SGn00b - for those new to SG's

[Sadan01]

Here is my Got It message. I should be able to play tonight. Girlfriend has decided to get some friends over for drinks, so as long as they all shutup, I should be able to play without any interruptions. If not, or if other males turn up with alcohol , then I'll play tomorrow and post tomorrow, being Saturday.

Sounds like that was a quiet 10 turns there Chriseay, as compared to the prior 2-3 players where war was involved in quite heavily. I've noted that we need more workers, although I cannot look at the save at the moment due to being at work (you all probably know the drill - when doing work, no one is around, but once Civ4 is opened up, all the manager's appear out of nowhere to see what you are doing ).

Edit: I just noticed Chriseay that you have "The Master Trader" as your sig.

 

[chriseay]

The more workers is kinda my mantra anymore, especially when games get into larger empires. All the SG's I play never seem to have enough of them. There are just too many jungles to cut down, and farms to build.....aahh. MUST HAVE ENOUGH WORKERS!!

 

[Sadan01]

Just a bit of a pissed update: It is 1:40am Saturday morning. I've had more scotch than I can ever remember, so this game will have to wait until later today. Looking forward to someone reminding me of this post in a year or two's time. Ahhh, bed-time...

 

[Sir Toma]

Hey guys i'm going away to my grand parents for a few days and won't be able to play civ while i'm there. So can you please skip me until Wednesday afternoon (Aussie time)

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Sadan, still hungover?

please may we have a roster check?

 

[Sadan01]

I'm glad you find it funny AK All self-inflicted and I guess I should know better.

I'm not feeling too good but haven't (well, you asked! )... I haven't had any scotch for quite a while (before last night) so my tolerance is way down.

Well, I am going to have to myself into shape and play soon. Be back later. If anyone has any ideas for where we should go at this point in the SG, let me know.

 

[Sadan01]

If anyone has any ideas for where we should go at this point in the SG, let me know.

Looks like no one had any ideas

IT (1410AD)
Banking due in 1 turn. We have 561 gold have running at 70% research with -6gpt. I can change some citizens around to make that -4gpt however that will impact food production in our cities. Seeing there is no threat to some of these cities falling into unhappiness or unhealth, I'll keep it as is for now.
We have 6 workers - for 9 cities, we will need more. I'll see what I can do whilst keeping the other civ's at bay. As has been stated by others, I do think we need to work on our relations with Julius as he is the most receptive to us at the moment (at Cautious).
He has the tech "Compass" available to trade and he really wants Theocracy from us. I don't think Compass will be really useful for us at the moment - as the harbour will only help Ironchou (as it has clams in its radius). I don't believe in gifting technology to other Civ's unless we were in an alliance of sorts and they needed it. So Julius can remain without ...
Ok onto the turns:

TURN 1 (1415AD)
Mansa Musa appears and wants to trade his spices for our horses.
I think we need the production and the horses could essentially be used against us for Knights etc. I say no. I think this is hilarious however:

The Inca adopt Bureaucracy. Worker near Ironchou on jungle set to build a cottage. Worker near GZ asked, no told, to build a Watermill. Beijing finishes a Musketman. Give it the City Defense promotion for fortified there. Worker near Tlacopan told to build a cottage on tile NE.
Banking comes in.

Start research on Paper (in 4 turns). Aiming for Printing Press for the extra gold.
Start a bank in Beijing (6 turns) - Incidently, does anyone have any detailed information on how exactly the banks work in Civ4 they could give me? Or are there any threads out there?

TURN 2 (1420AD)
Catapult finishes in Shanghai (left promotion available). Set to build a worker (9 turns).
Another working near Tlacopan moved to hill SW to mine. GZ finishes a Musketman. It is given the promotion of City Defense. Another Musketman is queued.

TURN 3 (1425AD)
Worker near Ironchou told to build a cottage.
Worker near Tlacopan told to mine the hill. Another worker there builds a road on 1 tile to the E.
Our maintenance is getting slightly out of control. We are now at -10gpt. I swap a citizen in GZ from producing 4 food to another tile with 2f + 3C. Now at -8gpt. Shuffle citizens around in Shanghai so now we are at -7gpt and the worker is due in 6 turns. Another citizen moved in Ironchou who is stupidly working a tile producting 2F+1C to an ocean tile producing 2F+3C. I should've checked these things before doing anything We are now at -6gpt. Move one more citizen in Texcoco and we are now at -5gpt.

TURN 4 (1430AD)
Ok, do we have the governers automating our citizens? We are now breaking EVEN without me changing a damn thing this turn. Nothing new built this turn. Check cities: Citizen automation (CA) on in Machu Piccu. Turn that off for now although it doesnt matter as all available tiles producing anything of worth are already being utilised. CA is on also in Tlacopan. Leave it on for now as it is only at size 1 and the two best tiles are being worked. CA is also on in Shanghai. I will turn off as the citizen allocation for the worker-build is perfect and I dont want the AI to change it. All the other cities have everything turned off in relation to governers.
GZ celebrates "We Love the Sadan Day" ... errr.. "We Love the Monarch Day".
Nothing else this turn.

TURN 5 (1435AD)
What the bloody hell is going on with our expenses - we are once again at -8gpt.
Worker in Tlacopan starts a road where the newly built cottage is. Another bloody worker there moves to clear the jungle.
Musketman built in Ironchou. Build set to an Aquaduct as we need more health there.
GZ has another turn of We Love Sadan Day. Wonder if they are meat-eaters, Beef?
Paper comes in.

I cannot live without books even though they are now mainly in PDF. Printing Press in 11 turns. Change build to Nationalism for Nationhood (if we want war again) and the Taj Mahal. Due in 12 turns.

NOTE FOR CHRISEAY: We are gaining on Toku in score so I don't think he is a runaway at this time

TURN 6 (1440AD)
We are now at -10gpt - still at 70% science.
We get a Great Scientist in Beijing. Cai Lun is also born in - no not in our empire - in Tokyo. I choose to merge him (the GS) into Beijing as I think that will be more beneficial that using him for 2500 beakers of Education at this time. Education is 13 turns if we were to go that way.
Worker set to chop chop the jungle near Tlacopan.

TURN 7 (1445AD)
Now bloody even again with our finances!
Toko finishes the Notre Dame in Tokyo.
Set another working near Tlacopan to chop another jungle tile.
Musketman finished in GZ - moved to Good Enough as that city does not have any musketmen. It is given the City Defense promotion.
Worker near Ironchou set to remove another bit of filthy, disgusting jungle.
The Bank is finished in Beijing. Set Beijing to build the Angkor Wat (13 turns due to our stone deposits). What?
GZ set to build a bank.

TURN 8 (1450AD)
Fortify Muskie in Good Enough. GE finishes its Christian Monastery. Set it to build a worker in 7 turns.
A library is finished in Angle. Good they can read now as we do have paper (or maybe we use the Paper tech for sanitation techniques?). An Aquaduct is set to be built as we are approaching the health limit.

TURN 9 (1455AD)
Caesar comes to us and wants to trade his Compass tech + 30gold for our Theocracy technology.

Even though we need or more correctly, want him, on good terms, this deal is not going to do it for me. A largely useless tech that we certainly don't need right now and a pittance of gold for a tech where the Wonder has not been build yet? I tell Caesar to tell his story walking... Obviously no relations hit.
Worker finished in Shanghai. Started him moving towards Macca Picchu as we badly need a worker down there.
Worker starts another cottage near Tlacopan.
Worker finishes a Watermill near GZ.
Shanghai set to build a Granary in 13 turns.
Machu Picchu finishes a courthouse. Set to build a forge.

TURN 10 (1460AD)
A nothing turn. I'll leave it here with some workers ready for orders. Don't forget the catapult in Shanghai hasn't been given its promotion.

To summarise:
70% research - now making +3gpt.
Nationalism due in 6 turns.
Angkor Wat (what?) due in 10 turns in Beijing.
Our most "friendly" Civ is the Romans; close behind is Japan and then Mansa. The rest we can forget about.
I'll attached some screenies shortly.

EDIT: Changed the in-game date of Turn 10.

 

[Sadan01]

Here are some more screenies, the roster and the save:

Demographics

Top 5 Cities

Foreign Relations

Roster
Sir Toma
pling
Chriseay
Sadan01 (Just Played like a true )
BeefontheBone (Up Now)
Admiral Kutzov (On Deck)
Pie-es Tasty

 

[pling]

TURN 4 (1430AD)
Ok, do we have the governers automating our citizens? We are now breaking EVEN without me changing a damn thing this turn.

GZ celebrates "We Love the Sadan Day" ... errr.. "We Love the Monarch Day".

I think a "We Love the Whatever Day" means that city doesn't have maintenance costs that turn. Not entirely sure (and I've packed the manual away so haven't looked it up), but that's what I seem to remember.

And re: Banks - don't they just give you an extra 50% gold/turn in that city? Gold rather than Commerce IIRC, and 50% of baseline not % after other modifiers.

 

[BeefontheBone]

I don't recall ever seeing the WLTK days affecting gpt in civ 4 - I think they just ignore it (which is much more sensible really) but I could be wrong. Will play tomorrow - I seem to be up in my other SG too (Fascist variant); lucky it's Sunday tomorrow!

Is there an Academy in Beijing? If not, I'd say one would've been more valuable than a super scientist - higher beaker output and allows a scientist specialist IIRC, plus some culture. If there's already one there, ignore me

Banks (grocers, markets, wall street et al.) all modify your gold output rather than commerce as ever - it's a bit more obvious with the new graphics (whoever decided those icons should be almost identical wants a stern talking-to). I imagine they're all applied to the base output rather than sequentially, in the same was as production bonuses (and now war weariness reduction, I noticed in the last patch changelog).

 

[Sadan01]

Is there an Academy in Beijing? If not, I'd say one would've been more valuable than a super scientist - higher beaker output and allows a scientist specialist IIRC, plus some culture...

When I was playing last night, I don't believe I saw an available option for building an academy. Let me check the save...

Yep, just checked the save and Beijing already has an academy. For a moment there, I thought I really did have a moment.

Actually Beef, while we are on this subject, by the way you wrote that post, it seems like you don't normally use either Great Scientists or Great People in general for discovering techs? Is that correct? If that is not right, when do you use GPs for free tech (or use them for the beakers for that given tech)? In other words, I am looking at what priority you give "free tech" from GPs as compared to the other options. In fact, I'd like to hear what everyone else does in this case too.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I think that will be more beneficial that using him for 2500 beakers of Education at this time. Education is 13 turns if we were to go that way.

I would have sent the geek to a border city and built an academy for the kulture. But, then again, I'm an idiot.

@ team, clink on the link in Sadan's sign, we need you. (shameless merchandising)

it seems like you don't normally use either Great Scientists or Great People in general for discovering techs? Is that correct? If that is not right, when do you use GPs for free tech (or use them for the beakers for that given tech)? In other words, I am looking at what priority you give "free tech" from GPs as compared to the other options. In fact, I'd like to hear what everyone else does in this case too.

I use the great peeps for free or enchanced learning tech when nobody else has the tech. If some else has learned it, you can trade for it. IMIO.

 

[pling]

Actually Beef, while we are on this subject, by the way you wrote that post, it seems like you don't normally use either Great Scientists or Great People in general for discovering techs? Is that correct? If that is not right, when do you use GPs for free tech (or use them for the beakers for that given tech)? In other words, I am looking at what priority you give "free tech" from GPs as compared to the other options. In fact, I'd like to hear what everyone else does in this case too.

Very much depends on situation. If it's a tech I want and my research rate is low then I'll get the tech, if it's not something I'm wanting or it's only going to take a couple of turns to get anyway then I don't bother. If that's the case then I tend to use Great Scientists for Academies - I sort the cities by beaker* output and pick the highest one without an academy already. It's Great Engineers I'm never sure what to do with if the tech they give isn't that exciting ...

*It's weird calling them beakers when they're quite clearly a picture of a conical flask ... but I'm guessing if you've never worked in a lab then the difference is irrelevant

 

[Sadan01]

I would have sent the geek to a border city and built an academy for the kulture. But, then again, I'm an idiot.

Well in that case, I must be a bigger idiot as I didn't think of that (I only thought of either the tech or placing in a city as a super special). Told you I had some turns there.

I use the great peeps for free or enchanced learning tech when nobody else has the tech. If some else has learned it, you can trade for it. IMIO.

What if that tech is not on the path you are going down? Such as lets say you are playing a militaristic civ and are at war with the globe and along comes a great person that can give you, I don't know, Compass let's say (and no one else has that tech). Would you take that or rather incorporate that GP into a city for other benefits? I know that is a generalised question and it really does depend on your game and where you are at in it but I do hope you can understand where I am trying to come from here.

 

[Sadan01]

Very much depends on situation. If it's a tech I want and my research rate is low then I'll get the tech, if it's not something I'm wanting or it's only going to take a couple of turns to get anyway then I don't bother.

Is this still the case when the GP will give you a % of total conical flask's towards a given tech? Does the % factor weigh into your decision into what to do with the GP as compared to getting a tech outright?

*It's weird calling them beakers when they're quite clearly a picture of a conical flask ... but I'm guessing if you've never worked in a lab then the difference is irrelevant

Last time I did something scientific was playing with bunson burners in high school, and trust me, that was some time ago Judging by the nature of your reply, I gather you work with conical flasks? Hmmm. What do you do, if I may ask?

 

[pling]

Is this still the case when the GP will give you a % of total conical flask's towards a given tech? Does the % factor weigh into your decision into what to do with the GP as compared to getting a tech outright?

Hmm, depends how much I want the tech & and how crap my research rate is, but I'm less interested if it's not instant gratification

Last time I did something scientific was playing with bunson burners in high school, and trust me, that was some time ago Judging by the nature of your reply, I gather you work with conical flasks? Hmmm. What do you do, if I may ask?

Currently, I'm a housewife (yay for more Civ time! ). But before that I worked as a post-doctoral researcher in a biology department at a university - my last job was mostly cell biology though my PhD is in biochemistry (the boundaries between the different categories of 'biology of small bits of things' are pretty fuzzy).

 

[BeefontheBone]

Actually, I'd noticed they weren't beakers too, but that's because I'm a pedant

In answer to the GP question, it depends really. With scientists I'll usually bung 3 or 4 acadamies in, engineers ALWAYS wonders (unless I'm ridiculously far behind...), merchants vary, artists usually specialists with some bombs early on while they're still useful, prophets shrines obviously, then specialists and the odd GA. I don't tend to go for the free tech very often, tbh, unless it'll found me a religion or get me another great person for free - they become much more appealing in the late game (balanced against golden ages, obviously) since specialists and buildings won't be producing their output for very long.
That scientist we had though, I would almost certainly have built another academy with or made a specialist, but education is handy. *shrugs*

Incidentally, where did you get that green interface? Me likey.

 

[pling]

Actually, I'd noticed they weren't beakers too, but that's because I'm a pedant

Well, yeah. Pedants of the world unite! Or something

 

[Sadan01]

Incidentally, where did you get that green interface? Me likey.

Nice isnt it? It comes with the Blue Marble interface mod (or more correctly, the CivScale component). It comes with many preset colours for the interface but also has the option to choose your own colour (or make your own). Very nice but most are probably unuseable due to the colours being too bright or too weird

Screenie:

BG Colour is the option to mess with.

That scientist we had though, I would almost certainly have built another academy with or made a specialist, but education is handy. *shrugs*

I didnt go for education at all. I made him a specialist in Beijing instead as I thought at the time it would be more beneficial. Since AK brought up the point about using him for another academy elsewhere, I have had second thoughts as to if what I did was the *right* thing to do in that situation. I can clearly say now that Specialists (and GP) are a weakness in my game. Something I'll have to work on.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Right, here we go.

IHT (1460):

Having a look around, I notice that we're close to being able to flip Basra - some more culture in Tlacopan would be handy once its defence is finished. Our cities are well defended, but we have little offensive capability which will be necessary. Machu Picchu also has no culture whatsoever - that is something I intend to fix; to that end, switch Guangzhou to a Christian Missionary.

Dial up Mansa Musa, the only AI with resources we don't have, and trade him gold for his spices, then gunpowder for Divine Right and 20 gold (they're the same flask cost, so we got a bit of cash out of that, and we could do with more friends!). I also trade Theology to Caesar for Compass and all his 30 gold - slightly below value, but it's an old tech and it gets us an extra +1 with him.

T1 (1465):
Some worker actions, not a lot else.

T2 (1470):
And again. Zzzzz.

T3 (1475):
Mansa wants us to go Buddhist. I turn him down.

T4 (1480):
Christianity spread to Machu Picchu. It's now getting 1 culture/turn and has knocked a couple of turns off the workshop thanks to Organised Religion.

T5 (1485):

Good Enough completes worker, starts Christian Temple (Angkor Wat's nearly finished, and the boosted priests rock).
Some great person or other is born somewhere.

Nationalism researched. I dither about getting Military Tradition for cavalry, but eventually pick Education (leads to both Economics and Liberalism which have bonuses for the first to discover them, and is a bit quicker to research). At this point in the tech tree, though, everything's attractive

Looking at the foreign advisor, I notice Tokugawa's got Education already. Gah! There's no way he'll trade with us, though - he hates us

T6 (1490):

Hagia Sophia is built somewhere or other. Looking at the info screen, it's in Japan but not Kyoto.

T7 (1495):

Ironchou Aqueduct -> Monastery (may as well get them built early).

T8 (1500):

Angle Aqueduct -> Harbor.
Guangzhou completes bank. It's now overtaken Beijing in terms of gold output, so I start the Spiral Minaret there. A worker moves to chop a nearby forest and mine the hill to improve its shield output.

T9 (1505):

Nooooo!

One effing turn away from completion! Arrrrgh! I go for a harbour instead, and tweak science up to 80% on the grounds that we're about to have plenty of gold to spare. Bah!

T10 (1510):

740 gold extra, to be precise - nearly doubles our treasury. Machu Picchu completes forge, starts monastery (cheap culture).

Sorry about the lack of pictures, but that was a pretty dull turnset. Incredibly irritating about Angkor Wat (we could've gone for another wonder in that time...) but we are gaining on Toku's score. His education lead could be very upsetting, though, if we can't get to liberalism before him. Strange research path for an agressive AI - I'd expect him to head for rifling and chemistry, really.