SGOTM 01 - Memphis Blues

[Hyfrydle]

SGOTM 01 Memphis Blues

Well here we go we are finally going to find out what lies to the W and see if all our early planning will pay off.

Turn 1 4000 BC

After checking the local area the warrior needs to move either N or S to explore our surrounding area I decide to move S to begin with this uncovers a clam resource which may be useful later. After moving the settlers SW we don't uncover anymore resources but the new city position has three forests so we will gain health benefits also the cows are now in our fat cross. I will found our first city next turn. Before ending I set research to animal husbandry.

Turn 2 3970 BC

We found Thebes and the move to the SW was a good one:

We have a rice resource close by and stone with more cows to the N.Set production to warrior which will complete in 11 turns and continue exploring to the S with our warrior unit.Looks like we may be in the SE of a continent. As you can see animal husbandry is due to complete in 18 turns. Thebes is due to grow in 11 turns after checking demographics we are trailing in military by a large margin the early game should be fun till we get ourselves established.

Turn 3 3940 BC

As suspected after moving the warriors onto the hill to the SW we uncover a peninsula jutting out to sea.

Turn 4 3910 BC

Warriors start heading to the W nothing else to report.

Turn 5 3880 BC

Thebes cultural influence will increase next turn and we keep heading W with the warriors.

Turn 6 3850 BC

The borders expand in Thebes and we find more cows!!! and some fish off the coast to the SW. The city will grow in 4 and the warrior will complete in 4 as you can see we are 6 points behind the Inca's in score if we can close this gap we should be able to make some progress. We discover a source of sugar on this turn too.

Turn 7 3820 BC

All quiet

Turn 8 3790 BC

Our demographics are as follows:

We have the most land area but are really low on soldiers we are 50% less than our nearest rival when the warrior completes I'll check this again hopefully the figures won't be so depressing. On a more positive note Thebes is number 1 in the the top 5 cities so we can celebrate that.

Turn 9 3760 BC

Still exploring

Turn 10 3730 BC

Our warriors find wait for it more cows!!!! This would be a dairy farmers paradise!!! Halfway throught the first set of turns and animal husbandry is due to complete in 10 turns and the city will grow in 3 which is also when the warrior completes. We haven't come across any Inca's which makes me feel they may well be on another continent or island but we still need to be vigilant.

Turn 11 3700 BC

Decide to head northwards with the warriors to explore the area to the NE of Thebes we don't want any nasty surprises!!!

Turn 12 3670 BC

May well head our current warrior unit to Thebe's and explore the NE our new unit which is due to complete next turn.

Turn 13 3640 BC

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g138/Hyfrydle/Civ 4 SGOTM 01/ThebesCityView.jpg

The warrior completes and we start on a worker which will complete in 15 turns as can be seen from the city view we have a happiness limit of 5 and health of 6 which restricts growth to 5 until we increase our happiness. We have plenty of health resources nearby but nothing for happiness. Maybe we'll find something in the NE.

Turn 14 3610 BC

This is going to be a really difficult game we are still really trailing military wise hope you guys have some ideas or we could really struggle.

Turn 15 3580 BC

Animal husbandry completes in 4. We continue exploring.

Turn 16 3550 BC

Our warriors discover a barrier of 4 peaks I wonder if our Incan friends are on the other side?

Turn 17 3520 BC

We find wolves this could be our first fight.

Turn 18 3490 BC

Our warriors defeat the wolves but are injured so I set them to heal which will take 4 turns. Our other warrior group reaches Thebes and will fortify there next turn.

Turn 19 3460 BC

complete animal husbandry but there are no horses so we start on mining. Warriors are now fortified in Thebes.

Turn 20 3430 BC

Our Lands So Far:

Well that's my 20 and we are on our way not too much to report but lot's of information for discussion. We still need to explore and find those damn Incans as there a real shadow hanging over us also somewhere out there we have an ally again we need to find them hope it's the big military power

Thebes:

In Thebes we have a worker completing in 8 turns and we will expand culturally shortly too. We need to increase our military as soon as possible so maybe we should aim for archers.

Final Demographics:

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g138/Hyfrydle/Civ 4 SGOTM 01/FinalDemographics.jpg

Here are our final demographics we are really trailing militarily so I feel this is one of our main priorites again open to discussion. Hope I didn't do too badly and good luck to Fredriksberg.

The save has been uploaded and the running order is as follows:

Hyfrydle (Just Played)
Frederiksberg (Up Next)
Mad Professor
radiopill
BSouder
Drogear
KingdomBrunel
Syntherio

The Save:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm1/Memphis_Blues_SG001_BC3400_01.Civ4SavedGame

Good Luck

 

[Frederiksberg]

Thanks Hyfrydle !

Looks like you got us started on the right track. Also we are not doing bad compared to the other teams.

Since we didn't find horses I guess we carry on as planned with Mining and BW in order to locate bronze. So what I plan to do is:

Research: Mining, BW
Units: Use one warrior to do some more scouting. When the worker appears I will use him to improve the cow tile and the rice tile first.

I will probably start playing tonight (i.e. 6-7 hours from now), so if you have any last minute comments don't wait too long!

 

[radiopill]

So there's good and bad news in this report...

The SW gambit was a good idea, we gain rice/stone/5 forests/1 plain hill... This city will "rock" in production... Just pray for copper on one of those hill, and it will be heaven...

No incas, for the moment is good as we don't have horses (for the moment, perhaps in the N or in the far west...

Worker due in 8, what must be his first task..? Cow or Rice, I think cow is better for the ...

Tech wise, we should continue for BW, as we are really weak for the moment, let's hope we have copper near... Then BW is ok, let's go for Mysticism, if we have copper, or if we are alone on this continent, otherwise we would have to think at archery...

 

[Syntherio]

Just a few observations:
In the infoscreen you showed us in turn 8 we see at land area rival best 18.000. That means that civs city has already expanded and controls now 18 land-tiles. And that means that civ has the creative trait. So one of these leaders is on the map: Louis XIV, Frederick, Kublai Khan, Cyrus or Catherine.

Our lack of soldiers, compared with the other Civs is okay, the AI starts with extra units on Monarch.

I am surprised that we are just second in Food Production, but last at Life Expactancy - did the Ai start with workers or how did say managed this?

Really a pity that we didn´t discover horses...

 

[Syntherio]

Research:
If we have copper nearby and because of the stone I would suggest this: Mining, Bronzeworking, Mysticism, Masonry

Building:
Whats after the worker? Another warrior or barracks? And at what time should we start with stonehenge? As soon as possible, or when we have connected the stone?

First job for the worker:
I would suggest to improve the rice first. We have not yet a need for fast production, but fast grow can be useful.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Our warriors discover a barrier of 4 peaks I wonder if our Incan friends are on the other side?

Since this map is handmade I wouldn't be surprised if we share an island with the Incan tribe on the other side of those mountains. We might consider going for sailing earlier if it turns out that there are no other civs on our side of those mountains.

I think we soon need to consider city specialization also. One possibility is to research pottery early and put a lot of cottages on the flood plains. That would make our capital an excellent tech city and keep us well into the tech race from the beginning. Another possibility is to make it a production city by farming (some of) the flood plains and mining the hills and maybe later put some water mills on the remaining flood plains. This would - combined with the stone ressource - allow us to build both military units and wonders. One possibility would be to research Masonry, build a quarry and go for the Pyramids (Or Stonehenge). Of course provided that the Inca's don't come knocking on our door. Getting Pyramids would be particularly nice as it looks like we don't have many luxury ressources and thus need other means to get happyness (Representation or Hereditary Rule).

 

[Frederiksberg]

Research:
If we have copper nearby and because of the stone I would suggest this: Mining, Bronzeworking, Mysticism, Masonry

Building:
Whats after the worker? Another warrior or barracks? And at what time should we start with stonehenge? As soon as possible, or when we have connected the stone?

First job for the worker:
I would suggest to improve the rice first. We have not yet a need for fast production, but fast grow can be useful.

Research:
I think we should research Masonry after BW - we need this tech to build the quarry and get the extra wonder production speed

First job for the worker:
Rice first is fine with me. Afterwards cow.

Building:
I'm not in favor of building Stonehenge. It's normally used to get an early culture boost, but we already have that. Pyramids on the other hand would provide means for handling the lack of happyness we might be facing. And getting some extra great engineer points would have good synergi with making Thebes a production city (Later we could build a forge allowing for engineer specialists). But we don't need to decide before my turn - I can always start producing barracks and then we can switch later.

 

[radiopill]

I didn't think we should go for masonry, before we get CoL with the GP, stonhedge would give us... I think we could get StoneH without the help of the "quarryed" stone... and we can chop the forest north of the city, it won't harm the health bonus...

After Worker, start a barracks, until city size 3, then a settler... IMO

 

[Frederiksberg]

I didn't think we should go for masonry, before we get CoL with the GP, stonhedge would give us... I think we could get StoneH without the help of the "quarryed" stone... and we can chop the forest north of the city, it won't harm the health bonus...

After Worker, start a barracks, until city size 3, then a settler... IMO

Building the wonder without the 100% bonus from stone seems like (forgive my french ) a bloody waste of hammers. Remember that the chopped hammers also double! I also don't understand why we should build Stonehenge when we can only use the GP points. Building pyramids will give exactly the same number of GP points plus it enables all government civics. This could be extremely helpful in increasing science and happyness.

Regarding build order I guess barracks is a safe bet and also my first idea. But maybe we should build a settler? Founding a second city basically doubles growth in our empire, and we might discover that bronze is outside our cultural borders. This means that we need the settler to get the bronze fast.

 

[radiopill]

Building the wonder without the 100% bonus from stone seems like (forgive my french ) a bloody waste of hammers. Remember that the chopped hammers also double! I also don't understand why we should build Stonehenge when we can only use the GP points. Building pyramids will give exactly the same number of GP points plus it enables all government civics. This could be extremely helpful in increasing science and happyness.

Pyramids give GE gpp, thereas stoneH give GP gpp, by this GP I hope we can grab confucianism of CoL, wich would "solve" our happines problem partially +1 in cities with the state religion, and +1 with a cheap temple (we are spiritual)... This means we can have the same bonus as the one give by representation (for the happiness). And if we follow the path I suggested, (writing/Meditation/Poly/priesthood), must be researched before we used the GProphet for CoL) then we can go for the Oracle and grab Civil Service, then we can run Burocracy in our powerfull capital...
I think both strategy are good, but the one I suggested ,is better

But it's up to the team to decide...

 

[radiopill]

For the production, I agree we should go for a settler then Thebes reach size 3... but we can put some into a barracks until we reach this size.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I think both strategy are good, but the one I suggested ,is better

I kind of suspected that. I feel the same way and I will try to explain why:

First of all, in order to make a fair comparison between two competing strategies they should take approximately the same number of turns. And I doubt that your proposed strategy can be completed in the same time it would take to research Masonry, build a quarry and build the Pyramids.

The Pyramids enable all government civics not only representation and the effect stays for the whole duration of the game. This means we also have at our disposal Hereditary Rule (happyness only limited by number of military units), Police State (+25% military production and -50% war wearyness - could be very relevant when locked in war) and Universal Suffrage (Rushing production using gold - not very useful in early game, but later!).

GE points are not bad, a great engineer can be used for instance to rush Oracle if we want a free tech...

Religion can spread to our lands in many ways: Randomly, through missionaries and by founding a religion. So following my proposal does not rule out that we get religion somehow, but following your proposal definitely rules out that we get the Pyramids!

I sometimes feel that too much emphasis is put on "standard" strategies like this CS slingshot. I would rather let the information we get from exploring the map and meeting other civs guide the decisions. That also breaks the routine and allows you to explore different possibilities. In our case it is the presence of stone and the fact that our capital is a potential production powerhouse that is the basis for my suggestions. Normally I would make the capital my tech city and go for pottery and cottages early. And I wouldn't build any early wonders at all. But not this time!!

But it's up to the team to decide...

Of course. But I want to persuade you as well .

 

[Frederiksberg]

First job for the worker:
I would suggest to improve the rice first. We have not yet a need for fast production, but fast grow can be useful.

Changed my mind on that one! I found out that working the rice tile (farm) only yields +1 food whereas working the cow tile will yield +1 food and +2 hammers! So I will start improving where it really counts. I think this is a minor decision so I will just go ahead and do it.

 

[Syntherio]

I begin to prefer Frederiksbergs strategy. It could be nice to build the oracle (for CoL and Great Prophets) with a Great Engineer from the Pyramids...

 

[Syntherio]

Changed my mind on that one! I found out that working the rice tile (farm) only yields +1 food whereas working the cow tile will yield +1 food and +2 hammers! So I will start improving where it really counts. I think this is a minor decision so I will just go ahead and do it.

I remember it as followes:
That improved Rice-tile would give 5 food
(2 from grassland, 1 from rice, 1 from improved rice and 1 from irrigated farm)
The improved cow-tile would give us 3 food, 3 hammer and one commerce
(food: 1 from plains, 1 from cow, 1 from improved cow
hammer: 1 from plains, 2 from improved cow and 1 commerce from river)

 

[radiopill]

Ok, you convince me (partially ). Let's go for Pyramids, after all we're Egyptians, aren't we..?

But if we have to build the Oracle with a GE, it should be done in another city than Thebes. So we have a city who spawn GE, and another city for GP... and no risk with a 50/50% odd for GP/GE...

 

[Frederiksberg]

I remember it as followes:
That improved Rice-tile would give 5 food
(2 from grassland, 1 from rice, 1 from improved rice and 1 from irrigated farm)
The improved cow-tile would give us 3 food, 3 hammer and one commerce
(food: 1 from plains, 1 from cow, 1 from improved cow
hammer: 1 from plains, 2 from improved cow and 1 commerce from river)

I don't think the farm will be irrigated since it doesn't have fresh water access. So I think I will farm one of the flood plain tiles instead to get the extra gold. We can wait with the rice tile until we need the health bonus.

I have loaded the save now and I'm ready to start my 20 turns. The new save should be available later this evening/nigth

 

[KingdomBrunel]

Very interesting to see that first set of moves. I'd bet the Incans are on the other side of those mountains too. Disappointing not to have horses yet - we really need copper to show up don't we?

I think we should look to make Thebes a production city - we've got good production bonuses, and plenty of hills. I think the mountain barrier makes the area N/E/S safe from other civs in the immediate future, so should we be looking to base our next city west of here to cut off others expanding into this area? I agree with Radiopill to start the Settler when we're at size 3, I got annihilated in GOTM3 by not expanding quickly enough.

I'm happy enough to go for the Pyramids too, as long as we've got the stone hooked up before then. Not sure how long we should delay starting this though.

Look forward to reading the next installment.

 

[BSouder]

I would suspect that the "sea" to the south of our capital may be in an inland sea. The landmass to the west seems to curl back. I wouldn't be surprised if the Incans are east of those mountains and we are connected south of that sea. We'll see though.

By the way, I am game to go for the Pyramids since we have stone so readily accessible.

 

[Frederiksberg]

A lot of stuff happened during my 20 turns and in the course of events I made some modifications to the agreed strategy. I tried, however, to remain loyal to the ideas we have been discussing.

Here we go...

Turn 21: Move warrior, find horses . Honestly, this was the first thing I did!!

Turn 22: Move warrior, find silver Can it get any better!

Turn 23: Yes!! I score The chick is named Catherine and she claims to be the ruler of a gang called The Russians. She is all alone in the world At least she doesn't know Huayna. It seems that I have the option to declare war on the poor girl, so we are not locked in peace with the Russians. I don't exorcise this option though. Wouldn't be the rigth way to treat a lady - yet .

Turn 24-26: Move warrior. Nothing happens - dull

Turn 27: The worker is produced in Thebes and Mining is discovered. Now I start using my common sense . Since we have found horses BW is not needed that badly any more. So I decide to cut a corner and go directly for Masonry. Furthermore, with Masonry just around the corner, I decide to go directly for a Settler. The idea is to produce the Settler at the time when Masonry has been researched and stone hooked up with a Quarry. This would allow us to settle a new city with access to horses. While we are building the Pyramids this new city can build War Charriots for defense against the Russians and barbarians. The worker is moved to the cow tile.

Turn 28: Start building pasture, move warrior.

Turn 29: Warrior kills lion and is promoted to combat 1. This warrior is intended to guard our next city.

Turn 30-31: Move warrior.

Turn 32: Pasture finished. Move warrior.

Turn 33: Move warrior and worker.

Turn 34: Move warrior - find more fish in the waters on the east coast. Move worker.

Turn 35: Worker start building road in direction of stone tile. Move warrior.

Turn 36-37: Move warrior.

Turn 38: Cultural border of Thebes expand. Warrior is fortified north of Thebes near the horses. Worker finalises road and is moved to stone tile.

Turn 39: We discover Masonry. I start researching Mysticism in order to keep all options open. Anyway it is on the path to CoL. Worker start building a quarry.

Turn 40: Nothing happens.

Turn 41: Hinduism founded by other civ.

I lost count of the turns somewhere . Probably doesn't matter. We are 4 turns from producing a Settler and 10 turns from having stone hooked up (finalize quarry + build road). Mysticism is 7 turns away.

I have made some screenshots of the final position (Hyfrydle, your screen shots are nicer than mine - how are you doing this?)