Stockton on Tees; vet warrior goes back to Liverpool; vet warrior E to mountain; vet swordsmen E to mountain; settler 1 W to plains to settle on coast; reg warrior NW covers settler; Ayelsbury gets irrigated plains and Hastings gets river forest for a turn; wake regular warrior at Stockton on Tees and moves toward London for mp duty next turn; curragh N-2NE spots dark red border; switch Ayelsbury back to swordsman as it falls one shield short of building a worker;

IBT: barb horseman moves next to Liverpool; London grows to size5; Dover grows to size2;

650BC (5): vet warrior kills barb horseman losing 2 hp's; vet warrior fortifies on mountain in W to fog-bust and prevent more barb camps; curragh NE-N-E makes contact with the Byzantines they have 13 towns and are up currency/monarchy/republic lacking iron and luxuries--research time on republic drops to 3 turns--Germany still lacks all three techs so we will look to trade just as we learn republic; we found Norwich by game forest and it starts a worker; swordsman SE to mountain; workers complete mine on tobacco and move 2SW to chop plains forest;

IBT: forest chopped for 10 shields at Nottingham; Theodora wants us to leave--ok; Iroquois settler pair moves to incense hill in W from galley; barb horseman loses to our 2/4 warrior which promotes to elite; Stockton on Tees-->worker-library; Iroquois complete the SoZ at Niagara Falls; Nottingham grows to size5; York grows to size3;

630BC (6): London gets the wheat back and will grow in 2 and still get library next turn; Nottingham works bg and gets mined grassland; worker at Nottingham starts road on bg; swordsman E to Ayelsbury; 3/5 warrior takes a hp off horseman, but loses--barb will do some damage to us next turn; our curragh moves E-SE-E still in Byz waters; worker starts mine on grassland at York;

IBT: forest chopped for 10 shields at Nottingham; Iroquois found town on incense hill next to volcano in the west; Liverpool ransacked for 3 gold and 2 barb horseman moves next to it; London-->library-settler;

610BC (7): swordsman 2S to help deal with barbs; worker starts irrigation at Ayelsbury; worker completes road on horses at Liverpool and moves N next to Iroquois town to avoid barbs; curragh moves E still in Byz. waters; we lower the science slider to 50% for republic next turn; Germany still lacks all techs so we'll buy currency on IBT and sell to them and then look for other trades if possible; awaken vet warrior and move to road near Newcastle-on-Tyne; workers complete mine and Stockton on Tees and move west to mine another river grassland;

IBT: 10 shields chopped into Hastings; Iroquois ask our worker to leave--ok; barbs steal 5 gold at Liverpool and 3 more appear next to it; we learn republic and enter the big picture; we turn the slider to 0% giving us 50 gold and 44 gpt to bargain with; Abe gives us currency + 6 gold for 22 gpt; Bismark gives us 94 gold for currency; Bismark gives us engineering for 5 gpt + republic + RoP; Abe gives us 12 gpt for engineering; we stay in despotism for now; Newcastle on Tyne-->worker-galley(pre-build?); Oxford-->galley-worker(growth in 5 and build in 5 and Oxford still unconnected); Dover-->worker-worker;

590BC (8): move our galley E-3NE as we can make contact with unmet Sumerians in three turns sail to the east; swordsman 1 S just north of stack of 3 barb horsemen set to hit Liverpool; worker from Dover N to build road and connect to empire out of range of barbs; worker N to wheat to help connect Norwich soon; one worker starts road and one starts irrigation at Hastings which switches citizen to incense for now; curragh moves around Cape to the east and finds Constantinople;

View attachment SGFN-06_PrinceMyshkin_590BC.SAV

 

[Rodent]

I would say Things are Taking a Turn for the better.

Do we wait until Feudalism and MI to take Action on Iroq?

 

[TheOverseer714]

Are we ready for Republic, or do we need more roads? Were you able to analyze with Civ Assist 2 as to a rough estimate on our readiness for Republic?

 

[Optional]

I believe those deals were good, and that we can switch to Republic after the London settler. Republic will make our libraries more worthwhile.

I have a slightly different take on expansion: I would settle the other island first, as more towns will aid our unit support, while AI towns there will aid the AI's unit support.
Our peninsula is ours anyway, and we could have prevented the Iroquois from settling Kahnawake, but then maybe they would have gone to the other island, I don't know.
York can be mm'd to produce a settler next turn, and I would use the galley in front of York to sail it to the other island. I would find it a waste to send the galley on curragh duty to meet the Sumerians. We can meet the Sumerians in a different way: we're already planning to buy Ivory for Engineering from the Iroquois; Hiawatha is willing to throw in an RoP, so then we can send a warrior through their territory to meet the Sumerians, and pick up some terrain knowledge along the way.
We're not going to war with the Iroquois soon, as I'm seeing both our barracks towns are producing a library - perhaps we shouldn't even have built a barracks in Hastings, as barracks > library is a bit strange.

Watch out, Rodent; you need to mm quite a bit. Like London is about to riot and needs a scientist, and that town south of York can have York's wheat while York is switching to higher shield tiles to produced the settler in 1 turn. And then Hasting needs the sugar back the turn after to still produce the library in that turn.

 

[anaxagoras]

I agree with Optional's plan for York and settling the island. It would be a shame to use our only available transport for exploration when we can use it to make more towns. Bring along the spear, and later we can ferry a worker across, as well. Settle the horses to keep them away from Hiawatha.

I actually like the barracks->library combination. It means we can produce science while we are building units. Of course, it also means we need a little more time to have an effective combat force. On the other hand, as soon as the libraries come in, I think we should prepare for war as soon as possible. We aren't going to be getting any stronger relative to Hiawatha, and he's really our only legitimate target. I also think we want to eliminate the two-front threat he poses.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I agree that the Island having both Horses and Iron means that we need to settle those resources as a means to play keep away from the AIs. The less AIs can build Mounted Warriors, Knights and Cavalry, the better for us. As it is, I expect we will be facing Pikes and Maces by the time we go after the Iroquois.

 

[Rodent]

Got it.

What I gather-

Settle Island ASAP

Build Barracks and Libraries and get some Production going.

Change to Republic after builds finish.

MM a bit

Anything else you require of me?

 

[Optional]

Don't forget to buy Ivory for Engineering and their gold from the Iroquois. I would do that straight away; everybody else already has Engineering.

And watch out for mouse traps! I like your new avatar.

 

[Rodent]

Spoiler :

May the Rat Gods go with us on this Turnset.

Turn 0-London Hires a Geek

Hastings Switches to hill for 1 turn to let York finish Settler in 1 turns.

Oxford gets Wheat of York.

Everything is done. Pressing Enter

IT- Liverpool Gets Sacked Thrice. we lose 30 gold. we will lose more next turn.

Turn 1- York-Settler->Worker (4 turns)

14 Workers for 13 cities is still not good.

warrior and Settler load up in Galley (warrior is york's MP. We have 2 Luxes, shouldnt be a problem)

IT- We lose 7 gold.

Turn 2-Hastings-Library->Sword ( 5 turns)
Brighton-Worker->Worker ( Probably not the wisest Choice, but that seemed the most Attractive build available) ( Due in 10 turns)

Move Workers South towards Undeveloped Areas.

IT- Stockton gets 10 shields from Chop

Turn 3-London-Settler->Rax

Nottingham-Library->Sword
Aylesbury-Sword->Sword

Oxford gets angry, Geek hired.

I forgot to Trade Engg earlier. I am not Punished and get Ivory + 35 gold.

Our Settler galley finds a Barb Galley. Rat Gods, Save us!

I start the Revolt for a Republic. 6 Turns of Anarchy, At least I get 1 turn with Republic.

We are still losing 15 Gpt.

Hire a Single Geek in Nottingham and Taxmen everywhere else to control our NGPT.

IT- our Galley is Sunk, maybe a Sacrifice to RNG gods might be in Order.

Hiawatha also gets a foothold on Our Island.

Turn 4-Nothing much, But I am upset over Our Galley Sinking. I hope I will not be blamed.

Turn 5- I am not sure what happened, But It seems that the Ivory isnt as Effective as the wine, most cities start Rioting. WTH? Change Scientists to Entertainers.

Only Hiawatha seemingly can get to the Island, So i think we have a chance still.


Turn 6-Nothing

Turn 7- Take Measures and Reduce our Deficit to 9 GPT

Turn 8- Nothing much

Turn 9-We are now a Republic. put Slider to 20% and Monotheism is in 41 turns. Begin Lone Scientist Research on Seeing this.

Lux slider goes up to 20%

Lone Scientist is in Norwich.

The Iroq,Theodora,Rome and Mongols have Feudalism now.

IT- Iroq and Sumeria sign Military Alliance vs Rome. Interesting and good for us.

Turn 10-Worker->Galley (6 turns)

We have Contacted Sumeria. He Has Monotheism as well. Damn him.

That ends the Proceedings.

This game is getting Harder by the Minute.

Perhaps my Praying to the Rat gods angered the RNG gods

And I have Changed my Avatar Again, Hope this one looks better.

 

[anaxagoras]

I understand from reading another thread that Northen is once again hors de combat. I'm sorry to hear that, and I hope he recovers quickly.

Meanwhile, I believe that makes it my ups, correct? I won't be able to play until tomorrow night at the earliest, and I may not be able to look at the save at all until then. So post your strategy suggestions, and I'll field them as I am able.

 

[Optional]

Where's the mouse? Is this the animal that ate the mouse?

Getting our galley sunk was just bad luck. Even on Demigod galleys and curraghs usually survive 1 or 2 attacks. In a recent solo game I lost 5 warriors in a row attacking the same barbarian, and in this game my success rate against them was only 25%, so I'm puzzled where that 25% bonus strength against barbs is, but ships still have a decent chance, from what I've seen.
But it's just the human player that gets bothered more by barbs on higher levels, the AI civs still almost invariably win.
I need to have a look at that save; we had hoped we could get Monotheism in quicker than in 50 turns, as we started research on max?
The Iroquois and Sumeria have been in an alliance against Rome before. I think Sumeria has been fighting non stop. I would be surprised if Rome could take all of this.

 

[Northen Wolf]

Yeah I am in hospital I'm great. De-assign me to lurker status, I'm still reading what you guys do.

 

[anaxagoras]

Sorry, folks. I didn't get this last night, and I have rehearsal tonight, so I probably won't get to the game until tomorrow night. If that's too long, I'm happy to swap with someone.

Otherwise, count on tomorrow.

 

[Optional]

There's no rush, I think. Or at least I don't mind a slow moving SG.

I had a look at the save. We can still get Monotheism in 20 turns or so, if we drop the lux slider a bit and hire the odd scientist. I think that's what we should do. Otherwise we should have built marketplaces instead of libraries.

London is a touch too big at size 6, but we can get another settler out of there, and maybe a couple of workers after that. Only if our peaceful expansion is really over I would build a barracks in London.

Sumeria is as big as we could expect: an Agricultural, Scientific civ with the Pyramids. They will play an important role in this game, and we should try and use their strength to our benefit

 

[anaxagoras]

Ah, heck. I played the entire set, and it turns out the file is corrupt. I can't recreate the set at this point, and I have some knowledge that would affect a replay (granted, in a minor way, but it is the principle). The files haven't been corrupt in the past, so I just assumed they were still clean. Stupid me. Someday I will learn to check every time.

Can someone take this set and swap with me, please? Sorry folks. I tried for half an hour to try to figure out a way to scrub a game in progress, but as far as I can tell, it just can't be done. Even the autosave did not function.

 

[Optional]

That's annoying for you, Anaxagoras. But I guess that means I'll play, and then you can go after me. So: got it.

 

[Optional]

I'm having some mishap as well; I already typed a full turnlog, then my internet connection failed me. I need to remember to keep pressing 'preview post' to see whether My connection still works. Here's my second attempt:

Spoiler :

England, 390BC, Republic.
Our military:
1 settler,
16 workers,
10 warriors,
1 archer,
1 spear,
3 swords,
1 curragh.
33 units total, allowed 13, so we're paying 40gpt unit support.
We're also paying 15gpt to America.
We're researching Monotheism at minimum, coming in in 40 turns.

First I'm turning up the research, as we can get Monotheism much quicker than this.
I'm disbanding 2 regular warriors, 1 in London, 1 in Stockton on Tees, as they're just costing us money.
I'm switching Hastings and Nottingham from swords to horses, and in Nottingham I'm switching a citizen from a tile producing no shields to a mined bonus grassland.
The swordman in Liverpool I'm sending towards the barb camp.

370BC:
Norwich: worker > trebuchet
Disbanding 2 regular warriors in Stockton on Tees + 1 in York.
350BC:
London: settler > settler
Disbanding another regular warrior in Nottingham.
330BC:
Nottingham: horseman > horseman
Our swordsman in the south takes the barb camp + 25 gold.
310BC:
Hastings: horseman > horseman
IBT: An Iroquois settler pair enters our territory at Nottingham. I let them, as there's nowhere for them to go.
290BC:
Dover: worker > worker
The London settler is now waiting in York for the galley to complete.
270BC:
York: galley > worker
The settler can now board the galley and sail to the other island, with a sword as escort.
What I'm seeing now is that Ravenna, Julius' town on our peninsula, has become the Roman capital.
250BC:
Nottingham: horseman > horseman
Aylesbury: swordsman > horseman
Brighton: worker > library
IBT: Rome complains about our passing galley.
230BC:
London: settler > settler
York: worker > galley
IBT: Gilgamesh complains about our curragh.
An Iroquois medieval infantry is now entering our territory at Nottingham. The settler pair that came earlier has retreated again.
210BC:
Hastings: horseman > horseman
I'm blocking the Iroquois medieval infantry, as we don't want the Iroquois to take Ravenna.
We are founding Penzance at our southern tip (this was the settler that Rodent had waiting in York).
IBT: Bismarck wants to extend our RoP. I decline.
Hiawatha complains about our passing galley.
Sumeria has completed the Knights Templar in Ur.
190BC:
nothing

Our military now:
2 settlers,
20 workers,
4 warriors,
1 archer,
1 spear,
4 swords,
4 horsemen,
1 galley,
1 curragh.
38 units total, we are allowed 14 units, so we're paying 48gpt for unit costs.

Notes for next player: mm looks a little weird now, with some towns working coastal tiles where they normally shouldn't, but this is purely done to get Monotheism in next turn. Please swap tiles back to normal when the tech is in. Some civs haven't got Monotheism yet, but whether a reasonable deal is possible is something I don't know.
There's a settler of ours ready to settle IMO just next to that Iroquois town, and there's a settler pair ready to drop off on the other island next turn.
Iroquois are still at war with Rome. My opinion is we can better block Iroquois military from entering our territory, as we would be better off keeping Ravenna to ourselves.

 

[Rodent]

Iroquois are still at war with Rome. My opinion is we can better block Iroquois military from entering our territory, as we would be better off keeping Ravenna to ourselves

Not to mention they make an excellent excuse for DoW when we need it

Looks like a good Turnset. We have 8 attacking Units, we should boost it to at least 20+ if we get into a tangle with Hiawatha (which we will soon, I guarantee it )

Now Anax gets to play a new turnset.

 

[Optional]

A problem for us in this game is that the two biggest guys are also best friends. Hiawatha and Gilgamesh I'm talking about, of course.
That's something I would like to do something about. I don't think we'll get anywhere in this game as long as those two continue to help each other.
So I would declare war on Gilgamesh and get Hiawatha in an alliance against him. That wouldn't be a cheap alliance, I think. Would destroying Rome - and thus ending the alliance between Hiawatha and Gilgamesh - make it any cheaper? I don't know. Well, we want Ravenna anyway.
I would favor researching as horizontal as possible - that means researching Theology now - in an attempt to get monopoly techs in for our position on the negotiation table.
We are weak compared to everybody (well, probably not Rome), yet we are almost 3 times over our support limit, so we need to be shrewd and can't rely on brute strength.

 

[Rodent]

You know, the DOW from Hiawatha will come soon, Getting Gilgy vs him will really wear them both down, considering their UUs, We then pick a Spot and launch a small offensive, maybe just for 2-3 towns.

Keep our long term goal in Mind, We need good productive land for Space Race, and we need land to keep up with Demigods.

War is also the solution for our Unit Support Woes

Agree with Optional that we should Research Horizontally.