SGOTM 02 - Fifth Element
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
Preturn 700BC
MMd Kyoto to speed up settler (I'm impatient)
Date off to scout W
Turn 2 685BC
Barb archer appears S of Osaka
Turn 3 670BC
Axe takes out archer, another appears directly behind the last - promoted him to be sure.
Kyoto settler > galley
Tokyo library > spear
Road to gold done. 2 turns to culture pop, so I'll start half a mine on plains hill (will signpost)
Turn 4 655BC
Axe wins, of course.
Axe barb appears S Tokyo - promoted our axe to woodI and stood in his way.
Whipped galley in Kyoto (told you I'm impatient)
Izzy is quarrying the stone we used to own. Sssooo tempted to steal worker, but we aren't prepared... it is there for 6 turns, tho...
Turn 5 640BC
settler en route
Osaka axe > axe - new axe to replace barb killer to gain xp - no, changed my mind, going to Tokyo just in case Izzy gets fiesty, and if I feel like a worker theft.
Turn 6 625BC
Izzy wants sailing - Go to hell!
Osaka culture pops - stagnate growth, max hammers, cut a few turns off axe
Date spies barb warrior, but ignores him and scouts toledo - doesnt seem special yet. 3 archers there.
Turn 7 610BC
Surf and Turf founded. (lighthouse)
Turn 10 BC565
Quarry finished decided not to steal worker, but it still needs a road. Izzy's "power" is similar to ours now.
Turn 11 550BC
Gold mine is done. The money is flowing in now. btw palace will take 27 turns in Osaka.
Finding it difficult to keep Kyoto stagnant!
Turn 12 535BC
Tokyo claimed the stone back. Thanks Izzy!
Turn 14 505BC
Pyramids BIAFAL
Turn 15 490BC
Izzy adopts police state!
Barbs
MMd Kyoto to speed up settler (I'm impatient)
Date off to scout W
Turn 2 685BC
Barb archer appears S of Osaka
Turn 3 670BC
Axe takes out archer, another appears directly behind the last - promoted him to be sure.
Kyoto settler > galley
Tokyo library > spear
Road to gold done. 2 turns to culture pop, so I'll start half a mine on plains hill (will signpost)
Turn 4 655BC
Axe wins, of course.
Axe barb appears S Tokyo - promoted our axe to woodI and stood in his way.
Whipped galley in Kyoto (told you I'm impatient)
Izzy is quarrying the stone we used to own. Sssooo tempted to steal worker, but we aren't prepared... it is there for 6 turns, tho...
Turn 5 640BC
settler en route
Osaka axe > axe - new axe to replace barb killer to gain xp - no, changed my mind, going to Tokyo just in case Izzy gets fiesty, and if I feel like a worker theft.
Turn 6 625BC
Izzy wants sailing - Go to hell!
Osaka culture pops - stagnate growth, max hammers, cut a few turns off axe
Date spies barb warrior, but ignores him and scouts toledo - doesnt seem special yet. 3 archers there.
Turn 7 610BC
Surf and Turf founded. (lighthouse)
Turn 10 BC565
Quarry finished decided not to steal worker, but it still needs a road. Izzy's "power" is similar to ours now.
Turn 11 550BC
Gold mine is done. The money is flowing in now. btw palace will take 27 turns in Osaka.
Finding it difficult to keep Kyoto stagnant!
Turn 12 535BC
Tokyo claimed the stone back. Thanks Izzy!
Turn 14 505BC
Pyramids BIAFAL
Turn 15 490BC
Izzy adopts police state!
Barbs
Sweetacshon
In the foetal position
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Good turnset Sweetacshon 
, seems Spain will be a rich plunder, with Pyramids 
.
@Team
I downladed the save, just to take a closer look.
Kyoto should be South of the Equator, looking at the resource-bubbles, and Surf at North.
I've learned this in a thread in GotM, resources arrows ALWAYS point to the Equator, and the ones in Kyoto (and in Osaka region) point NORTH, when the ones in Surf point South, so the Equator has to be in the sea between Kyoto and Surf.
As i already wrote, better keep the galley (when not on ferry duties) N or W the Stone island, to avoid barb galleys pop-up.
Another idea, looking at the revealed map, but firstly coming from the knowledge Izzy got Pyramids (in Madrid at 99%):
We'll let her with one city (if she'll give us some techs), but this will be Toledo, not the far Madrid, where she probably has horses, and we don't know, but perhaps some copper or iron.
What do you think about?
, seems Spain will be a rich plunder, with Pyramids .@Team
I downladed the save, just to take a closer look.
Kyoto should be South of the Equator, looking at the resource-bubbles, and Surf at North.
I've learned this in a thread in GotM, resources arrows ALWAYS point to the Equator, and the ones in Kyoto (and in Osaka region) point NORTH, when the ones in Surf point South, so the Equator has to be in the sea between Kyoto and Surf.
As i already wrote, better keep the galley (when not on ferry duties) N or W the Stone island, to avoid barb galleys pop-up.
Another idea, looking at the revealed map, but firstly coming from the knowledge Izzy got Pyramids (in Madrid at 99%):
We'll let her with one city (if she'll give us some techs), but this will be Toledo, not the far Madrid, where she probably has horses, and we don't know, but perhaps some copper or iron.
What do you think about?
Nice turnset Sweetacshon. I downloaded the save to take a look.
With binary research, we need to be keeping track of when the tech can be learned by jumping to 100%. IW is not discovered yet, but can be in 5 turns at 100%. Next player should do this since we have twice as much gold as we need to finish IW.
I also think we should prioritize a WB in Tokyo. It needs some food or it will never grow.
Also, we should finish the worker in Kyoto. We need to pasture that cow in Surf and Turn to get some hammers. Speaking of Kyoto, it looks like the unhappiness for cruel oppression will end in 4 turns. If we let it start growing, we can probably time growth to coincide with happiness.
MM in Osaka: we can pick up an extra GPT by working the oasis 1W of the flood plain we are currently working.
Also, I think I'd switch Surf and Turf from lighthouse to library. Food will not be a problem there, but we would like the borders to expand to see if there are nearby lands. It will also help with research, as fishing villages do provide some useful gold.
With binary research, we need to be keeping track of when the tech can be learned by jumping to 100%. IW is not discovered yet, but can be in 5 turns at 100%. Next player should do this since we have twice as much gold as we need to finish IW.
I also think we should prioritize a WB in Tokyo. It needs some food or it will never grow.
Also, we should finish the worker in Kyoto. We need to pasture that cow in Surf and Turn to get some hammers. Speaking of Kyoto, it looks like the unhappiness for cruel oppression will end in 4 turns. If we let it start growing, we can probably time growth to coincide with happiness.
MM in Osaka: we can pick up an extra GPT by working the oasis 1W of the flood plain we are currently working.
Also, I think I'd switch Surf and Turf from lighthouse to library. Food will not be a problem there, but we would like the borders to expand to see if there are nearby lands. It will also help with research, as fishing villages do provide some useful gold.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
BrianS said:
I'd like to do, but it's a waste if will be destroyed by spanish or barbs.
Better a galley, to protect it, then the WB.
Agree about library in Surf, and about worker, too.
If we think we can afford to maintain the worker, after his job near Surf he can go in the stone island to fogbust.
What do you think about my strategy for Spain?
How can you see how many turns are left after a "cruel oppression"?
@Perugia
We already know Math, I recommend the path for CoL
Perugia
Prince
If the break even rate for gold is 70% then its more efficient to run science at 0% for 3 turns and follow this by 7 turns at 100%.
Here is a simple example to explain why. Suppose you have once city with 4 commerce and a library. If you run at 70% for 10 turns you will acquire 20 gold and 20 beakers. The Library will do no good and you end up with a total commerce gain of 40. If you run at 0% for 3 turns and 100% for 7 you end up with 12 gold and 35 beakers which totals 47 commerce, an improvement of 7.
edit
We need to decide whether moving the Palace to Osaka is a good Idea or just wait for the FP. We also need to factor in what we use the GS we will get soon in Kyoto for an Academy rather than a tech then leaving the Palace +8 commerce there will pass it through the Academies +50% multiplier.
I do not see any need to keep Kyoto stagnant. The greater our pop the more military units we can support for free and the more opportunities we get for whipping. You get the same unhappiness hit for whipping 2 or 3 citzens as 1 so it's a good idea to build up a pool of unhappy citizens then whip them for something expensive. The only reason I see for limiting city growth is when the city will be in starvation and unhappy and Kyoto is way off that. Conceivably a settler or worker farm would also not want unhappy citizens eating surplus food but Kyoto is not there either.
I have the save and will look at tonight with a view to playing tomorrow. I will learn IW what next?, Math or Pottery for chop or growth bonuses or should we start down one of the paths to CoL ie targetting Priesthood or Currency?
@Blubmuz: Your Spain strategy of leaving her 1 city could be good. I'd say let's see how things develop before deciding which city that is. Maybe we should drive our stack up Seville, Barcelona and presumably what is Madrid to the N. This leaves open Toledo or Cordoba as possible cities (neither which look particularly strong) to leave Izzy if we decide not to wipe her out.
@Perugia: Good question about whether to go for currency or religious path to COL. If we ever find some trading partners, the religious techs should be easy/cheap to get. Currency could help us maintain our farflung empire. It might also provide good trade material. As Blubmuz points out, the lovely Merit Ptah lightbulbed math for us. EDIT: Further thought leads me to consider Pottery first. It will give us granaries for helping with the whip, and we sure could use some cottages.
We will get another GS in Kyoto before too long, and we need to think about whether to use it for another tech (which I think would be compass) or an academy. Compass would be useful in progresing us towards Optics.
@Blubmuz: You can tell how many turns of cruel oppression remain by hovering the mouse pointer over the Whip Rush button. If it says rushing will cause 20 turns of unhappiness, it means that you still have 5 turns remaining from your last whip. Each fresh whip causes 15 turns of unhappiness.
@Perugia: Good question about whether to go for currency or religious path to COL. If we ever find some trading partners, the religious techs should be easy/cheap to get. Currency could help us maintain our farflung empire. It might also provide good trade material. As Blubmuz points out, the lovely Merit Ptah lightbulbed math for us. EDIT: Further thought leads me to consider Pottery first. It will give us granaries for helping with the whip, and we sure could use some cottages.
We will get another GS in Kyoto before too long, and we need to think about whether to use it for another tech (which I think would be compass) or an academy. Compass would be useful in progresing us towards Optics.
@Blubmuz: You can tell how many turns of cruel oppression remain by hovering the mouse pointer over the Whip Rush button. If it says rushing will cause 20 turns of unhappiness, it means that you still have 5 turns remaining from your last whip. Each fresh whip causes 15 turns of unhappiness.
Perugia
Prince
Looking at its cultural border Madrid is 4N 1NE of Barcelona. I like the idea of attacking Seville, Barcelona, Madrid. I think it would be best to relocate the Spanish capital to Toledo to minimise the problem from culture as its the furthest away and isolated from the other cities.
We are already paying 3 gpt in unit maintenance so need to grow our cities as fast as possible.
Therefore, I'm going to optimise Kyoto for commerce then growth for the reasons I gave in post #147.
Just noticed Osaka is working the FP instead of the Oasis so I will switch over (the FP will get worked in 2 turns when the city grows). Osaka is crying out for Market so that leans me towards the currency route to CoL especially as BrianS argued the AI will have researched the religions path.
Just a random thought but Kyoto might benefit from a GS as the +6 beakers will approximately equal the effect of an Academy and this will provide a much needed extra hammer. Of course if we can get Optics first it would be better to ship the GS over to Osaka.
I think Toyota has 2 choices and I'm not sure which at this stage
a) half road the 3 flat tiles N of the river while heading towards the river hill and build a mine.
b) mine the grass hill to keep food intake up and thus max population to support our military.
BTW we should queue up our 2 spears & 2 archers so we don't pay more support than we have 2 and only complete axes (we can build up loads of unhappy citizens in Osaka so we can chop the last few axes in one go).
I will play tomorrow and build our army whilst minimising its effect on research.
Tokyo is a production powerhouse now we have the stone back. I agree with Brian that the big problem is its low population and growth. BLumbuz has a good point about any FB getting pillaged so as a viable alternative we can build a lighthouse. As we are Organised, this will take exactly the same time as a WB. This will net us only +1 food from the fish but is non-pillagable so no need for a galley and makes the coast tiles practical to use should we want max science at any time. A granary would help also so I'm inclined to select pottery after IW.BLumbuz said:
We are already paying 3 gpt in unit maintenance so need to grow our cities as fast as possible.
Therefore, I'm going to optimise Kyoto for commerce then growth for the reasons I gave in post #147.
Just noticed Osaka is working the FP instead of the Oasis so I will switch over (the FP will get worked in 2 turns when the city grows). Osaka is crying out for Market so that leans me towards the currency route to CoL especially as BrianS argued the AI will have researched the religions path.
Just a random thought but Kyoto might benefit from a GS as the +6 beakers will approximately equal the effect of an Academy and this will provide a much needed extra hammer. Of course if we can get Optics first it would be better to ship the GS over to Osaka.
I think Toyota has 2 choices and I'm not sure which at this stage
a) half road the 3 flat tiles N of the river while heading towards the river hill and build a mine.
b) mine the grass hill to keep food intake up and thus max population to support our military.
BTW we should queue up our 2 spears & 2 archers so we don't pay more support than we have 2 and only complete axes (we can build up loads of unhappy citizens in Osaka so we can chop the last few axes in one go).
I will play tomorrow and build our army whilst minimising its effect on research.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
Perugia said:
A GS specialist would equal an academy in the short term, but in the long term we would benefit more from the academy, once we have universities and observatories (assuming the game lasts that long). An academy will also give a cultural boost, and help to expand borders there.
Good question. If we move the palace to Osaka, we may find that we just have to build the FP later back at Kyoto, which is a waste of hammer. However, it's now appearing likely that there is another big continent somewhere out there, and we may want to put our FP there when we get around to conquering it. Also, waiting for 8 cities and 6 courthouses to build the FP will put a big delay in getting relief in Osakaland. Maybe we should just bite the bullet and build the Palace in Osaka. However, I'd be inclined to delay it until we've built our death to Izzy stack.
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
To be honest, i forget there was a "currency route" to CoL (in my recent games I always went for a CS slingshot), seems good to me.
But I'll research anyway the very cheap Myst, to obtain more expensive techs like medit or poly from Izzy to stop our first spanish war.
Don't forget we'll can obtain pottery, too and that, for now, our worker won't have the time to build cottages.
About Palace or FP in Osaka, at the moment I'm undecided, anyway, we'll can decide after the 1st spanish war.
But I'll research anyway the very cheap Myst, to obtain more expensive techs like medit or poly from Izzy to stop our first spanish war.
Don't forget we'll can obtain pottery, too and that, for now, our worker won't have the time to build cottages.
About Palace or FP in Osaka, at the moment I'm undecided, anyway, we'll can decide after the 1st spanish war.
Merum
Permanent Jet Lag
Whichever city we leave Izzy, let's make sure we grab the pyramid city (Probably Madrid). That will give us a huge boost in terms of Gov't civics we can run.
Perugia
Prince
It is Madrid - I can see that from the Wonder screen.Merum said:
RE: GS vs Academy. I think you are wrong about the Academy getting a boost from Universities and Observatories. I would have thought that the Academy just multiplies the base research + the input from any specialialists whereas it is the GS benefits from Library, University and Observatory the Academy just acts as another multiplier.
BLumbuz. I'm glad you like he Currency route to CoL, let's do that. I like your idea to research Mysticism so we can get a more expensive one in the peace deal, I've used this myself in solo games. I was going to research pottery as I didn't think Izzy had it so thanks for that I'll make sure I check when playing.
I agree about our worker not having time for many cottages, I was more interested in Pottery for the granaries to double our growth rate so we can afford a bigger army. It may be a while before we get round to them in Osaka and Tokyo but Surf and Turf and Kyoto can used them to grow to starvation limits.
I have everone's input and there's nowill play just as soon as I've eaten along the lines.
Perugia
Prince
Turn 0 - 490BC
Set science slider to 100% for IW in 5 at -29gpt (244 in treasury)
Switch production in Tokyo (size 2, grow in 32) from spearman to lighthouse (due in 9) to improve growth rate.
As warriors are now obsolete promote Jigoro to Medic I.
Switch a citizen in Osaka from FP to Oasis for +1 commerce.
Send some axes out on barb patrol to gain XP, recall 10/10 warriors as they can't gain any more barb XP.
Citizens 12
Free support 10
Units 15
Unit cost 3
Turn 1 - 475BC
Send Toyoda towards Tokyo to chop a forest between Cordoba and Seville 3 tiles from the city, build a half road on the way (and mark with a sign). As we are building lighthouse this chop will net a 100% bonus which makes up for it being outside our cultural borders. We will get 40 hammers.
Turn 2 - 460BC
Kyoto grows and completes WB, start another WB ahead of queued worker to maintain growth.
Osaka grows and is MM to work river FP ahead of forest to maintain growth and net an extra coin.
Izzy has learned sailing.
A barb archer approaches our gold mine so send axeman Sama that has just fully healed over incase barb bypasses Jin our archer
Turn 3 - 445BC
Jin defeats the barb and moves up to 10/10, Jin is retired to medic in Osaka to heal up while Sama takes over guard duty on the gold.
Surf n Turf grows and is MM to work the fish where the WB is headed.
Toyoda starts the planned chop which will net 40 hammers into Tokyo in 5 turns just as the Lighthouse has 1 turn left which will nearly all overflow (spear currently shows 6/52).
Barb axe found in SE.
Turn 4 - 430BC
Barb axe attacks our axe and loses. Our axe renamed Aikido and now 8/10.
Kyoto can now work another tile as unhappiness from whip has worked off. It also has the health back to evens as the clams from are connected at Surf n Turf. Galley zzzzs on the clam fishing boats at Surf and Turf (at least until the worker is built).
Decide to put the worker back on the queue now (due in 5) as Surf N Turf could do with the hammers.
With the WB removed the extra pop starts to bite into unit costs
Citizens 15
Free support 11
Units 15
Unit cost 2
Turn 5 - 425BC
IW completed, start Currency (due in 11) but set science rate to 0% as we only have enough gold for 3 turns. Currency will net us +1 trade routes and markets and enable CoL. Osaka axe > axe. Osaka has a source of iron on the grass hill 2W of the city, oh boy!!!!!!!!!. I was going to mine that hill but sent the worker to Tokyo. will recall him after the chop completes (in 3 turns). Can't see any Iron to the north but some may be hidden in the fog. There is iron 3 tiles from Toledo so it may not be a good idea to leave that as Izzies last city.
I'm posting this after 5 turns so everyone can rejoice in the iron location.
Set science slider to 100% for IW in 5 at -29gpt (244 in treasury)
Switch production in Tokyo (size 2, grow in 32) from spearman to lighthouse (due in 9) to improve growth rate.
As warriors are now obsolete promote Jigoro to Medic I.
Switch a citizen in Osaka from FP to Oasis for +1 commerce.
Send some axes out on barb patrol to gain XP, recall 10/10 warriors as they can't gain any more barb XP.
Citizens 12
Free support 10
Units 15
Unit cost 3
Turn 1 - 475BC
Send Toyoda towards Tokyo to chop a forest between Cordoba and Seville 3 tiles from the city, build a half road on the way (and mark with a sign). As we are building lighthouse this chop will net a 100% bonus which makes up for it being outside our cultural borders. We will get 40 hammers.
Turn 2 - 460BC
Kyoto grows and completes WB, start another WB ahead of queued worker to maintain growth.
Osaka grows and is MM to work river FP ahead of forest to maintain growth and net an extra coin.
Izzy has learned sailing.
A barb archer approaches our gold mine so send axeman Sama that has just fully healed over incase barb bypasses Jin our archer
Turn 3 - 445BC
Jin defeats the barb and moves up to 10/10, Jin is retired to medic in Osaka to heal up while Sama takes over guard duty on the gold.
Surf n Turf grows and is MM to work the fish where the WB is headed.
Toyoda starts the planned chop which will net 40 hammers into Tokyo in 5 turns just as the Lighthouse has 1 turn left which will nearly all overflow (spear currently shows 6/52).
Barb axe found in SE.
Turn 4 - 430BC
Barb axe attacks our axe and loses. Our axe renamed Aikido and now 8/10.
Kyoto can now work another tile as unhappiness from whip has worked off. It also has the health back to evens as the clams from are connected at Surf n Turf. Galley zzzzs on the clam fishing boats at Surf and Turf (at least until the worker is built).
Decide to put the worker back on the queue now (due in 5) as Surf N Turf could do with the hammers.
With the WB removed the extra pop starts to bite into unit costs
Citizens 15
Free support 11
Units 15
Unit cost 2
Turn 5 - 425BC
IW completed, start Currency (due in 11) but set science rate to 0% as we only have enough gold for 3 turns. Currency will net us +1 trade routes and markets and enable CoL. Osaka axe > axe. Osaka has a source of iron on the grass hill 2W of the city, oh boy!!!!!!!!!. I was going to mine that hill but sent the worker to Tokyo. will recall him after the chop completes (in 3 turns). Can't see any Iron to the north but some may be hidden in the fog. There is iron 3 tiles from Toledo so it may not be a good idea to leave that as Izzies last city.
I'm posting this after 5 turns so everyone can rejoice in the iron location.
Doom Train
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2002
- Messages
- 204
Wow nice iron location if there is no iron in north then we can assume that we have Pyramids + few Spanish cities. Getting that wonder will make our game lot easier.
. Getting that wonder will make our game lot easier.Perugia
Prince
Turn 5 - 415BC
IW completed, start Currency (due in 11) but set science rate to 0% as we only have enough gold for 3 turns. Currency will net us +1 trade routes and markets and enable CoL. Osaka axe > axe which increases Unit cost bact to 3. Osaka has a source of iron on the grass hill 2W of the city, oh boy!!!!!!!!!. I was going to mine that hill but sent the worker to Tokyo. will recall him after the chop completes (in 3 turns). There is also iron 3 tiles from Toledo so it may now be a good idea to leave that as Izzies last city.
As BLumbuz mentioned Izzy does have Pottery so we can pick that up from Spain. For better growth we can build our cheap Lighthouses for now (all cities are coastal except Osaka). As they lack forests, Surf n Turf and Kyoto can pop rush instead.
Find a barb axe near the horses S of Osaka. We are in a forest but in order not to take too many hits. I give our axe Combat II (I thought about Shock but Izzy does not appear to have any Melee units so that would be a waste).
Turn 6 - 400BC
Can see the cultural border of a barb city in the far SW and send Sama to investigate.
The barb axe is cut up and our winning axe is renamed Sushi and given cover and set to heal for 2 turns.
Turn 7 - 385BC
zzzzzz
Turn 8 - 370BC
Lighthouse completed in Tokyo increasing surplus food to 2. Only 15 hammers overflowed into Spearman.
Ippon reaches far SE of our continent and finds another iron deposit.
Turn 9 - 355BC
Kyoto completes worker the overflow of 11 gets converted into 22 as Lighthouse is next on the queue - that's more like it!
Turn 10 - 340BC
Confucianism FIDL and we are still so far back from researching CoL ourselves, Hmmmmm.
Turn 11 - 325BC
Sushi encounters a barb S of Osaka.
Iron mine started.
Aryan being scouted in SW has fish & sheep and is defended by 3 archers + worker. Maybe we can steal the worker and promote some city attackers but it's not worth capturing.
Citizens 15
Free support 11
Units 17
Unit cost 4
MM for increased growth to improve the situation.
Turn 12 - 310BC
Sushi dies but is reincarnated in Osaka.
Surf n Turf & Osaka grow improving Unit costs
Citizens 17
Free support 12
Units 17
Unit cost 3
Turn 13 - 295BC
A 4th archer is born in Aryan and suicides itself against Sama soppting the city from a forest. Sama promoted to cover and set to heal for 2 turns.
Izzy has 2 workers building cottages and one is guarded by a chariot.
Turn 14 - 280 BC
The Great Lighthouse FIDL.
We now have 315 gold in treasury so set our research labs to work on currency at 100% -32gpt due in 10. Unit costs are 3 gpt
Turn 15 - 265BC
Sush II takes revenge on the wounded barb axe.
Summary
We now have enough gold to research currency at 100%. The worker at Surf n Turf will complete the pasture in 2 turns which will give a boost to growth and production. After this is roaded the health at Kyoto will be under control again. Kyoto is growing unhappy faces nicely so we will be able to pop rush a market there when the number of pop needed to complete it equals the number of unhappy citizens (that way there will be no pop rush penalty).
The iron mine is also due in 2 turns so a citizen needs to move from the FP to there which will stagnate the city at max health (leaving one unhappy face for axe/sword rush just before we DoW on Izzy. A road there will allow us to build swordsmen which are better than axes at attacking cities defended by archers.
Currency is due in 9. Just a thought but, we can shave a turn off this by MM Tokyo and Surf n Turf for 4 more commerce. This means working coast tiles instead of cow and stone so probably is not worth it especially with Osaka dropping a commerce tile in order to work the iron when it comes on stream. It would cost approx 96 hammers to do this which I think is a bit costly at this stage especially as 80 of those hammers are at cities gearing up for the war on Spain. It does mean that when the treasury empties on the last turn we will still learn CoL even at reduced science rate.
Tokyo grows in 2 turns and could work either coast or grass forest which could change things a bit. It also has the copper mine that can be used to MM to pop a unit quicker just before we DoW but has the downside of stagnating the city.
Please make sure at this stage that we do not spend gold on supply.
There are 2 sources of iron in the south that Izzy has not claimed yet. We should watch for her sending a settler to the iron/wheat site between Aryan and Toledo.
As a matter of interest for future reference, there are also some good city sites to the south so it would be a good idea to move the Palace to Osaka (or build the FP) for a very productive continent. It appears Izzy and us are alone on this continent and rather backward so it appears we need Astronomy to win so should make getting optics a priority to see if there's a culture bridge possible to avoid this.
The save
IW completed, start Currency (due in 11) but set science rate to 0% as we only have enough gold for 3 turns. Currency will net us +1 trade routes and markets and enable CoL. Osaka axe > axe which increases Unit cost bact to 3. Osaka has a source of iron on the grass hill 2W of the city, oh boy!!!!!!!!!. I was going to mine that hill but sent the worker to Tokyo. will recall him after the chop completes (in 3 turns). There is also iron 3 tiles from Toledo so it may now be a good idea to leave that as Izzies last city.
As BLumbuz mentioned Izzy does have Pottery so we can pick that up from Spain. For better growth we can build our cheap Lighthouses for now (all cities are coastal except Osaka). As they lack forests, Surf n Turf and Kyoto can pop rush instead.
Find a barb axe near the horses S of Osaka. We are in a forest but in order not to take too many hits. I give our axe Combat II (I thought about Shock but Izzy does not appear to have any Melee units so that would be a waste).
Turn 6 - 400BC
Can see the cultural border of a barb city in the far SW and send Sama to investigate.
The barb axe is cut up and our winning axe is renamed Sushi and given cover and set to heal for 2 turns.
Turn 7 - 385BC
zzzzzz
Turn 8 - 370BC
Lighthouse completed in Tokyo increasing surplus food to 2. Only 15 hammers overflowed into Spearman.
Ippon reaches far SE of our continent and finds another iron deposit.
Turn 9 - 355BC
Kyoto completes worker the overflow of 11 gets converted into 22 as Lighthouse is next on the queue - that's more like it!
Turn 10 - 340BC
Confucianism FIDL and we are still so far back from researching CoL ourselves, Hmmmmm.
Turn 11 - 325BC
Sushi encounters a barb S of Osaka.
Iron mine started.
Aryan being scouted in SW has fish & sheep and is defended by 3 archers + worker. Maybe we can steal the worker and promote some city attackers but it's not worth capturing.
Citizens 15
Free support 11
Units 17
Unit cost 4
MM for increased growth to improve the situation.
Turn 12 - 310BC
Sushi dies but is reincarnated in Osaka.
Surf n Turf & Osaka grow improving Unit costs
Citizens 17
Free support 12
Units 17
Unit cost 3
Turn 13 - 295BC
A 4th archer is born in Aryan and suicides itself against Sama soppting the city from a forest. Sama promoted to cover and set to heal for 2 turns.
Izzy has 2 workers building cottages and one is guarded by a chariot.
Turn 14 - 280 BC
The Great Lighthouse FIDL.
We now have 315 gold in treasury so set our research labs to work on currency at 100% -32gpt due in 10. Unit costs are 3 gpt
Turn 15 - 265BC
Sush II takes revenge on the wounded barb axe.
Summary
We now have enough gold to research currency at 100%. The worker at Surf n Turf will complete the pasture in 2 turns which will give a boost to growth and production. After this is roaded the health at Kyoto will be under control again. Kyoto is growing unhappy faces nicely so we will be able to pop rush a market there when the number of pop needed to complete it equals the number of unhappy citizens (that way there will be no pop rush penalty).
The iron mine is also due in 2 turns so a citizen needs to move from the FP to there which will stagnate the city at max health (leaving one unhappy face for axe/sword rush just before we DoW on Izzy. A road there will allow us to build swordsmen which are better than axes at attacking cities defended by archers.
Currency is due in 9. Just a thought but, we can shave a turn off this by MM Tokyo and Surf n Turf for 4 more commerce. This means working coast tiles instead of cow and stone so probably is not worth it especially with Osaka dropping a commerce tile in order to work the iron when it comes on stream. It would cost approx 96 hammers to do this which I think is a bit costly at this stage especially as 80 of those hammers are at cities gearing up for the war on Spain. It does mean that when the treasury empties on the last turn we will still learn CoL even at reduced science rate.
Tokyo grows in 2 turns and could work either coast or grass forest which could change things a bit. It also has the copper mine that can be used to MM to pop a unit quicker just before we DoW but has the downside of stagnating the city.
Please make sure at this stage that we do not spend gold on supply.
There are 2 sources of iron in the south that Izzy has not claimed yet. We should watch for her sending a settler to the iron/wheat site between Aryan and Toledo.
As a matter of interest for future reference, there are also some good city sites to the south so it would be a good idea to move the Palace to Osaka (or build the FP) for a very productive continent. It appears Izzy and us are alone on this continent and rather backward so it appears we need Astronomy to win so should make getting optics a priority to see if there's a culture bridge possible to avoid this.
The save
Spoiler :
BLubmuz
HoF Quattromaster
Nice turnset, Perugia, and very detailed post, too .
Osaka was a good city, with iron is a true powerhouse.
Tokyo, ASA we'll have the wb (protected) is not bad.
I've seen in F9 Madrid has Oracle (940 BC) in addition to Pyramids (520 BC)
(not important for us, but interesting: Izzy can't have a strong military, with all that resources spent for wonders) I wonder to know which tech she get from, surely not CoL, she has no religion... perhaps MC???
I got and opened the save
@Team
1) probably we'll need to stop research for 1 or 2 turns, now we have 283 in bank, with -32*9=288, probably raised by our new units.
Then I suggest to research Myst to better see what Izzy has, then stop research for 2 or 3 turns, then go straight to currency, unless we decide *yes* about my (7).
BTW Myst can speed a beat the research for CoL, being one of the prerequisites for it (there is a thread somewhere).
2) ASA the Iron mine is completed and roaded, we'll need 1 road NW Osaka and another in the stone, to speed up our troops to north.
3) All new axes and swords will be promoted to CR1 - OK???
4) We must define how many units we need to DoW - My strategy (already posted, but i resume):
we need 2 stacks, each composed by:
1 archer to keep the cities, 1 spear and - could be sufficient 2 axes and 2 swords for stack???
I know the more we have the more we speed up our war, but we risk Izzy went too strong
of course we'll need some unit to fogbust and to control Toledo.
5) I'm not concerned about the iron S of Toledo, also with the Palace jump after the fall of Madrid, before that city expands the borders and the iron is (eventually) hooked, the 10 turns are gone.
6) If we all agree on (5), we need to send a stack to Cordoba, a second one to Seville, then attack Barcelona from S and E, in the meantime we'll produce some new axe and sword, to beeline Madrid
7) There's the chance to promote 1 of our warriors for 110, (3 turns of research, roughly) what about???
I will edit this trying to define what to do, by reading your post while lookin' at the save.
8) Don't forget that *when* we'll conquer Madrid, we'll can revolt to representation, gaining happy faces and research (we'll have at least 4 scientists - or merchants - at that time). And that we should gain at least 300 gold by conquering the cities.
9) Just to sell the fur before have the bear killed (free translation of an Italian saying), all the spanish cities seem in good positions, one more reason to keep them.
10) I will recall Sama (8 turns for Osaka), the nameless axe and Sushi 2 immediatly, they are the best units we have
In addition to the stack, we can keep home the warriors (but Jigoro, medic1), 1 archer for each city, 1 axe to watch Toledo (from the Iron Hill) and 2 axes to fogbust south
Also. don't forget Izzy has a +25% production for military units, with her favourite civ, police state
I'll play tomorrow, waiting for your opinions until 08.00PM GMT
Anyway I don't think the war will be started by me, probably Doom or Merum, this is only to define our strategy, that is not so long-term, now.
@ Perugia
better repeat the players succession, i think it's lost some 2 or 3 pages back
what means MM ??? MicroManagement ?
@BrianS - your post 160
I'm afraid war can last for too long, better have our stacks completed, probably we'll loose some unit, since training and bring new units at the front is not so fast.
After your post about walls, i took a closer look to the spanish cities, and:
- Cordoba and Seville have both Barracks and Obelisk (probably due to Japanese presence)
- Barcelona (strange, is the 2nd city) and Toledo, nothing
- NO walls, in any city in 265 BC
.Osaka was a good city, with iron is a true powerhouse.
Tokyo, ASA we'll have the wb (protected) is not bad.
I've seen in F9 Madrid has Oracle (940 BC) in addition to Pyramids (520 BC)
(not important for us, but interesting: Izzy can't have a strong military, with all that resources spent for wonders) I wonder to know which tech she get from, surely not CoL, she has no religion... perhaps MC???
I got and opened the save
@Team
1) probably we'll need to stop research for 1 or 2 turns, now we have 283 in bank, with -32*9=288, probably raised by our new units.
Then I suggest to research Myst to better see what Izzy has, then stop research for 2 or 3 turns, then go straight to currency, unless we decide *yes* about my (7).
BTW Myst can speed a beat the research for CoL, being one of the prerequisites for it (there is a thread somewhere).
2) ASA the Iron mine is completed and roaded, we'll need 1 road NW Osaka and another in the stone, to speed up our troops to north.
3) All new axes and swords will be promoted to CR1 - OK???
4) We must define how many units we need to DoW - My strategy (already posted, but i resume):
we need 2 stacks, each composed by:
1 archer to keep the cities, 1 spear and - could be sufficient 2 axes and 2 swords for stack???
I know the more we have the more we speed up our war, but we risk Izzy went too strong
of course we'll need some unit to fogbust and to control Toledo.
5) I'm not concerned about the iron S of Toledo, also with the Palace jump after the fall of Madrid, before that city expands the borders and the iron is (eventually) hooked, the 10 turns are gone.
6) If we all agree on (5), we need to send a stack to Cordoba, a second one to Seville, then attack Barcelona from S and E, in the meantime we'll produce some new axe and sword, to beeline Madrid
7) There's the chance to promote 1 of our warriors for 110, (3 turns of research, roughly) what about???
I will edit this trying to define what to do, by reading your post while lookin' at the save.
8) Don't forget that *when* we'll conquer Madrid, we'll can revolt to representation, gaining happy faces and research (we'll have at least 4 scientists - or merchants - at that time). And that we should gain at least 300 gold by conquering the cities.
9) Just to sell the fur before have the bear killed (free translation of an Italian saying), all the spanish cities seem in good positions, one more reason to keep them.
10) I will recall Sama (8 turns for Osaka), the nameless axe and Sushi 2 immediatly, they are the best units we have
In addition to the stack, we can keep home the warriors (but Jigoro, medic1), 1 archer for each city, 1 axe to watch Toledo (from the Iron Hill) and 2 axes to fogbust south
Also. don't forget Izzy has a +25% production for military units, with her favourite civ, police state
I'll play tomorrow, waiting for your opinions until 08.00PM GMT
Anyway I don't think the war will be started by me, probably Doom or Merum, this is only to define our strategy, that is not so long-term, now.
@ Perugia
better repeat the players succession, i think it's lost some 2 or 3 pages back
what means MM ??? MicroManagement ?
@BrianS - your post 160
I'm afraid war can last for too long, better have our stacks completed, probably we'll loose some unit, since training and bring new units at the front is not so fast.
After your post about walls, i took a closer look to the spanish cities, and:
- Cordoba and Seville have both Barracks and Obelisk (probably due to Japanese presence)
- Barcelona (strange, is the 2nd city) and Toledo, nothing
- NO walls, in any city in 265 BC
Nice turnset Perugia.
Blubmuz, agree with your thoughts on military. Should we attack Seville as soon as we can, even if we don't have swords yet? Cordoba has walls and will likely need swords, but we might be able to take Seville quickly with just axes. A stack of 4 axes and a spear could probably take it.
I'm not sure what our builds are at the moment, but I'm assuming it's nothing but military for the time being in Tokyo and Osaka.
I've lost track of order, so I went back a few pages and this is what I show.
Perugia (resting)
BLubmuz (UP)
Doom Train (on deck)
Merum
BrianS
Sweetacshon
Blubmuz, agree with your thoughts on military. Should we attack Seville as soon as we can, even if we don't have swords yet? Cordoba has walls and will likely need swords, but we might be able to take Seville quickly with just axes. A stack of 4 axes and a spear could probably take it.
I'm not sure what our builds are at the moment, but I'm assuming it's nothing but military for the time being in Tokyo and Osaka.
I've lost track of order, so I went back a few pages and this is what I show.
Perugia (resting)
BLubmuz (UP)
Doom Train (on deck)
Merum
BrianS
Sweetacshon
Similar threads
- Sticky
