SGOTM 01 - Peanut

I'm skeptical about size-1 cities. I'll try a test, but I think you always lose 1 pop when taking the city and thus size-1 cities disappear. I've heard other people say that culture is relevant, but it doesn't seem that way to me.

I agree with MailMan, settling on a forest removes it for no benefit. But still I think cottaging was probably worth more than chopping a relatively distant tile for relatively little payoff.

I think the AI never shifts its production when it has started something, so if it was building a settler when we attack, it will finish it. Too bad that it pop rushed costing us population, though. I think the pop rush also reduces the amount of gold that we get when we capture the city.

If we can block both the cow and the rice, then he can't work so many mines, was what I was thinking. And also, since he was building a settler, blocking the cow reduces his production significantly more than a mine---it might be that we could have slowed the settler down more. Still a good result.

Libraries are only really useful in cities that are going to get a substantial number of cottages. Seems like we may want a granary for long-term growth more than a library that pays relatively little in the short term, it's close though, and eventually we will build both.

We might consider making peace with Catherine now, and attacking again sometime down the road? Downside is that eventually she will connect the copper and build spearmen, if we wait long enough. But Novgorod has minimal value to us for now, and eventually we are going to encounter war weariness, and I don't know if we want to stay at war so long as to try to extract techs from her for peace. I assume that if we do make peace, that she will be so mad at us she won't be willing to trade us techs, later.

More later when I look over the save.
 
civ_steve said:
Cleared the site 4 location figuring it was likely one of the two Settlers would go here.

So why did you move the settler away from this site? Did you change your mind?

Looking at the save now, I think one settler should move to site 1 (fish/clams), and the other to site 4 (fish/cows). But I wish we had just gone there directly, instead of moving away and then back.

I'm thinking we should go ahead and make peace with Catherine. We need the happiness in Moscow, and, we can always re-declare down the road. No telling how long she will take to grow to size 2, or, whether she will generate a third archer which we won't want to attack, anyway. I do think she's working the forest to the immediate west of Novgorod---I can see the little hut in the middle of the tile.
 
I have never seen a size 1 city survive an attack. Because of this I am leaning for peace now and attack later. I agree with DaviddesJ that grainaries are to be prefered to libraries, however since we have started them, I vote for finishing them. I also agree with DaviddesJ city sites.
 
My rationale between Granaries and Libraries is the 25% boost in Science is always useful while the growth benefit is not as useful while we are happiness limited. Having said that I haven't played much with Slavery and the granary would help you regain your lost population due to pop-rushing, but what else would we build but Library right now? (Or Workboats in our coastal towns). Barracks and ground units aren't too desirable until we know where and who our enemies are. I think at this point we have a lot of researching to do, especially when we know Code of Laws is already learned (and that's rather strange!) Either way, we will be building both.

Regarding moving the Settler, it would have been far better to have not moved either of them and make a decision on where to place them (Sorry!). Initially I was thinking Site 4 and Site 7, so we could connect our empire with Sailing, and I moved the Settler from Thebes to head to site 6. However, we really do need the road and we have 3 Workers. I'm content with Site 1 and Site4.

Re Novgarod - I think I'd sign peace and keep watch on the Copper space. If a Worker heads out to connect it, that's a good time to declare war, get another free Worker, and Nov will probably be size 2 or higher by that time (could be a while; no high food spaces there). I think we do eventually want it, but it doesn't help us much right now.

Eventually we'll want the Silver to the North, but I'm intrigued to see what lies on the land to the SW (at least Incense!). Site 4 (or another site on our Western Coast closer to Moscow) should generate an extra Workboat to see what lies in that direction.

I believe ainwood is up.

(St Pete's cost us 3 coins a turn, and Moscow 4 coins a turn)
 
we should build some ships for exploration purposes.

We can keep Russia alive for now, it will help us with research (especially if we can extort techs from her after we get alphabet - we can try to do that even at peace - much like the AI wants techs from us).

If we experience any war wariness, I suggest signing peace, otherwise we can just lurk around her last city.
 
MailMan said:
If we experience any war wariness, I suggest signing peace, otherwise we can just lurk around her last city.

We already have unhappiness in Moscow due to the war (so we'll get an immediate benefit from signing peace), although it hasn't spread to our other cities yet. But since we're going to make peace sooner or later, might as well do it sooner---that also accelerates the time we can re-attack if we want.
 
I'm happy to build at Site 7, but I think it makes more sense to use the current settlers at Site 1 and Site 4. We can eventually (pretty soon) build another settler in Moscow for Site 7.

The library in Memphis seems very low priority, and we haven't started it yet so there's no cost to change our mind. I suggest we produce a worker there, as follows: switch it to worker for 1 turn to put the overflow into a worker, then switch to WC for 1 turn so we can grow to size 3, then switch back to worker. We're going to need a few more WCs (or even warriors) just for garrison purposes, if nothing else.

The library in Thebes is high priority, because it has the palace and we should start cottaging it. Also, we can consider generating GPP there once we have a library.

The library in Moscow is medium priority, I would have preferred a granary but it's ok to stick with the library. It does have the gems, and can eventually get some cottages.

I like the idea of declaring peace, waiting for Russia to build another worker (or settler), and then poaching it.

Don't forget that the true cost of a city is more than just the maintenance shown for that city, because each additional city also makes your other cities more expensive to maintain. Building more cities is going to cost us a lot, we definitely need to start making cottages. We also really want Iron Working so we can develop the gems near St Petersburg; I'm hoping we'll be able to find someone to trade with, and won't have to research it ourselves.
 
ainwood said:
Re novgorod - we will have copper, so we can use axes (or maces) to get novgorod.

Axemen cost considerably more than WCs, and are worse against the likely defenders (archers).

We'll probably have iron for swordsmen, if we need it.

I don't really think that taking Novgorod will be hard. Catherine won't just pile up archers to defend it; she'll be making workers and maybe settlers, sending her troops out as escorts where we can pick them off without city defense bonuses, etc.
 
I am back just to hear about very good news: nice turn steve.

Good idea to make peace now (but keep an eye on the copper...)

I suggest we should finish the libraries before construct anything else and soon have boats to explorate...

I will look at the save later.
 
DaviddesJ said:
I'm happy to build at Site 7, but I think it makes more sense to use the current settlers at Site 1 and Site 4. We can eventually (pretty soon) build another settler in Moscow for Site 7.

P.S. Don't forget that Site 7 isn't much good until we have Iron Working, so we can farm the rice. Unless it has a marine resource (which we should investigate, we need to finish exploring along the coast).

By the way, sending the settler from Thebes toward Site 7, unescorted, is also quite dangerous; there could be a barbarian lurking along that route.
 
I like 1 and 4 also. Site 7, later, perhaps by a Settler from Moscow.

Moscow gets a lot of Commerce from the Gems (once it expands) and has good food source. Plus it has the mines for good production when desired. I would cottage several spaces and play it for commerce mostly, and production when desired.
 
I did try to contact Catherine to see what she thought of peace. She wanted nothing of it; might have to move the WC's in to show we mean business. I'm sure she's not afraid of our Warrior (who is taunting her daily).
 
My settling priority is first spot #1.
This city should start on at least 2 work boats. after that it should probably whip granary and than a worker. this is a great city location that I think should be settled and worked ASAP

On the next settling point I am not so sure, but I think #4 is good enough. it is close to the capital - so less maintenance and it gets two resources.

the #6 spot I would move 2E1S from its current location to reduce overlap with other cities near by.
 
OK - I checked the save, and catherine will make peace.

Proposed play:
* I will wait a turn and see if Novogrod grows. If not, declare peace - but watch the copper (and whether she has a worker etc).
* Current settlers to sites 1 & 4.
* Start getting cottages around Thebes.
* Keep building library in Thebes. I'll run the numbers on whether to emphasise food or production for Thebes in doing this.
* In memphis, I'll try david's suggestion to get a worker.
* Moscow can continue on library - any thoughts on chop-rushing it? I was thinking maybe chop-rushing a granary instead. :hmm:
* St Petersburg - finish workboat (Why or why? Is that for exploring?) Then look at perhaps a granary or library - I'm more inclined on granaries.

Workers will look to start cottaging around thebes, although I might get roads built to link luxuries. We have a lot of hills around, so mining for production is probably a good strategy.

re research - I'll go for iron-working after alphabet, unless there are severe objections. Note that I will drop the research rate to try balance our budget.
 
The worker should allocate some turns to road into city site #1 in order to connect it to the trade network and get some health bonuses there.

St Petersburg - finish work boat (Why or why? Is that for exploring?)
I do not know what was the original thought behind it, but we really do need some exploration.


I will not be able to play until Monday, so please swap my place this round
 
ainwood said:
re research - I'll go for iron-working after alphabet, unless there are severe objections.

You aren't going to get Alphabet in 10 turns!! I do agree on Iron Working after Alphabet, unless we can find someone to trade with (in which case I think there's a good chance we can get Alphabet that way, and we might want to research something else instead for trade purposes). The opportunity to trade is a good reason to build a workboat in St Petersburg. I also think we should park a military unit on the southwest peninsula asap, so we have a chance to stop someone wandering by on the other continent.

Even if Novgorod were size 2, I still think making peace immediately would be a good idea. It's going to be several turns before we can bring up all our forces. When we take the city, it's going to be a net drain on our economy. It doesn't have any improved tiles and our workers are quite busy with the cities we already have. If we let her keep it, and grow it, and build a worker or settler for us, all of which we can easily seize when we want to, that's better than owning it ourselves. We have her constrained so that we don't have to worry about her interfering with us any more, which was the main idea, as well as capturing Moscow.

I don't think we need a road to Site #1. I think it connects to our core via existing roads and the coast. We do need to think about farming and connecting the rice near Thebes (or else connecting to the rice near Moscow).
 
Lurker comment/question?

@176/177 Re: Workboat exploration...

Arn't workboats confined to your own cultural borders?

....


Nevermind.... Just looked it up... Cultural Borders *OR* Coast.... Everything makes sence again....
 
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