ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Thinking about the domination/diplomacy choice, we may have longer to decide than we think. If we're stuck on a landmass with our Always Peace partner, we may not have to decide for centuries (in game time).
SGOTM 01 - V Q
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
bobrath said:
We only have 3 days?!? I expected us to have 10 pages by now!EDIT: BTW, does anyone else keep expecting one of the SGOTM mods to pop in and say "Hey! We're not evil!"
namliaM
Deity
Thinking defence? We are on the northern part of our world. Then we should settle in place... Now we have 2 hills to our immediate west... Not good for defence at all...bobrath said:
I will throw just some suggestions... How about:
- 2 South
Devide the FPs between the capitol and a second city up north
- 2 South-East
Pick up Coastal and a Dessert tile
- North-NorthWest on that Plains forest
Not so good as we get in "trouble" with them mountains
- Relocate to the other river NE-N
Nice and snug on the mountian range...
I think we rulled out E already and Settling on the Plains hill where the warrior is, is a No-No...
The plains hill due SW of the settler is maybe an option, but we want the 4 hammers I think in the mid-term
I do feel a bit like the Cow was put there to draw us, be it good or bad...
Picking up to much FPs without forest will make for a 'hard' start...
I think I see Grass Forest, Forrest hill and Plains hill on the relative NW-W-SW of 'our' plains hill. Atleast ChrTh and I agree that its hill... And we wont see past that...
From our pic, starting position:
I think it looks pretty simular.... That would make our immediate surroundings look like this:
As for map settings and opponent/friend placing...
Us-Peace-War seems kindoff odd setup to me... Lots of "flatland" fighting with UUs....
Edit: Offcourse I have this map saved, so if anyone wants it. Or if we feel changes are in order.... Please tell me....
We/one of us, could try some tests with this start and see what is most 'efficient' in regards with the buildorder
Warrior (till Grow)-worker or worker of the bat?
Editted later to add:
Sorry about the bodgy river... I couldnt get it just right...
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
@namliaM: Pretty impressive. I'll have to look at it more later. And I think you're right, that is a Plains hill.
namliaM
Deity
I will bet since its earliest Domination or Diplomacy, that the one will go along side the other.ChrTh said:
Meaning, a team will have the opportunity to win at both no matter the choice a team makes... This implies quite a bit...
1) I dont think we are on a pangea like thing...
2) I think the admins want(ed) to force us to use the UU, meaning Hyuna is 'near enough', why else force the war from the start?
3) Any or atleast some opponents will be on a 'far away' land mass.
4) Our friend will either be far away or to close for comfort.
Edit to add:
See this post by AlanH:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4026214&postcount=10
on 2 days per 10 turns = total about 2 months.
Thats 70 turns per 2 weeks, thats about 8*70 = 560 turns... This is round and about the expectation of the Admins... so we have something to shoot for...
Editted again to add:
If my replica is more or less accurate, moving 1S will make 2 tiles go out of range that may contain any resource.
To my (somewhat limited) knowledge, no resource is hidding in FPs. Therefor we have the 1 Plains and 1 Grass to 'worry' about...
bobrath
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,238
I'm interested to know why you think we're in the northern part of this continent.. I'm willing to say we're on the eastern edge of a landmass (ring map anyone?), but if anything I'd say we're on the SE side and not the NE side - but only because the coast slopes that way.
2S would take 2 turns to get there I think. We'd have to found in the next year. Plus moving that far gets us out side the range of the lake and I'm not sure if that's good or bad.
2S would take 2 turns to get there I think. We'd have to found in the next year. Plus moving that far gets us out side the range of the lake and I'm not sure if that's good or bad.
Maquis
King
I guess IMO that is bad... I like the option of that 2F2C tile at the start... it can help quite a bit (might even shave a turn or two off research by working it from the get-go)
I love how we're already on page 3, and no other team is even on page two. Got to wonder what the admins are thinking...
bobrath:
on the swedish chef! Bork Bork!!
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
namliaM said:
I'm thinking the opposite. I think the admins gave us a Civ with an early UU that we won't be able to use. Ditto Capac. Otherwise a more aggressive team will have an advantage over a team looking to expand carefully.
However, I'm curious about WW ... but I think I'm going to ask a question about it in the Maintenance Thread.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Comeon, guys, speculations are great and all that, but they are all based on assumptions. If we take away all the uncertainty and concentrate on what is revealed, then:
-1S: has the options of being the production beast with hills on the west, forest in the NW, cow.
-2S: you get pretty much the same as 1S, but a lot more unknown tiles than 1S, plus you need an extra turn to settle
-any movement east is a mistake IMHO, unless you move to the coast (which cost you all the movement points in a turn)
we are pretty much limited to option of moving 1S or settling in place.
--
-1S: has the options of being the production beast with hills on the west, forest in the NW, cow.
-2S: you get pretty much the same as 1S, but a lot more unknown tiles than 1S, plus you need an extra turn to settle
-any movement east is a mistake IMHO, unless you move to the coast (which cost you all the movement points in a turn)
we are pretty much limited to option of moving 1S or settling in place.
--
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
GreyFox said:
You're no fun
So what's the difference between 1S and in place? Moving 1S swaps:
A plain of unknown (if any) resource for a Cow plain
A forested plain (1B1H0C) for a plains hill (0B2H?C)
A irrigatable grassland (2B0H0C) for a plains hill (0B2H?C)
...and that's it (every other swap is FP for FP)
So we'd be trading 3B for 3H (without improvements) plus the cow bonus and possible additional commerce. We'd also have slightly more defense, but I think either position is easily defensible. So unless we want to turn the capital into a GPP factory, I really see no reason not to move 1s. We can always farm some of the FPs, and there's enough various tiles to work that we can focus on food, commerce, or production at our discretion.
EDIT: Besides the possibility of a river on the other side that would give the hills commerce, either could have gems, gold, copper, etc.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Some more speculation (since GreyFox loves it so much 
) ... the one real risk I see from moving 1S is that the grassland would go out of the BFC ... and I got the feeling that there be horsies there ... so I loaded up a game, and this is what I found:
We'll get 4
pt, and we'll need 15 for the first expansion and 150 for the second. The grassland, if we move 1S, would be in our cultural boundaries at the second expansion, so it'd be 38 turns (barring no culture buildings) before the grassland would be in our boundaries. Since it'll take us ~14-16 turns to research animal husbandry (we can't work the lake tile until we research Fishing) I don't think it's a deal-breaker.
) ... the one real risk I see from moving 1S is that the grassland would go out of the BFC ... and I got the feeling that there be horsies there ... so I loaded up a game, and this is what I found:We'll get 4
pt, and we'll need 15 for the first expansion and 150 for the second. The grassland, if we move 1S, would be in our cultural boundaries at the second expansion, so it'd be 38 turns (barring no culture buildings) before the grassland would be in our boundaries. Since it'll take us ~14-16 turns to research animal husbandry (we can't work the lake tile until we research Fishing) I don't think it's a deal-breaker.Before we decide where to build the city, I think we should decide what we want our first city to be - a production city or a research city. If we want a production city we could go south or even south west to get on top of the plain hill. If we want a research city, I think ChrTh's suggestion of going 1 east is great for that. If we move one south east I think it would give us a good research city as well as some production (with the cows and hills) to help us at the beginning. Oh my opinion is to make the capital a research city and put it either one east or south east.
In regard to religion, I suggest not to bother going for one of the early religion. We don't have mysticism and it would be very hard to get one in monarch if there are two or more civs that start with mysticism (Incans are one of them). Instead I think we should go for Confucianism (code of laws).
On research path, I really think the first tech we should research is animal husbandry. We want to know where the horses are. If we get our UU we can postpone Bronze Working. The chopping is nerfed til we research Mathematics, so we might want to wait to chop til then anyways. If we decide to go for a research city, pottery would be good to get to sync when the worker comes out to build cottages on flood plains.
On starting warrior, send the warrior out to explore possibly west. I like the build someone (I forgot and can't see it on the reply area) where they suggested warrior, worker, warrior. I think that is a good one.
As for CS slingshot I know in GOTM 3 people were able to do it. I looked over hendricksoon's writeup and its a pretty good one maybe i'll try to link it up.
Edit: Check post 157
In regard to religion, I suggest not to bother going for one of the early religion. We don't have mysticism and it would be very hard to get one in monarch if there are two or more civs that start with mysticism (Incans are one of them). Instead I think we should go for Confucianism (code of laws).
On research path, I really think the first tech we should research is animal husbandry. We want to know where the horses are. If we get our UU we can postpone Bronze Working. The chopping is nerfed til we research Mathematics, so we might want to wait to chop til then anyways. If we decide to go for a research city, pottery would be good to get to sync when the worker comes out to build cottages on flood plains.
On starting warrior, send the warrior out to explore possibly west. I like the build someone (I forgot and can't see it on the reply area) where they suggested warrior, worker, warrior. I think that is a good one.
As for CS slingshot I know in GOTM 3 people were able to do it. I looked over hendricksoon's writeup and its a pretty good one maybe i'll try to link it up.
Edit: Check post 157
namliaM
Deity
I read somewhere that resource pointers point toward the equatar...bobrath said:
Or even the center of the map... But I/they may be mistaken...
If its true tho... We are on the NW part of the map....
I will bet you, they are reading every letter....Maquis said:I love how we're already on page 3, and no other team is even on page two. Got to wonder what the admins are thinking...
And they are thinking its a bit more work then they had expected...
What... No comments on my map thing?
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Now, that's new!namliaM said:
Did a preliminary (limited) search on the screenshots I have, and they seems to support the "pointing to equator" theory.
Comments? Ok, here you go:namliaM said:
>> YOU GOT THE RIVER ALL WRONG!!! <<<
Seriously, nice job, its certainly easier to see with than with fog of war revealing only a bit of the tiles near the fog's edge.
I don't know abt going all research, clearly the capital requires production. But whether we settle in plac,e settle 1S, or settle 1E, we would have a mix of hills and floodplains, which is good for both. The reason why I don't like going 1E is because (1) you pull in at least 3 more floodsplains, (2) you loses at least 2 forest tiles, and (3) its too close to coast but not a coastal city.
Can we take the unhealthiness with extra floodplains and less forests?
Whatever gave you the idea that there is even a remote chance that am not evil?ChrTh said:EDIT: BTW, does anyone else keep expecting one of the SGOTM mods to pop in and say "Hey! We're not evil!"
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
GreyFox said:
I think the answer to the last question is NO. We'd be spending half our time building Ducts and Grocers etc instead of troops or libraries. Plus we wouldn't be able to take advantage of the Bureaucracy civic (at least Production-wise). If it was a second city, sure ... but for our capital? I don't think it's a good idea.
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
Gyathaar said:Whatever gave you the idea that there is even a remote chance that am not evil?
Why do I find this not reassuring?
namliaM said:
It was really good and helpful. Sorry I forgot to mention that in my last post.
Gyathaar said:
Ok, now let's think of the absolutely worst circumstances and that is probably it. Watch us and our always peace civ is the only civs in a relatively small land mass.Oh besides trying to make the longest SGOTM thread, let's try to be the first to finish to stay true to our name
BTW I wonder how long it will take til Gyathaar stops reading our thread because we talk too much
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
eektor said:Oh besides trying to make the longest SGOTM thread, let's try to be the first to finish to stay true to our name
Actually, I want to finish quickly so I can read through what the other teams are doing
hmm: maybe I should ask if that's allowed) ... I'm going nuts here not checking up on a couple of them.At least we're staying on topic with our discussion. Sure, there's a lot of GreyFox-Approved Speculation, but at least it's about the game.
@namliaM: Your map was good, thanks, it helped with my analysis last night. But GreyFox is right, on your map the eastern river goes East then South instead of South then East. Drove me mad for fifteen minutes trying to figure out what was wrong with it
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