SGOTM 01 - Memphis Blues

[Frederiksberg]

While playing my turns I made a small calculation of the maximum production capability of Thebes. Right now Thebes can only grow to size 5 due to happyness constraints so my calculation is based on a situation where 5 tiles + city tile are worked:

Tile //

City 2/2/1
Stone (Quarry) 5/0/0
Cow (Pasture) 3/3/1
Floodplain (farm) 0/4/1
Hills/Grassland (mine) 3/1/0
Hills/Plains (mine) 4/0/0

Total 17/10/3

First we notice that enough food is produced to sustain the population. And we don't want to grow anyway. Secondly we see that the base production is 17 hammers and with the wonder bonus for having stone an amazing 34 hammers per turn is output during the construction of Pyramids. At this speed it would take 20 turns to build the Pyramids. I believe this should be good enough to beat the other civs in this race . Remember that the game speed is epic! Still it will take some time (a little less than 30 turns) before we reach this population in Thebes.

 

[Mad Professor]

I've read through the posts to this point on the first 40 turns. I see I'm next on the list. I can't see my way clear to play it in the next 22 hours or so, so there's a bit of time for discussion of where to go from here.

I expect to be able to down load and play in about 23 hours from now, and I will be sure to carefully read all discussion that takes place in between now and then!

Looks like we're doing as well as could be expected so far - we probably will be lacking some resources which we may have to use some excess cows to get hold of... Anyhow - we'll see! I look forward to reading the discussion coming up now!

 

[Frederiksberg]

We have some decision to make before the next turn set:

1. What to build before stone is hooked up (10 turns)? Maybe a warrior? Or start barracks and then switch?

2. Where to settle? East coast or west coast? Or do we need to settle on a tile adjacent to the horses?

3. Build order suggestions for new city.

4. Tech path after Mysticism is discovered.

Lets hear some ideas!

 

[Syntherio]

Well done, Frederiksberg.
Am I seeing right, that there is not much land in the north?
Catherine is in the west, isn´t she?
btw: You´re right with the rice, I tought the water three tiles in the south is a fresh water lake

Settling:
As we need strong military, I suggest we found our second city in the north - i´ve made a dotmap. Both positions are not perfect, but they provide us horses: the red one could become a GPF, the green one could become a commerce-city...
Production in Thebes:
Do we need another scout-warrior? I would prefer the barracks. We could need another worker, but I think Thebes should grow a little first...
Production in the new city (if we go north):
Barracks. Maybe they are finished, when the horses are connected.
Research:
Meditation. If we are lucky, we found budhism, if not we have a tech on the way to priesthood (Oracle, build in our second city like Radiopill already mentioned) and CoL.
Exploration:
BSouder could be right with expecting the Incans East of the mountains. Maybe the warrior in our capital should take a short journey to the deserthill four tiles east. The scoutwarrior in the south should went west.

 

[Hyfrydle]

I see we finally found some horses the warrior was heading in the right direction.

I think from looking at the current map we are safe from the north, east and south directions but we could do with exploring down in the south east this isn't high priority but at some point if we can send someone down there I think it would be a good idea.

After looking at Syntherio's dot map I think the green dot would be best we would get two food resource's to help with growth and there are also forests in the area for health. We could then fill up to the east at our leisure. It would be a good idea to try and get the silver at some point for the happiness.

Once the settler is complete I think would should start on a barracks and allow Thebes time to grow then once stone is linked up head for Pyramids as discussed earlier. Once we link up the horses we can increase our military and then see what happens.

I have made some screenshots of the final position (Hyfrydle, your screen shots are nicer than mine - how are you doing this?)

I use print screen to take screenshots and I'm hosting them on PhotoBucket which gives me a link which I copy and paste into my post. It's a free site so give it a try.

Does anyone feel like been our scribe?

Current turn order:

Hyfrydle
Frederiksberg (Just Played)
Mad Professor (Up Next)
radiopill
BSouder
Drogear
KingdomBrunel
Syntherio

 

[Mad Professor]

Just to clarify...

We think the Russians are to the south west, is that right? Or at least, their unit was met to the south west of Thebes?

 

[Mad Professor]

I plan to play in about 12 hours from now, so everyone put in your two cents worth by then!

 

[Drogear]

I don't think the farm will be irrigated since it doesn't have fresh water access. So I think I will farm one of the flood plain tiles instead to get the extra gold. We can wait with the rice tile until we need the health bonus.

I have loaded the save now and I'm ready to start my 20 turns. The new save should be available later this evening/nigth

I opt not to farm floodplains. The +3 food is well enuff and gold via cottage is much more important. The extra food will be eaten up later by unhealth.

 

[Drogear]

Damit I missed thw whole discussion
And im somewhat "ill" from last nights drinking endevors... Ill read up later...

 

[radiopill]

Nice turns,

For the tech path, after Myst, we can go for BW (otherwise we can't chop...) or Meditation as Buddhism hasn't been found atm... We also should search fishing, for the boat, we need to explore the other side of the mountains...

For the settler I think he could go 1S of the green spot, and the red one could be moved 1E...
But we also need to block our part of the continent, so need more informations from the west...

For the prod, I agree with the barracks until the stone are hooked, then Pyramids. For the futur city, barracks, then WarChariot probably...

 

[BSouder]

I agree with radiopill on the city placement. I think 1S of the green dot should be our next city and 1E of the red dot could be city 3 or 4. The green city should get enough production with the 2 cows, forests and the 1 hill down near the capital to make us some chariots. I think it's eventual role would be commerce though. The red city looks decent for a GP factory with fish + farmed flood plains, it could also make a nice science city (decent number of cottages, coast and eventual windmills) or decent production center with 4 mines and plenty of food; lots of options.

What are we turning our capital into now that we know the lay of the land near it? If my math isn't totally screwed, without building a single farm (except on the rice) the capital will have enough food to work every single square in it's radius, with mines on all 3 hills. That makes it prime for what I normally do with my capital, mainly a commerce focus but mine all the hills so it has enough production for wonders or units when needed. To that end I would cottage every flood plains early and cottage everything flat without a tree on it later. The forests I would mostly leave for later unless we really need them chopped (I tend to chop outside the fat cross where possible) for later cottages as we grow or maybe lumbermills if we are maintaining a decent tech pace.

Techs is where I normally screw up early, I don't normally have as clear of a plan as I should in the opening. This format gives you time to think though. I would think our tech goals should be get priesthood to open up Oracle and get pottery so we can grow and get some commerce going.

Other than that I think our focus for scouting and expansion soon should be SW. That appears to be where our border will eventually be set.

 

[Syntherio]

One tile south of the green dot is indeed a good place for our second city. Those two overlapping tiles are not too bad.
I agree with BSouders plan for our capital, but I would prefer to chop the 3 forests directly beside the city-tile. They can become dangerous, if an enemy unit is moving into them.

 

[radiopill]

I agree with radiopill on the city placement. I think 1S of the green dot should be our next city and 1E of the red dot could be city 3 or 4. The green city should get enough production with the 2 cows, forests and the 1 hill down near the capital to make us some chariots. I think it's eventual role would be commerce though. The red city looks decent for a GP factory with fish + farmed flood plains, it could also make a nice science city (decent number of cottages, coast and eventual windmills) or decent production center with 4 mines and plenty of food; lots of options.

I think the "1E" red city should be turn into a GP or science city, Thebes and the "1S" green cities are enougth for the production (the green city also have horses, wich is also good for prod...)

I agree with BSouders plan for our capital, but I would prefer to chop the 3 forests directly beside the city-tile. They can become dangerous, if an enemy unit is moving into them.

We can spare some of this forests for chopping the Pyr, or another settler... We are not forced to chop the 3 in a row...

 

[Syntherio]

We can spare some of this forests for chopping the Pyr, or another settler... We are not forced to chop the 3 in a row...

Of course. What I want to say was: "I would prefer to chop the 3 forests, which lie beside the city-tile."

 

[radiopill]

Dot map revised, plus 2 others possible site, the blue one is pretty similar to the red one, and the pink one is not a priority... We need more information from our west land, to know where to put our seeling city...

 

[Frederiksberg]

Am I seeing right, that there is not much land in the north?
Catherine is in the west, isn´t she?

Yes there is only little land. Only reason for placing a city there would be to grab the silver ressource. Catherine is somewhere to the south-west and there is a russina scout sout-east of Thebes.

BSouder could be right with expecting the Incans East of the mountains. Maybe the warrior in our capital should take a short journey to the deserthill four tiles east.

I already went to that tile with a warrior. Found a new fish resource.

Do we need another scout-warrior? I would prefer the barracks. We could need another worker, but I think Thebes should grow a little first...

I fully agree. We should let Thebes grow to size 5 where it will be able to produce 17 hammers per turn. Putting some hammers into a barracks and then switching to Pyramids when stone is hooked up seems like a good idea.

I opt not to farm floodplains. The +3 food is well enuff and gold via cottage is much more important. The extra food will be eaten up later by unhealth.

We need to farm one flood plain tile in order to get maximum production in Thebes at size 5 - see my previous post regarding this. This still leaves plenty of flood plain tiles for other stuff like cottages and maybe water mills later. We are thinking of making Thebes a production city so maybe it would be better to look for a different spot for a tech/gold city. Right now we really need the hammers for the Pyramids so I suggest that the worker is used to farm one flood plain tile and build mines on the grassland and plains hills. After that he could go to our new city and hook up horses. We can always change the farmed floodplain tile later in the game when Thebes can go beyond size 5. BSouders idea of a hybrid production/commerce focus in Thebes might be a good solution as Thebes really start to grow.

For the tech path, after Myst, we can go for BW (otherwise we can't chop...) or Meditation as Buddhism hasn't been found atm... We also should search fishing, for the boat, we need to explore the other side of the mountains...

Maybe we should go for Meditation since we need it anyway if we want the Oracle. Fishing is essential if we select to settle south of the green spot which has a fish resource. We could even use a fishing boat to do a little exploration if we want. BW is nice, but it will take around 40 turns before the Pyramids are done (10 turns for hooking up stone and around 30 turns to build). This means we don't need the chopping for the next say 30 turns. I also think we can wait a little while with Pottery because we have plenty of tasks for our worker right now.

For the settler I think he could go 1S of the green spot, and the red one could be moved 1E...
But we also need to block our part of the continent, so need more informations from the west...

I think both suggestions are good, but maybe with a slight plus for Radiopills, because we get the fish resource and more water tiles in our eastern city, which we migth be able to develop into a strong tech city if we put cottages on those floodplains. Of course we loose 2 health points by moving away from the river but having the fish resource more or less compensates that in terms of food. If we go for this solution I suggest we settle 1S of the green dot first. The powerfull cow tiles will help us getting barracks and War Charriots fast!

I don't think we have any military that we can use for scouting - both warriors are needed to guard our cities. When we get War Charriots they will be ideal for scouting!

 

[Frederiksberg]

Just to clarify...

We think the Russians are to the south west, is that right? Or at least, their unit was met to the south west of Thebes?

Yes, they must be down there.

Notice that I haven't built a road on the stone tile yet, so you will have to do that when the quarry is done.

Good luck

 

[Frederiksberg]

Dot map revised, plus 2 others possible site, the blue one is pretty similar to the red one, and the pink one is not a priority... We need more information from our west land, to know where to put our seeling city...

Nice map Could you expand it to include suggestions for cities that grab the silver and sugar?

 

[radiopill]

"Aussitôt dit, aussitôt fais..."

 

[Mad Professor]

I've downloaded, and I've just played my 20 turns. I'm just about to upload it again. Description of the 20 turns will follow justas soon as I can type it up for you.