SGOTM 02 - Team CFR
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Dynamic
But not hurry
I can't make a deep view on the save now, but I think we need wait a little bit with Astro trading...
Balbes
Instigator
Isn't it better to trade Civil Service for Feudalism?
CS will allow them to build maces. I don't think it is such a big deal though, saurais are stronger. Trading Astro may get us in trouble if AI colonise a faraway island that we don't know of, but this is not very likely. In any case, we want feudalism ASAP, we just need to decide what tech to give away. I am not sure which one is better.
Like we have a choice of which tech to trade away 
War would have put their minds on things other than shipwrighting, but no means no.
Haven't found any faraway islands yet. The Kyoto archipelage can be threatened though - but the city itself is easily defended
War would have put their minds on things other than shipwrighting, but no means no.
Haven't found any faraway islands yet. The Kyoto archipelage can be threatened though - but the city itself is easily defended
Balbes
Instigator
Mao knows CS and is friendly with some of the other AIs, so it's just a matter of time before everyone has CS. And a quite short time, I suspect.
Balbes
Instigator
Why do you think MM and HC don't want Civil Service and will only trade for Astronomy?
akots
Poet
I'm back to Houston and will be able to participate more actively just need a couple of days to read the thread. Looks like we are doing Ok. I might be ready to jump in by the end of the week.
My last pre-game thoughts.
Pop-rushers
Madrid – all clear, 5 in 9 scheme.
Barca – max production w/o workshops and smith is 2 (and I’d rather chop the wood and go for 1). So it goes start with 1 (suppose) - rush 2 – get overflow of (132+2*1-105 = 29) – too big for 2-pop rush, too little for 1-pop rush. So we return to previously discussed self-sustaining scheme, somewhat adjusted to fit Barca’s needs – rush 2 – get overflow to chariots and fix it – start next samurai - … - after regenerating 2 pop (~3,5 turns) rush again – move to chariot – finish it and start next with big overflow – fix overflow – start samurai – rush with 2 - … Sometimes (once for ~ every 4 samurai rushed ordinary way) overflow between chariots will become small enough to rush out-of-line samurai. Then again chariot and cycle continues.
Kyoto – now we have access to iron and happiness resources of mainland, the rush schedule should be revised. It is like Barca – low prod (2), high food (+16 fpt at pop 4+), so I propose the same schedule. There are 2 variants – either we abandon Kyoto and let it wallow in its unhappiness, or we pacify it with units. I’d start with 1st as long as our happiness resources allow, meanwhile investing overflow in Galleons, and then, as it hits the fan/limit – MP-scheme.
On ordinary cities pop-rushes
A city with +4 food (Edo, Yayoi, Satsuma (mined hill and riverside plains cottage),Cordoba (3 plains cottages)) can repop 2 citizens in 13-15 turns, depending on pop lowest in cycle (7-8). In between 2 pop-rushes the city should produce exact number of samurai (yes, monocultural farming), given 44 overflow hammers from slavery. This means
- (105-44)/13 ~ 5 hammers-per-turn for 1 samurai IB rushes
- (105*2 -44)/13 ~ 13 hpt for 2
- (105*3-44)/13 ~ 21 hpt for 3 - feasible only in Osaka after mining hill
All numbers are approximate, thus careful management is required to stay within the 89+ diapason when approaching next rushtime.
All cities with production falling far from 5, 13 and 21, should produce something else to remain in diapason - e.g. chariots to MP pop-burners Madrid and Barca.
How do cities fit:
Satsuma - 17 hammers in Steady State, pop oscillating 6-8. Will produce some extra stuff, more likely galleons than chariots
Edo - 13 at pop 7-9. I'd rather irrigate 1 plain and get 15 hpt with going for chariots 1-2 turns per cycle.
Yayoi - 13 hpt. Same, but not before we irrigate plain - and this will take some time, if ever happens
Cordoba - 11 hpt. Pity we spent all the wood instead of pop. This city, though, can later pop-rush galleons for Incan front.
A city with +2 food (Tokyo, Seville) needs same hpt as the turns # IBR is the same and same 44-hammer bonus.
Seville (after Forge and mine hill) - 16 hpt, will help with chariots (3 extra hpt ~ 1 chariot per cycle and 2 samurai + 1 pop-rushed). I prefer to make Seville +2 and mine instead of +4? As we get 88+4*13.5 = 142 hammers instead of 132 every 13 turns.
Tokyo - 17 hpt, pretty much the same
How many chariots per turn do we need? Exactly to pacify Madrid, i.e. 4/9. We get 2/13 from Edo, 3/13 from Seville, 3/13 from Tokyo – enough. No city should specialize on chariots. All cities produce Samurai.
I’ve left out Osaka as it is rather awkward, having high pop, high hammer output and high food surplus. For now I’d prefer it to grow and start working hill mine and oasis, +1 food from rice. Then you guys can make the calcs, as it will be your turns
Sorry for the long text, but now you can accompany akots in his painful studies
Pop-rushers
Madrid – all clear, 5 in 9 scheme.
Barca – max production w/o workshops and smith is 2 (and I’d rather chop the wood and go for 1). So it goes start with 1 (suppose) - rush 2 – get overflow of (132+2*1-105 = 29) – too big for 2-pop rush, too little for 1-pop rush. So we return to previously discussed self-sustaining scheme, somewhat adjusted to fit Barca’s needs – rush 2 – get overflow to chariots and fix it – start next samurai - … - after regenerating 2 pop (~3,5 turns) rush again – move to chariot – finish it and start next with big overflow – fix overflow – start samurai – rush with 2 - … Sometimes (once for ~ every 4 samurai rushed ordinary way) overflow between chariots will become small enough to rush out-of-line samurai. Then again chariot and cycle continues.
Kyoto – now we have access to iron and happiness resources of mainland, the rush schedule should be revised. It is like Barca – low prod (2), high food (+16 fpt at pop 4+), so I propose the same schedule. There are 2 variants – either we abandon Kyoto and let it wallow in its unhappiness, or we pacify it with units. I’d start with 1st as long as our happiness resources allow, meanwhile investing overflow in Galleons, and then, as it hits the fan/limit – MP-scheme.
On ordinary cities pop-rushes
A city with +4 food (Edo, Yayoi, Satsuma (mined hill and riverside plains cottage),Cordoba (3 plains cottages)) can repop 2 citizens in 13-15 turns, depending on pop lowest in cycle (7-8). In between 2 pop-rushes the city should produce exact number of samurai (yes, monocultural farming), given 44 overflow hammers from slavery. This means
- (105-44)/13 ~ 5 hammers-per-turn for 1 samurai IB rushes
- (105*2 -44)/13 ~ 13 hpt for 2
- (105*3-44)/13 ~ 21 hpt for 3 - feasible only in Osaka after mining hill
All numbers are approximate, thus careful management is required to stay within the 89+ diapason when approaching next rushtime.
All cities with production falling far from 5, 13 and 21, should produce something else to remain in diapason - e.g. chariots to MP pop-burners Madrid and Barca.
How do cities fit:
Satsuma - 17 hammers in Steady State, pop oscillating 6-8. Will produce some extra stuff, more likely galleons than chariots
Edo - 13 at pop 7-9. I'd rather irrigate 1 plain and get 15 hpt with going for chariots 1-2 turns per cycle.
Yayoi - 13 hpt. Same, but not before we irrigate plain - and this will take some time, if ever happens
Cordoba - 11 hpt. Pity we spent all the wood instead of pop. This city, though, can later pop-rush galleons for Incan front.
A city with +2 food (Tokyo, Seville) needs same hpt as the turns # IBR is the same and same 44-hammer bonus.
Seville (after Forge and mine hill) - 16 hpt, will help with chariots (3 extra hpt ~ 1 chariot per cycle and 2 samurai + 1 pop-rushed). I prefer to make Seville +2 and mine instead of +4? As we get 88+4*13.5 = 142 hammers instead of 132 every 13 turns.
Tokyo - 17 hpt, pretty much the same
How many chariots per turn do we need? Exactly to pacify Madrid, i.e. 4/9. We get 2/13 from Edo, 3/13 from Seville, 3/13 from Tokyo – enough. No city should specialize on chariots. All cities produce Samurai.
I’ve left out Osaka as it is rather awkward, having high pop, high hammer output and high food surplus. For now I’d prefer it to grow and start working hill mine and oasis, +1 food from rice. Then you guys can make the calcs, as it will be your turns
Sorry for the long text, but now you can accompany akots in his painful studies
I don't think all these calculations are really important. We can always switch between samurais, cats, chariots and galeons in the queue to make sure that we are at the right point when we need to poprush. Why we did it for Madrid, is just to see how efficent the chariot tactics was.
akots
Poet
Well, it seems complicated but actually I'm not sure in the benefit of all this. It might speed up the things but probably marginally. However, it is a good practice to get used to it and an interesting possibility to try for a multiplayer game. Probably it has to be a PBEM because this stuff takes time to be done accurately.
Balbes
Instigator
I think it's always better to plan ahead than not to plan. These calculations will do a great job of preventing any small mistakes. As Peanut and Ms.Behind have been failing to follow our score graph, it's more or less clear that we're competing against ourselves, with all the other teams in a quite close race for 2nd place. Let's invest the time left in this game into optimizing our performance and ultimately becoming better players.Obormot said:
Of course planning ahead is always better, but in this case I think the reward for wasting several hours calculating is so marginal that might not speed us up even by a single turn. This is definetely not something that I would try in a solo GOTM.
