SGOTM 01 - V Q

ChrTh · May 21, 2006

dot said:
I could have checked your signature, hmm? I'm stupid.
But ... thanx for your immediate response .

Not as stupid as I am apparently ... I went over to the forum to get the thread link instead of grabbing it from my signature! :rolleyes:

namliaM · May 21, 2006

ChrTh said:
We have to take care of her, whatever it takes. The longer it takes to eliminate Cathy, the less likely it'll be Team VQ wins the Golden Laurels. If we make peace with her again, she'll remain a thorn in our side and it'll get increasingly harder and harder to get rid of her. Check her current trades and see what she's getting and pillage what she's giving.

Which is one of the reasons I pillaged the Gems and we know there must be Bronze due south somewhere, which is why I tried to sneak some chariots around moscow.... which obviously failed.

I mostly build units in our 3 oldest cities, We have 2 units (sword and Axe IIRC) on the way and a Catapult in heliopolis... Defenses are down to 0 alleady. I think if we suicide 3 or 4 cats, every sword/axe battle would be 80+% to win...

ChrTh · May 21, 2006

I checked: Cathy currently has no trades with Cyrus or Gandhi (outside of Open Borders). Also, no one else knows HC.

Cathy has some wounded troops in Moscow, might be better off attacking now and hoping to do enough damage that we can take Moscow out in 2-3 turns.

namliaM · May 21, 2006

Them injuries are from the original bloodbath still...??

bobrath · May 21, 2006

Ugh. Not one of my better turns - wooden spoon worthy more like.

Lets see good news... Always start with good news....
I finished research on Currency and have started on CoL! And picked up HBR + 80 gold in trade.
and umm...

well....

I found and Pillaged Cathy's copper!

and..

Oh yeah, raised two cities too!

That's about it.

Now the rest of the news.

Cathy still controls Moscow (size 13 now).
Cathy withstood the big attack early on in my turns and I haven't managed to get a real force down there again to do more then camp her.
Oh, and the best news that showed up in my last turn:

Yes, that's our attacking force setting up outside and lookie what Cathy figured out how to build... LongBows. Life got a whole lot ickier.

I checked and if we want peace, she'll give us Monotheism and Priesthood + 2gpt. Not a great deal, but its a lot tougher now. She also has Calendar, so I don't know if we could work to get that much more valuable (to us) tech.

Our research frankly stinks. War Weariness is cropping up enough to make life rough. Next player should whip in every city as soon as the previous whip wears off. We've got to sacrifice population to bootstrap ourselves up.

Turn by Turn stuff:
Turn 0
I noticed that Elephantine had some hammers into an aqueduct... dear god why? I switch it to barracks to help our war effort. We're so far away from unhealhty its not even worth it.

IBT Cathy drops an arcger/settler pair (off a second galley) at the City site of many names (was Yekaterinisburgh).

Turn 1
Its 12 attackers on 10 defenders in Moscow, not gonna do it. Plus Cathy sent a cat out to harass our stack.

IBT an axe promotes our top swordsman in the stack by Moscow to City Raider 3. She also founds Vladivostok at the city site of many names.

Turn 2
Moscow is down to 8 defenders vs our 12. I don't figure its going to get any better then this so I go in with suicide cats to start up. Lose 2 and retreat 1. I reduce their stack in half and the rest of the defenders are at 30% or less.

IBT Two fresh archers join Moscow, effectivly crushing any chance of taking the city. :mad:

Turn 3 - 5
Not much, but culminate in completing Currency research (queue up CoL). I also autoraize Valdivostok and get 5g for it.
I also sent our lone WC venturing southeast. I've got to find that copper resource.

Turn 6
I negotiate OB with Cyrus (free), just in the hopes of religious spread and for the relationship benefit.

Turn 7
I spot the copper. I also have 3 galleys that take down 2 of Cathy's. Results? We have one double promoted Galley left.

Turn 8
I spot another Settler sojurn to the city site of many names:

Those two defenders came out of Moscow.

Turn 9
Smolensk is founded on the city site of many names (I couldn't catch the pair in the open with a real force).
Cyrus comes along and offers HBR + 80g for Construction. This is better then when I checked at the start of my turns (he offered priesthood and 60g then). I take it if only to help our research pump for a while.

Turn 11
RNG hates me. The spear and Archer in Smolensk hold off two swords and an axe. :mad:

IBT
RNG makes up for it by allowing my WC to hold off an axe attack near Cathy's Copper.

Turn 12
The lone remaining sword outside Smolensk gets revenge and autoraizes for 6g

Turn 13
I had sent and axe and sword down to the copper and they finally make it and manage to wipe out the spearman guarding it. WC raizes the mine. Cathy has no more copper of her own.

Turn 15
Discover the wonderful world of long bows. SIGH

Here's our cultural map:

Note that its Cyrus down SW of our lands. Still no idea where Ghandi really is.

Here's the copper site (properly camped) and nearby Novogord:

And the state of our "empire"

The save

The Autogen'd turn log:

Spoiler :

Final thoughts coming later when I get over how ugly I feel right now.

dot · May 21, 2006

@bobrath:

There's nothing you can do if RNG hates you. Don't hang your head. That's just blimmin [civ4]

like it's always been :spear:

though with the copper. I hope you recover sooner than Cathy does

Maquis · May 21, 2006

Ok, well great try bobrath. I wonder why Cathy keeps throwing settlers at that same site all the time?? Must be something there...

Anyways, I'm up, but I don't think I'll play until tomorrow. I'd like to get some discussion as to what to do with Cathy. We've fallen behind in techs again, and now with Longbows we're up against a wall.

(Why do I have the feeling the admins are letting out an evil laugh right about now reading about this... and how we've been set up!! :lol:

Options are:

1) Press on, and hope that we can break through the defenders at Moscow to take her down.

2) Sign peace, and try somehow try to catch up in techs enough to take her out later.

Thoughts??

GreyFox · May 21, 2006

My humble opion:
What's a few longbows? Just whip a few cats and Moscow is taken already. Maintain the siege. We are already committed. To hell with infrastructure. Whip a few axes and cats and finish off Cathy fast. Talk about re-building later.

--

ChrTh · May 21, 2006

GreyFox said:
My humble opion:
What's a few longbows? Just whip a few cats and Moscow is taken already. Maintain the siege. We are already committed. To hell with infrastructure. Whip a few axes and cats and finish off Cathy fast. Talk about re-building later.

--

...

which I hope doesn't end up being

:stupid:

eektor · May 21, 2006

I agree with GreyFox and ChrTh. We better finish Cathy quickly even if we take high casualties.

GreyFox · May 21, 2006

@ ChrTh ...

... who's up anyway? Maquis?

bobrath · May 22, 2006

Re: the massive Coloseum builds - I judged that with WW cutting every single city down in the important happy department, that taking a few turns to give us a bit more wiggle room would be worth it.

The following leaders might want to consider taking Cathy's other two towns and bleeding Moscow as they send out settler pairs or excursions. Just be sure to camp the ithsmus. I'd even suggest leaving a unit or two at the site of many cities to discourage further settlement. Every time a city pops up there, the culture on those gems gets reset. We could really use some happy resources about now (which is why I almost researched calendar instead of CoL).

If there's any way we can pull calendar from another civ, lets do it. I doubt we have that many oblisks that will be obsoleted.

Along those lines, we need religion *badly* but with no shrines built yet and limited open borders (keepin hoping Cyrus will come over our way), we're kinda stuck. Taking (and keeping) Moscow will give us a city with religion, and the first thing we need to do is spread that sucker to get our happy under control.

namliaM · May 22, 2006

Go go go... To bad about the Bronze, if we had done that 2 turnssets ago, that would have really helped but now Longbows... They dont need bronze or Iron

Atleast we wont be seeing any offensive units as if Longbows arent strong enough to take on our force :crazyeye:

Cats cats cats, and like GreyFox says... To hell with infra (and colleseums) for now. I allmost started some colloseums, but we need units... and a lot of them now... :sad:

I would even say pull back the campers of the Bronze and go all out for Moscow, once thats gone likely russia will fall soon... I would rather face an Axe than a longbow and what are the odds of Cathy actually hooking up the Bronze? That will take atleast 10 turns to mine right? Pillage the road and we add some more turns. And then she still needs to build an Axe and/or Spear thats another 2 turns or so?

ChrTh · May 22, 2006

BTW, don't know if anyone else mentioned it: Capac is on the other side of those mountains from us. We need to make sure we get Optics (and Caravels) before he does...

bobrath · May 22, 2006

My thought was to camp her "pain points" and pick off her sorties. This is also my reasoning for taking out her outlying cities. Make her reduce her stack escorting a settler out (we've seen AIs do this before).

Giza is producing a granary to improve our whiping ability there. Giza should be whipped every 15 turns on the turn. There are just no real hammers there to speak of.

The market in Thebes is to try to optimize out economy a bit by improving our best gold producer.

eektor · May 22, 2006

I was hoping some of the team's score will start decreasing but no such luck.

As for what to do, we need lots of catapults and then swordsmen to finish it off. We are probably looking at losing 2 axeman or swordsmen per longbowmen. So, we should try to have a 3:1 ratio not counting our catapults.

The longbowmen with city defense 2 will be tough to take out.

ChrTh · May 22, 2006

eektor said:
I was hoping some of the team's score will start decreasing but no such luck.

I'm guessing Team One took Moscow. I think every team will hit a plateau after Cathy is eliminated, some will just do it sooner than others. Since only diplomacy or domination are the winnable conditions, I don't think teams that take Cathy out earlier will gain that much of an advantage (especially since they'll need to deal with the costs of empire).

Maquis · May 22, 2006

Ok, sounds like everyone's in agreement... we're in this war with Cathy till the end...

I'm planning to get our stack built up a bit more (with cats mainly? A couple swords thrown in?) And focus on taking down Moscow.

I also agree with ChrTh... looks like Team One took out Moscow, and possibly Took Cathy out completely. Their score will level out once there's no one else to war with...

namliaM · May 22, 2006

Dont get upset, as its not score thats going to deside the winner

Its date... So lets work on Gandhi and find him...

Lets see if he is sharing with anyone and take it out as well.... Making gandi big will make Domination easier, but ... Diplo win? Is it a diplo win if Gandhi wins and we have a PA? (Alan?)

GreyFox · May 22, 2006

eektor said:
As for what to do, we need lots of catapults and then swordsmen to finish it off. We are probably looking at losing 2 axeman or swordsmen per longbowmen. So, we should try to have a 3:1 ratio not counting our catapults.

3:1??? That's a luxury we couldn't afford. Look at it this way. There are 9 defenders, you need to bring what, 27 units? :eek:

Suiciding 5 cats into the city, on the other hand, wiould be enough. Assuming each cat takes 0.5 off each defender due to collateral damage, the City Garrison II Longbowman with an original effective strength of 9(=6+50%) will be reduced to 5.5(3.5+50%). Easily killed with a CRII swordsman.

So, no, you don't need 3:1, you need 1:1 + 5 cats + a couple of extra units in case RNGod frowns at you.

--

Nobody will vote for Gandhi if he enters a PA with us, I think. So, the way I see it, our strategy should be:
(a) play nice with Gandhi with the aim of entering a PA;
(b) kill the rest to pursue the earliest Domination win, provided it does not interfere with (a), eg. killing friend of Gandhi; and
(c) if we have not won by the time UN is enabled, then build the UN and win by backdoor.

--

SGOTM 01 - V Q

Happy Yule!

Deity

Happy Yule!

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Emperor

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King

Make it so ...

Happy Yule!

Prince

Make it so ...

Emperor

Deity

Happy Yule!

Emperor

Prince

Happy Yule!

King

Deity

Make it so ...

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