SGn00b - for those new to SG's

[Admiral Kutzov]

Ok, where in the name of (insert name of whoever our god is in this game, I can't remember) did my post from earlier go? And Sadan's? I've had posts on other threads I asked to be removed, and they never were....and here, it just dissapears....in the smoke...

Depends on who ya know....

Anyway I think I set us back pushing against the odds. It was so freakin close...

Turn 262 (1160 AD)
Horse Archer defeats (1.20/6): Incan Axeman
Horse Archer loses to: Incan Archer (2.16/3)

Turn 263 (1165 AD)
Tech learned: Feudalism
AK: Mansa comes to dicker. Trade Machinery to him in return for Feudalism and 20g
War Elephant promoted: Combat I
Horse Archer promoted: Medic I
AK: Homer J. Simpson continues his trek to Texcoco
Cho-Ko-Nu promoted: Drill III
AK: Sell Mono to Juliuse for 160g to improve our relations. Julius should get whatever semi-reasonable demand he makes as he is our best friend at cautious.
Beijing grows: 13
Good Enough grows: 7

Turn 264 (1170 AD)
Angle's borders expand
Horse Archer loses to: Incan War Elephant (5.76/8)

Turn 265 (1175 AD)
AK: Huayna's hephaluump takes out a horse archer
War Elephant defeats (1.60/8): Incan War Elephant
Guangzhou finishes: War Elephant
War Elephant loses to: Incan Catapult (5.00/5)
Horse Archer loses to: Incan War Elephant (6.96/8)

Turn 266 (1180 AD)
Guangzhou begins: War Elephant
Tech learned: Code of Laws
Swordsman loses to: Incan Catapult (0.60/5)
Horse Archer loses to: Incan War Elephant (5.20/8)

Turn 267 (1185 AD)
Research begun: Guilds
Catapult promoted: City Raider I
War Elephant defeats (3.92/8): Incan Archer
Texcoco's borders expand
Texcoco's borders expand
AK: drop CB in Texcoco
Swordsman loses to: Incan Archer (2.37/3)
AK: lose a sword at cuzco
Swordsman loses to: Incan Archer (1.20/3)
AK: and another
Horse Archer loses to: Incan Archer (0.57/3)
Horse Archer defeats (3.66/6): Incan Quechua
Good Enough finishes: Cho-Ko-Nu
Ironchou finishes: Lighthouse
Angle finishes: Barracks
Catapult loses to: Incan Catapult (4.00/5)

Turn 268 (1190 AD)
Good Enough begins: Courthouse
Ironchou begins: Courthouse
Angle begins: Courthouse
Machu Picchu begins: Courthouse
Cho-Ko-Nu defeats (2.58/6): Incan Archer
War Elephant promoted: Medic I
Horse Archer loses to: Incan Archer (1.77/3)
Christianity has spread: Texcoco
Worker loses to: Incan Chariot (4.00/4)

Turn 269 (1195 AD)
War Elephant promoted: Combat I
War Elephant promoted: Combat II
War Elephant defeats (3.44/8): Incan War Elephant
War Elephant loses to: Incan Archer (2.67/3)
Cho-Ko-Nu defeats (2.94/6): Incan Chariot
Archer defeats (0.84/3): Incan Chariot
Beijing grows: 14
Catapult loses to: Incan Axeman (4.05/5)
Cho-Ko-Nu loses to: Incan Archer (1.32/3)
Catapult defeats (1.50/5): Incan Archer
Cho-Ko-Nu defeats (2.10/6): Incan Archer

Turn 270 (1200 AD)
Cho-Ko-Nu promoted: Guerilla I
Guangzhou finishes: War Elephant
Angle grows: 5
Catapult defeats (2.95/5): Incan Spearman

Turn 271 (1205 AD)
Guangzhou begins: Courthouse
Ironchou grows: 4
War Elephant defeats (3.44/8): Incan Archer

Turn 272 (1210 AD)
War Elephant promoted: Combat I
War Elephant promoted: Combat II
War Elephant loses to: Incan War Elephant (0.40/8)
Cho-Ko-Nu promoted: Drill I
Cho-Ko-Nu promoted: Drill II
War Elephant promoted: Charge
War Elephant defeats (5.04/8): Incan Chariot

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Lord_n00b_AD-1210.Civ4SavedGame

Apologies to all. I was drinking and civing when I played this.

 

[Pie-es-Tasty]

I got the save, and I'm not posting when I'll play, because if I do, it'll be a lie.

 

[Pie-es-Tasty]

What do you know, I managed to play right after I posted. It's a miracle.

Turn 0 (1210 AD):
It seems that Cuzco is about to fall to us, so I’ll finish it off next turn. I think we should have built up more than this before attacking, but we didn’t, so here we are. Okay, why is Beijing building the National Epic? We’re in a WAR. Switch to Cho-Ko-Nu. Those courthouses seem to be taking an awful long time. I’ll whip them out in a couple turns so they only cost two population instead of three.

In Between Turns: Chariot attacks our stack at Cuzco and withdraws. Some units move into reinforce Cuzco. Huayan Capac asks for a peace treaty, but that’s because he knows he’s doomed. I reject.

Turn 1 (1215 AD):
Bombard Cuzco defenses again. Hmm… this city may be difficult to capture. I decide to wait for reinforcements.

Turn 2 (1220 AD):
Cho-Ko-Nu finishes in Shanghai, start another. It’s going to take a while for it to get to the front lines. Worker finishes pasture, starts road. Other Worker finishes road, starts cottage. Fortify archer in Guangzhou.

Turn 3 (1225 AD):
Hmm… they have more defenders in Cuzco now… maybe I shouldn’t have waited. Too late now. Promote archer in Shanghai to City Defense II and fortify it.

In Between Turns: Those bastards! They suicide a catapult and attack and kill our Cho-Ko-Nu with the other, then attack with a War Elephant and kill ours! We should have waited for war; we really don’t have enough troops.

Turn 4 (1230 AD):
It looks like the whole Incan army is in Cuzco. I really shouldn’t have waited. There are only two catapults left, both wounded. Let’s retreat in an organized fashion while there’s still time. I call up Huayan and try to get a peace treaty for all his gold but he refuses. New tactic: pillaging war. We’ll cripple his economy, then capture his cities after we get a chance to rebuild.

In Between Turns: Our remaining catapults are killed. We now have no army, except for one Cho-Ko-Nu. Chariot pillages our iron mine on the border.

Turn 5 (1235 AD):
Beijing finishes Cho-Ko-Nu, starts Horse Archer. I turn our science down to 70% to reduce gold loss, while still getting Guilds in 2 turns. Move newly built Cho-Ko-Nu to intercept Chariot. Wasn’t there a Great Artist moving towards Texcoco on AK’s turns? He seems to have disappeared, I haven’t seen or moved him at all. Worker starts cottage at Good Enough. I whip the courthouse in Good Enough, time to start producing something else.

Turn 6 (1240 AD):
Kill two Chariots with two Cho-Ko-Nu, heal with promotions. More enemy troops on our borders. I decide that this would be a good time to end the war and get whatever we can out of it. I wring 150 gold out of Huayan for a peace treaty, more than I would have given us had I been in his position.

Turn 7 (1245):
It’s rebuilding-our-army time. I start a Longbowman in Guangzhou (because we, once again, have wet paper tissue defenses), and a Knight in Good Enough. I set our remaining Cho-Ko-Nu to heal.

In Between Turns: Huayan calls us up and demands Theology. What does he hope to accomplish? I tell him to put him demand in an uncomfortable place.

Turn 8 (1250 AD):
Angle finishes Courthouse, starts Longbowman. Shuffle units around.

Turn 9 (1255 AD):
Fortify Cho-Ko-Nu in Shanghai. Hey look, a Great Scientist in Beijing, Ptolemy is his name. I use him to build an academy in Beijing.

In Between Turns: Mansa Musa calls us up and cancels Gold for Spices.

Turn 10 (1260 AD):
Game asks me to queue up a Grocer in Guangzhou, and that’s probably a good idea, I say yes. Beijing finishes Knight; start to finish the National Epic there. Fortify Cho-Ko-Nu there, and sleep the Knight in Beijing.

End of Turn Thoughts:
We probably jumped into a war early, and I also messed up and lost our stack at Cuzco. We need to build up our military again, and then this time utterly destroy the Incans, rather than just annoy them a little. Be sure to build Grocers in our high commerce cities, that’ll help with our gold problem.

Take it away Sir Toma!

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Those bastards! They suicide a catapult and attack and kill our Cho-Ko-Nu with the other, then attack with a War Elephant and kill ours! We should have waited for war; we really don’t have enough troops.

glad to know it isn't just me

Wasn’t there a Great Artist moving towards Texcoco on AK’s turns? He seems to have disappeared,

IIRC, I dropped a CB in Texcoco per team ideas.

I tell him to put him demand in an uncomfortable place.

good answer

also messed up and lost our stack at Cuzco.

me too. I went for it in the face of reason and got u into this perdicament.

nice job cleaning up after me.

 

[Sadan01]

@Pie: Without looking at the save, did you see any other unit-types besides Chariots, Catapults and War Elephants (ouch!)? Depending on what the AI wants to do now, we may find it a little harder for an attack again on the Inca - they will be a little more prepared next time I would imagine; or they may even decide a conquest of our territory is a good idea.

I think ultimately (and echoing what both you and AK have said), we were very unlucky there in those battles, and maybe some smart AI was involved too (see below).

I was playing a SP game yesterday and was attacked by the Japanese from another island. Decided to build a Galley to transport my technically more advanced troops over. I only had one new city located on a body of water to build the galley on except the production time was really bad (like 15 turns per galley or so). So spent most of the time fending off the Japanese attacks (think mosquito bites! ) and then loaded up the galley full of swordsmen. However the Japanese obviously had plenty of galleys to spare so they had two waiting off the coast for me to cross. Everytime I sent a galley out, they'd destroy it and then replenish the galley they'd either sacrifice or damage. Smart AI (of sorts) ...

 

[Sir Toma]

I'll grab the save and play tonight.

My aims:
Build up our miliatary and economy
If possible re-declare war on the Inca.
Any other ideas?

 

[Pie-es-Tasty]

I saw archers and a Quecha, but they are very behind in technology, when I called them up for a treaty there were a bunch of techs we could have traded them, so them being more advanced isn't a problem.

And Sir Toma: Build up some modern defences, along with an offensive army. I think we're getting to the point where archers just aren't going to cut it any more.

 

[Sir Toma]

Well that was one hell of a turn. In short you could describe it as an explosion that has destroyed much of our hard work to fix our economy.

Here we go.


Turn 0 (1260 AD)
User comment: Pre Turn: Check all the cities, everything seems good. End Turn

Turn 1 (1265 AD)
User comment: Mansa offers spices for gold. Why not? We need the plus to relations

User comment: Our cities have hardly any defence, Machu Pichu only has a swordsman. Mental note: build more longbows
Guangzhou finishes: Longbowman
Ironchou finishes: Courthouse

Turn 2 (1270 AD)
Ironchou begins: Longbowman
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison I
Texcoco grows: 3
Angle finishes: Longbowman

Turn 3 (1275 AD)
Angle begins: Longbowman
Tech learned: Civil Service
Beijing finishes: National Epic
Shanghai finishes: Cho-Ko-Nu
Guangzhou grows: 9
Texcoco finishes: Lighthouse

Turn 4 (1280 AD)
Research begun: Gunpowder
Beijing begins: Longbowman
Shanghai begins: Maceman
MONTE DECLARED WAR ON US (i got a screenie of this but it was lost. Damn unreliable print screen )
User comment: Just frick'n great, we're in another war.

Turn 5 (1285 AD)
Texcoco begins: Longbowman
Machu Picchu begins: Longbowman
Archer defeats (2.55/3): Aztec Jaguar
Archer defeats (3.00/3): Aztec Jaguar

The archers managed to hold off untill reinforcements arrived. Phew!

Turn 6 (1290 AD)
Longbowman promoted: City Garrison II
Beijing grows: 16
Ironchou grows: 6
Islam founded in a distant land

Turn 7 (1295 AD)
Cho-Ko-Nu promoted: Drill I
Cho-Ko-Nu promoted: Drill II
Beijing finishes: Longbowman

Turn 8 (1300 AD)
Beijing begins: Knight
Ironchou finishes: Longbowman
Angle finishes: Longbowman

Turn 9 (1305 AD)
Ironchou begins: Longbowman
Angle begins: Longbowman
Knight promoted: Combat I
Knight promoted: Shock
Good Enough finishes: Knight

Turn 10 (1310 AD)
Good Enough begins: Spearman
Time to strike back at Monte
Cho-Ko-Nu defeats (2.76/6): Aztec Archer
Knight defeats (6.60/10): Aztec Spearman
Yay we won!

Christianity has spread: Tlacopan (Aztec Empire)
Christianity has spread: Tlacopan
Captured Tlacopan (Montezuma)

Then again it was one very small victory once i saw this

Summary
At the start of the turn i managed to get our economy going a little but then the Aztecs declared war and that really screwed me up. I have taken the Aztec city below us near the stone but we really need to move lots of troops to Texcoco to combat attacks from Tlaxcala and Teitohuacan.

I suggest that we first halt the aztec advance and then move in and attack Tlaxcala and some of their other cities. However DO NOT for any reason beglect our defence in our cities on the Incan boarder. It would be too good an opportunity for them to miss.

Good luck Pling, see what you can make of the crap i got us into


Just some extra info

 

[Sir Toma]

Oops almost forgot, here's the save

 

[pling]

Eek! OK, I've got the save ... I should be able to play later today I shall try and stomp the heathen Aztecs

 

[Sadan01]

In short you could describe it as an explosion that has destroyed much of our hard work to fix our economy.

Obviously the AI felt threatened by our efforts in economic matters
The game keeps getting more interesting the more we play. First the Inca (which we started) and now Monte (then again, is Monte fighting out of desperation considering his position?). Hrmmm. You know, I personally am not worried by either of these two (unless they join forces to battle us). The AI I am worried about is Saladin. Look back at his rise through the ages until now. He is now 3rd in the rankings (albeit a fair way behind). The Japanese are too far away at the moment to cause a problem (unless they have open borders?)... I wish however I could say we are in a position to fight both of them at the same time. Unfortunately, Civ4's combat system makes that difficult in our situation at present.

Just quickly regarding our financial situation: At 70% sci research and only losing -1gpt with 683 in the bank, I wouldn't consider that bad at all. I wonder how many free mililtary units we get?

 

[BeefontheBone]

One question - seeing as most of the scary enemy units have been elephants, why don't we have any pikemen?

 

[Pie-es-Tasty]

Mansa just canceled that deal, then he offered it again? Silly AI. Anyway, it wasn't your fault that the AI attacked Sir Toma, Montezuma obviously saw a weakened nation and siezed an opportunity. We should build lots of spearmen, and pikemen once we get engineering. We should get a treaty as soon as possible, but only if we don't have to give up anything significant. Actually a good idea is to sic a couple other nations on Montezuma and even Huayan to keep them off our backs.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Good luck Pling, see what you can make of the crap i got us into

glad to know it wasn't just me. Looks like a good job with the hand u were dealt.

upgrade a unit here or there if we need it?

see if anyone will help us?

 

[pling]

Well that was a scary turnset. Thought I'd lost us Texcoco at one point, but all was well in the end

Pre-turn:
Thought about upping Science to reduce research time to Gunpowder, but can only shave 1 turn off it so I don't think it's worth it. Tweaked Shanghai to grow, which adds 2 turns to time till Maceman which we should recoup when we grow anyway. Decided to spend a bit of gold and upgrade an Archer to a Cho-Ko-Nu in Texcoco as the latter has a bonus vs. Melee units and we've axemen on the way, hopefully not a mistake (picked the most upgraded archer after some dithering, so there's still the two city garrison promotions on him).

Turn 1 (1315):
Tokugawa circumnavigated the globe first, damn him
Got rid of one of the Axemen menacing Texcoco with our Knight that handily arrived. Set workers to doing Stuff (including moving one into place to build a road down to Tlacopan).

Turn 2 (1320):
Tokugawa has a Golden Age.
Longbowman arrived in Machu Picchu (I keep wanting to call it Pikachu), I promoted him with 2 City Garrisons and fortified him.
Promoted the Knight in Texcoco (2 Combats, 1 Formation to help with those damn elephants) and fortified till healed (1 turn).
Found some units with movement orders that I hadn't previously noticed - diverted them from Tlacopan to Texcoco.

Turn 3 (1325):
In between turns Montezuma attacks Texcoco! We kill 2 elephants & a jaguar, unfortunately another elephant kills my shiny new Cho-Ko-Nu. Damnit.
Argh! I tried to get rid of another of those elephants with the knight (reasonably good odds) and my Knight died!

Turn 4 (1330):
Monte attacked some more - but my longbowman killed his war elephant.
Beijing made a Knight, set it to make another.
Angle made a Longbowman, set it to make a Spearman.
Tlacopan came out of anarchy, set it to make a Spearman.
Upgraded Texcoco's longbowman to City Garrison 2 (gets some health back with that, too).

Talked to JulyC but he'll not declare war on Monte. He's our best friend (at Cautious ) so I try and make him happier by trading Gems (from us) with him for 4gpt (which brings us back to -1gpt overall).

Crossing fingers & hoping.

Turn 5 (1335):
Thank goodness! The longbowman killed a catapult and 3 elephants.
We get Gunpowder and enter the Renaissance, I decide to research Engineering, we need pikemen.
Good Enough makes a Spearman, I set it to make another.
IronChou makes a Longbowman, I set it to make a Musketman.
I fortify the Longbowman in place with his City Garrison promotion, and move the Spearman out towards a war elephant that's heading our way (with 2 Combat promotions).

Turn 6 (1340):
Monte uses his catapult, but hangs back with the Axemen. We're damn lucky.
I kill that marauding elephant with the Spearman!
A Knight arrives in Texcoco ...
And I tweak Texcoco to improve the hammers it yields (but stagnate it, I figure this is less important than building units right now).

Turn 7 (1345):
This Longbowman is excellent. He just defeated an Axeman too.
We have a Great Scientist! I use him to give us Philosophy (it's on the route to Liberalism, though we may not get the chance to get that first anyway - Taoism was founded in AD930 so someone else is ahead of us).
I leave the Knight where he is (as attacking a Spearman outside Texcoco doesn't look like good enough odds), and move our Spearman in and fortify it (and promote it with Shock as he will likely face Melee units next).

Turn 8 (1350):
Monte attacks with catapult and Axeman. Our marvellous Longbowman kills them both. Monte's spearman runs away.
The Incans have a Great Scientist.
Angle makes a Spearman, I set it to make a Musketman (be nice to have one in every city for defence purposes).

Turn 9 (1355):
I'd sent a Knight to hopefully pillage in Monte's territory, but he killed it inbetween turns (it killed a Spearman, but fell to the Longbowman it was with).
I've sent 2 longbowmen up towards Machu as Monte's sniffing about there. Left a Knight and Cho-ko in Texcoco.
Beijing made a Knight, I sent it towards Machu and got Beijing to make a Musketman.
Gangzhou made a Grocers, I set it to make a Musketman.

Turn 10 (1360):
Nothing much happened except Worker stuff.

Any miltary that has move orders is heading to Machu or Texcoco (we seem to be being lax about move orders, but these should run out within a turn or two anyway). Now Monte's stopped attacking us maybe we should try and get another of his cities?

Here's a couple of screenshots of the current state of our glorious empire:

It looks like Tlaxcala is the most defended of the two Aztec cities we can see, so I'd suggest we attack the other one? We're not doing badly on power:

Roster:

Sir Toma
pling (just played)
Chriseay (Up)
Sadan01 (On deck)
BeefontheBone
Admiral Kutzov
Pie-es Tasty

 

[chriseay]

Ahhh got it. I'm up now in two SG's, on my busiest day of the week. I'll try to play tonight, but it may have to wait till tomorrow.

 

[BeefontheBone]

You still playing, chriseay? We've dropped to page 2 of the subforum here!

 

[chriseay]

My fault, I had a busy couple of days, and then when I had time to play last night I had a brain fart and forgot about the two SG's I'm up in.:thumbdown I plan to play tonight, though at this point I'd be ok with a swap or a skip if anyone else can play now. I can't play until at 330 or 4ish est, 4ish hours from now.

 

[Sadan01]

I'm as I won't be able to play until tonight (Friday - 8:50am here ATM) so that would be another 9-12hrs or so at the very least before I can think about playing. No rush from this end, Chriseay.

 

[chriseay]

Turn 0/1360 AD - Look around, all seems ok, time to get going.

Turn 1/1365 AD - Mansa offers this, I say no way.

Other than that, just workers working. I'm going to try to get out of this war if I can.

Turn 2 /1370 AD - Nothing. Moving a Knight to pillage monty until he gives us peace.

Turn 3/ 1375 AD - Monty is trying to take texcoco. I don't think this'll be enough.

Turn 4/1380 AD - Engineering comes in, I take Banking as the next tech. We also finish a bunch of muskets, they all go as defense. We get 40 gold and 3 gpt for peace from monty. I take it. I'll let the military finish, and then start on infrastructure again,

Turn 5/1385 AD - Nada.

Turn 6/1390 AD - Start on a library in Angle. That city seems like it should be much more built up. I guess all this war'll do it.

Turn 7/1395 AD - Switch to Bureauacracy, Organized Religion, and Hereditary Rule.

Turn 8/1400 AD - 1 more turn of anarchy.

Turn 9/1405 AD - Nothing much.

Turn 10/1410 AD - zzzz

We need many more workers. And we might be falling behind Tokugawa.